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Old August 22nd, 2012, 04:19 PM   #1
Depeched
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Former East Prussia/ Ostpreu▀en/ Rytų Prūsija/ Prusy Wschodnie/ Восточная Пруссия. Places & heritage.

East Prussia


After WWII this part became part of Russia and Poland.
Memelland became part of Lithuania in 1923.



Main idea is

- add nowdays photos from cites, villages, towns other places from former East Prussia.
- note former, ethnic and current city, village, place name, current state.
- don't talk a lot about policy, just try to say historical facts.


I hope, together we will make intresting thread.
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>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA




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Old August 22nd, 2012, 04:41 PM   #2
Depeched
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This day I have, my own photos from current Lithuania and Poland.

Firstly I add photos from Lithuania, former Memelland

Towns:
Klaipėda/Memel
Pagėgiai/Pogegen
Šilutė/Heydekrug
Kuršių nerija (Curonian spit (en.)/Kurishe nehrung

Memelland area was part of ethnic Lithuania, till 1923, population was about:
50% lithuanians
50% germans

Photos I will add a little bit later
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>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA




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Old August 22nd, 2012, 04:54 PM   #3
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Klaipėda/Memel oldtown. Lithuania
During WWII a lot of city buildings were destroyed after war some of them, ruins were just demolished.

After war Klaipėda


http://www.ve.lt/uploads/img/catalog...-idomybiu2.jpg

Nowdays

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

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13.

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15.
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>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA




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Old August 22nd, 2012, 04:55 PM   #4
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16.

17.

18.

19.

20.

21.

22.

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24.

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28.

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30.
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>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA




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Old August 22nd, 2012, 04:57 PM   #5
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31.

32.

33.

34.

35.

36.

37.

38.

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43.

44.

45.
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>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA




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Old August 22nd, 2012, 04:59 PM   #6
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46. Main square

47.Monument for Simon Dach

48.

49.

50.

51.

52.

53.
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>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA




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Old August 22nd, 2012, 10:22 PM   #7
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Great post !!

Hope to see more pics from this forgotten old beautiful german region.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 11:57 PM   #8
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This thread will get locked in a few pages, mark my words
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 03:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cytt View Post
This thread will get locked in a few pages, mark my words
As long as the OP confines himself to posting pictures of the Lithuanian and Kaliningrad Oblast areas I don't forsee any problems whatsoever.

But should he venture any further south
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 10:02 AM   #10
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I think the introduction to this thread is more than basic. IMO, putting down the rich and diverse history of this region in 2-3 sentences is misleading or even shameful.

But I agree to wait and see what else the OP will come up with.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 10:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
I think the introduction to this thread is more than basic. IMO, putting down the rich and diverse history of this region in 2-3 sentences is misleading or even shameful.

But I agree to wait and see what else the OP will come up with.
I'd very much like to see more of his pictures myself.

Moreover, I'd like to see them all in the same thread as opposed to being scattered all over the place.

Your mileage may vary.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 10:40 AM   #12
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Can some moderator please close this thread! Poland didn't get mentioned enough by the OP.

PS: can the moderator please also close all threads about Silesia or Wroclaw until Germans, the Magdeburg Law, Bohemia, the Prussian Reforms, the Weimar Republic, the dialect "Gebirgsschlesisch" and the Schaffgotsch family get mentioned?!
I also have serious doubts about the Krakow threads who don't value the German citizenry in the late Middle Ages and the influence of Austrians enough.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 10:54 AM   #13
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Good points one and all
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 11:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beer and Football View Post


Good points one and all


Not really, because all threads about pre-war Polish Lwow, Wilno, Grodno, etc. are closed. BTW, I don't mind to read about German Breslau or Stettin (probably the best time for these cities).

PS. Austrians were responsible for stagnation of economic life in Krakow and decline of the city, so nothing to be thankful for.

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; August 23rd, 2012 at 11:29 AM.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 11:51 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post


Not really, because all threads about pre-war Polish Lwow, Wilno, Grodno, etc. are closed.
That's not to say that they should have been however.


Quote:
BTW, I don't mind to read about German Breslau or Stettin
Why then the problem with German Memel or K÷nigsberg?

You're aware, are you not, that the OP's map didn't even include the Gdańsk area.

Except for the Masurian lake district, most of the area shown on his map had an overwhelming German majority extending back to at least the late 1300's and up until 1945-46.


The OP described this area as follows:

Quote:
Former rich region in eastern side of Baltic sea.
Created on former balts and slavonics lands became one of the most beautiful part of Germany.
That sounds pretty accurate to me.


.

Last edited by Beer and Football; August 23rd, 2012 at 11:56 AM.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 11:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
Can some moderator please close this thread! Poland didn't get mentioned enough by the OP.
Excuse me, the suggestion of closing this thread came out from, let's say, the radical faction of Polish users.

Let the guy continue his valuable work, but vigilant eyes will be around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Not really, because all threads about pre-war Polish Lwow, Wilno, Grodno, etc. are closed.
Were they closed indeed? On what basis (if you can recall)?
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 12:42 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ja.centy View Post
Were they closed indeed? On what basis (if you can recall)?
Trolling (?), I have no idea. You tell me.

Why then the problem with German Memel or K÷nigsberg?

It's more complicated than you think. Prussians were not German, but Baltic tribes (the same as Lithuanians).

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_people

Masurians and Warmiaks were not German, but West Slavic Poles.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masurians

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warmiak

The combination of Poles, Lithuanians, Prussians and Germans (Teutonic Knights came to these lands after Polish princes invitation in 13th century) inhabited East Prussia.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Crusade

During nationalism wave in 19th-20th century incorrect term German Prussia became common.

---------------------------------------------

Old Prussian language:
Thawe nuson kas tu asse Andangon,
Swintits wirst twais Emmens;
Pergeis twais Laeims;
Twais Quaits audasseisin na Semmey, key Andangon.

Lithuanian language:
Tėve mūsų, kuris esi dangusu,
Švenskis vardas tavo;
Ateik karalystė tavo;
Būki tavo valia, kaip danguje, teip ir ant žemės.

Masurian language (different text, explaining Polish-German relations ):
Modre oczkie mamy,
na sie spoglondamy.
A co kom’ do tego
Kiedy sie Koehamy,

Kashubian language (bonus):
Ďjcze nasz, jaczi jes w niebie,
niech sŃ swiŃcy Tw˛je miono;
niech przińdze Tw˛je krˇlestw˛;
niech mdze Tw˛ja w˛l˘ jakno w niebie tak tÚż na zemi.

Do you find it similar to German language?
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Last edited by RS_UK-PL; August 24th, 2012 at 10:10 AM.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 02:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Why then the problem with German Memel or K÷nigsberg?

It's more complicated than you think. Prussians were not German, but Baltic tribes (the same as Lithuanians).
Agreed and Depeched said as much in his original post when he spoke of German Prussia being "created on former balts and slavonics lands".

I was under the impression that the Teutonic Knights either killed or ran off most the indigenous Prussians (and assimilated the rest) in fairly short order however.

In any case, the cities of K÷nigsberg and Memel were (if not founded by) built, as history today remembers them, by the Teutonic Knights and subsequent German settlers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL
Masurians were not German, but West Slavic Poles.
Agreed. Moreover I acknowledged as much in my previous post

Interesting enough, the majority of them voted to remain attached to East Prussia in a post WWI plebiscite however. Probably for religious reasons.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL
The combination of Poles, Lithuanians, Prussians and Germans (who came to these lands after 13th century) inhabited East Prussia.
But again, the Germans outnumbered the others most everywhere except the Masurian lake district and the rural areas of Memelland.

Keep in mind, we're discussing East Prussia, not West Prussia, Poznan or Upper Silesia, all of which were primarily (and in some cases overwhelmingly) Polish in character and composition at all times.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL
During nationalism wave in 19th-20th century incorrect term German Prussia became common.
In large part because after 1870 Prussia was a legally constituted part of Bismarck's Germany.

Your point about nationalism poisoning German/Polish relations is well taken however.

I have read that prior to such Poles, Germans, Lithuanians and others residing in what we now regard as Prussia saw themselves as Prussians first and Poles, Germans or whatever second.

The enduring mutual animosity only coming later.

Oddly enough, had the Germans in the West managed to unify in 1848 (without Prussian participation) this comradery, as it were, might well have endured for a bit... possibly even until the present.

Imagine that


.

Last edited by Beer and Football; August 23rd, 2012 at 02:38 PM.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 02:14 PM   #19
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Reakcjonistom z Bonn damy stanowczy odpˇr!!!
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 02:28 PM   #20
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On second thought, I deem this thread as a sign of the rising Lithuanian imperialism.

Forza Lietuva!

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