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Old September 3rd, 2012, 05:16 PM   #181
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Quote:
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And of course Charles X Gustav of Sweden, Charles XII of Sweden, tsar Peter the Great and Frederick the Great
Unfortunately, Peter ther Great didn't stay overnight

Oh, did I mention queen Ludwika Maria and Catherine Opalinska
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Old September 3rd, 2012, 05:37 PM   #182
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Oh, did I mention queen Ludwika Maria and Catherine Opalinska
Who cares about queens?
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Old September 4th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #183
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A small village of Katyčiai/Coadjuthen in Lithuania

image hosted on flickr

Katyčiai Coadjuthen by Alka48, on Flickr



(c)www.manosilute.lt





Lutheran church built in 1735
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Old September 4th, 2012, 07:03 PM   #184
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The Lithuanian is by far the best looking part today, and I'm quite impressed how well the heritage gets presented.

Nida (formerly Nidden) for example is a true gem again!






The cemetery was completely destroyed after WW2 by the Soviets, but now it looks like it never happened:



Even the typical wooden graves returned:



And the Curonian flags (German: Kurenwimpel) too:



Thomas Manns house is in perfect shape and today a museum:



The Protestant church, which was looted by the Soviets, was restored too (and *not* converted), although most Lithuanians are Catholics:



The old barges, which were scuttled by the Soviets, were salvaged:






Hats off, Lithuania!
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Old September 5th, 2012, 10:05 PM   #185
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Nope. Of course, some people had to start brawl here. Guys, can you just shut up and watch photos?
You talkin' to me?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
The Lithuanian is by far the best looking part today, and I'm quite impressed how well the heritage gets presented.
I wanted to make some sarcastic comment here, but will refrain this time. Let nice atmosphere in this thread continue.
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Old September 6th, 2012, 10:11 PM   #186
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I think karasek has the hots for his Lithuanian buddies and maybe they should get a room and let their love run wild...I know of a nice boutique hotel in Vilnius/Wilno...heartshaped bed, jacuzzi, yumm...maybe they'll ask us to join if we're nice
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old September 7th, 2012, 01:34 AM   #187
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They are just sad and want attention, because nobody like them. You know, like kids.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 08:31 AM   #188
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Simple but great psychoanalysis. Please continue.

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Old September 7th, 2012, 09:49 AM   #189
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I wanted to make some sarcastic comment here, but will refrain this time. Let nice atmosphere in this thread continue.
Or you could post some pics from Poland. Simply show me a village of the same size with an equally preserved and nourished heritage (reconstructed cemetery (graves + German inscriptions) in perfect condition, restored Protestant church, preserved and nourished folk art (Curonian flags, also with old inscriptions), remembrance of local non-Poles as part of the local identity, most buildings in good condition, and the new ones follow the traditional local style) and I will happily refrain from my judgement.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 11:59 AM   #190
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Or you could post some pics from Poland. Simply show me a village of the same size with an equally preserved and nourished heritage (reconstructed cemetery (graves + German inscriptions) in perfect condition, restored Protestant church, preserved and nourished folk art (Curonian flags, also with old inscriptions), remembrance of local non-Poles as part of the local identity, most buildings in good condition, and the new ones follow the traditional local style) and I will happily refrain from my judgement.
"Curonian flags, also with old inscriptions"
Curonian flags in Poland? Curonian lagoon is divided between Russia and Lithuania, so why Poles should have Curonian flags in Poland?


In Poland, you can find many Ducal Prussia coat of arms:
Coat of Arms of Goldap (from 1570, still in use)


Ducal Prussia - Great Duchy of Lithuania border post in Prostki/Prostken (oldest border post in Central-Eastern Europe, dating back to 1545)

And so on...

"Restored Protestant church"
I've seen few restored Protestant churches in Poland. Nevertheless, approximately 90% of Poles are belonging to the Roman Catholic Church, so you cannot really expect more.
The Evangelical Church in Gizycko/Lützen


"Reconstructed cemetery (graves + German inscriptions) in perfect condition"
Here's example (there will be probably more in the future, if young Poles will forgot about notorious massacres and war crimes caused by Germans):












Elbing/Elblag








"Most buildings in good condition"
No money = poor condition of buildings
Warmian-Masurian Voivodeship is one of the poorest regions in EU with GDP (PPP) per capita barely reaching 42% of average in EU.

"New ones follow the traditional local style"
And what style do you have in mind?

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; September 7th, 2012 at 06:31 PM.
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Old September 7th, 2012, 01:32 PM   #191
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Or you could post some pics from Poland. Simply show me a village of the same size with an equally preserved and nourished heritage (reconstructed cemetery (graves + German inscriptions) in perfect condition, restored Protestant church, preserved and nourished folk art (Curonian flags, also with old inscriptions), remembrance of local non-Poles as part of the local identity, most buildings in good condition, and the new ones follow the traditional local style) and I will happily refrain from my judgement.
The only place, as far as I know, in Poland where the ethnic and historical background of its inhabitants and villages/cities is recognized, is in the area around Oppeln.

On this map you can see where German got a 'Hilfssprache' between 2005 and 2009.



This is an example of the village Cisek. One of just three villages in Poland where ethnic Germans form the majority of the inhabitans. This does not mean they all speak german off course. They can all speak Polish and most of them probably speak it in everyday life. It means that they are ethnic germans, they want to keep the german tradtions and language in this area alive and thus want to be accepted as German (or sometimes Schlesien). They are 'Verbliebene', the people who fled after the war are called 'Vertriebene'.

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Old September 7th, 2012, 06:35 PM   #192
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I was just thinking of the Opolskie area of Poland where I did see restored German cemetaries and churches, sorry no pics. Germans are very welcome in Poland as is their culture, witness all the German schools in Warsaw.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old September 9th, 2012, 02:33 PM   #193
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Nice photos, later I'll add more my own photos again.
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>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA



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Old September 9th, 2012, 04:30 PM   #194
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Curonian spit nature. Lithuania















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>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA



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Old September 9th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #195
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Vecekrugo kopa - this dune is highest in all Curonian spit. 67,2 m

Views from this dune





lighthouse in man-made island in Curonian lagoon near Pervalka village

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>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
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Old September 9th, 2012, 04:47 PM   #196
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Preila (germ. Preil) village from Vecekrug dune



Restorated old cemetery



Crosses with lithuanian surnames



Typical house in this area

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Old September 9th, 2012, 06:29 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
Or you could post some pics from Poland. Simply show me a village of the same size with an equally preserved and nourished heritage (reconstructed cemetery (graves + German inscriptions) in perfect condition, restored Protestant church, preserved and nourished folk art (Curonian flags, also with old inscriptions), remembrance of local non-Poles as part of the local identity, most buildings in good condition, and the new ones follow the traditional local style) and I will happily refrain from my judgement.
[provocative]Why should Poles do it ?

Lithuanians were Hitler's buddies. Lithuanians slaughtered Polish and Jewih civilians during WWII and after the cold war Lithuanians ended up with a bigger country than they had in 1939, thx to the German invasion of Poland (Vilnius).

To make is short, Lithuanians have a much different sentiment about German heritage than Poles.[/provocative]

And still, you are so out of date, Karasek. Believe me, You won't find many countries like Poland, when it comes to protecting the heritage of a former enemy who killed millions of its people and destroyed pretty much all of their culural heritage. Maybe you do not know it but even politicians from Asia come to Poland to learn how one can deal with the past in such a "human" way.

Want some examples from Ostpreußen ?

Go there

http://forum.danzig.de/showthread.ph...iesenschritten



This is how the current Polish-German generation should deal with each other (and thx god already does). Germans move to their "Heimat" and younger Germans (together with Poles) protect the heritage...one can't ask for more.

Last edited by markus1234; September 19th, 2012 at 01:41 AM.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 06:54 PM   #198
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The voice of reason. Even more appreciated, as you seem to know the history, culture and psyche of both nations very well.
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Old September 9th, 2012, 08:47 PM   #199
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It makes me a German nationalist if I say that the international trading city Gdanzig didn't became rich because of the "Polish rule", but because of the access to the Polish market? And that the wealth of the Renaissance era can hardly be considered Polish when the city republic was almost completely independent, had only a Polish minority, and architecture and culture are closely linked to the other regions of the Hanseatic League, but not to Poland? I'm not even saying that the city was German!
And I'm also not the one who constantly brings up national categories here, and in other threads, and prefers one era of the city over the other.
Under the Polish crown Danzig (first of all) traded Polish grain to Western Europe. Poland was not (mainly) a "market", Poland was the "fuel" for Danzig. The market was Holland for example. Danzig was not kind of a Germanic hanseatic "island", it was (the most important) part of the Polish Vistula trade route. An other important city was Kazimierz Dolny for example or Zamosc.

Prussians ultimately stopped the whole procedure and Danzig became poor and marginalized. That's why there was not much of 19'th century architecture at all in Danzig.

Read this Karasek

http://www.zeit.de/2011/48/Interview-Friedrich

And first of all watch this (Schopenhauer quote)

http://www.rbb-online.de/kowalskitri...friedrich.html

You'll learn a lot.

Last edited by markus1234; September 9th, 2012 at 11:52 PM.
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Old September 10th, 2012, 04:39 AM   #200
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Lithuanians were Hitler's buddies.
You deserve a ban already.

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Lithuanians ended up with a bigger country than they had in 1939, thx to the German invasion of Poland (Vilnius).
Poles were Stalin's (happy? ) buddies and occupants. Occupied Belarusian, Ukrainian and Lithuanian territories were given to their true owners, but Stalin gave them territories they did not had in 1939.

Thousands of people come to Vilnius to learn how well Lithuanians respect Polish and Russian heritage of the city, how nice they deal with the heritage of the nations, who were murdering, exterminating Lithuanians, using ethnocide (Cultural Genocide) against them for centuries, who occupied their historical capital and the only city of European culture, who were manipulating people, against whom they used cultural genocide, so that they forgot who they where, were made mankurts, when people, who were living in the village Šaltiniai (lithuanian: wells, notice, not Źródło, but Szaltini) and had surnames ending -oit-, -el- (Gaigaloit, Pauksztiel, Balandzis, Wanagiel,- need to translate from Lithuanian?) were made believe, that it is a huge shame to be "pagan, dirty Lithuanian", that all catholics are "only Poles", that "Catholicism is Polish faith", that "God doesn't understand the language of dirty pagans and only Polish speakers go to Heaven" and all the Lithuanian schools were closed down, cultural organizations, newspapers, Lithuanian language Masses and so on, banned.
This all was started by Poles already in the 15th century, carried brutally by Russians in 18-19th and by the polish clergy, then again by Polish authorities in the 20th.
I sometimes go to the villages of Vilnius, Šalčininkai district, to Belarussian districts of Voranava, Oshmiana and there are thousands of people living in the villages with Lithuanian names (on Belarussian teritory as few exemples: Kiemelishki, Padeguti, Poviloiti, Tovzginiany, Debesi, Stulgi, Shunelishki, Smilgi, Azhuboli, Azhukolni, and so on), with the surnames like Żemoic, Żwirbliel, Pauksztiel, Żigimont, Waiszwilo and so on. They speak Russian, 90% do not know Polish, but believe they are Poles (they were persuaded- Catholic=Pole, because of " "polska" wiara"). Very sad situation and You again use these poor people for your complexes, to show "how Polish" Wilno and its region is. Lamentable.
If you are interested, I could tell you what Germans were. To start with, read the biography of Georg Sauervein and learn how many cultural organizations, newspapers Lithuanians had there, about the Masses in Lithuanian (Lithuanian language Masses were prohibited in Vilnius in 1737 by Polish clergy).

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You'll learn a lot.
You will learn even more after reading "Dyskusja nad odbudową Gdańska" . It only depends on You, will you be after the reading anyway, despite the facts, very proud of how Poles rebuilt Gdańsk or a little bit shame.

Last edited by vilniusguide; September 10th, 2012 at 04:52 AM.
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