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Old May 1st, 2016, 12:23 PM   #2121
husyta
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Yes, German name originating/stolen from the Balts. That's how I see it and won't be arguing further about it.
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Old May 5th, 2016, 01:19 PM   #2122
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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Recently, I read "The Duchy of Warsaw, 1807-1815: A Napoleonic Outpost in Central Europe" by Jaroslaw Czubaty. It seems that the Duchy of Warsaw was most ethnically homogeneous Polish state since the Piasts' Poland. According to the census of 1810, the decided majority (83%) of the 4,334,000 inhabitants of the Duchy of Warsaw were ethnic Poles.

Area: 157,194 km²
Total population (1810): 4,334,00
Poles: 83%
Jews: 7%
Germans: 6%
Lithuanians and Ruthenians: 4%

The overwhelming majority of the population were Roman Catholics. Among the remaining religious and confessional groups, the most prominent, apart from Jews, were Lutherans (8.3%). In a country that was overwhelmingly rural, the greatest concentrations of urban population, amounting to 18.6% of the whole, were located in Warsaw, Poznan and Bydgoszcz Departments. In these departments the urban population was 24% to 25.5%. Main cities of the Duchy were Warsaw, Poznan, Kalisz, Torun, Lublin, Krakow and Sandomierz.

Map of the Duchy of Warsaw (1811)

Source

10 groszy coin (minted in the Duchy of Warsaw)


"Der Telegraph" (1806) about organising Polish troops, e.g. from a former Pomeranian voivodeship by Trapczynski and Malbork/Marienburg voivodeship by Lipinski.


In 1812, the Duchy of Warsaw put into the field an army of nearly 100,000 soldiers, more than the Army of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth ever numbered.


A selection of paintings showing the events of 1806-1809 (Krakow, Torun, Gdansk and Poznan)





On 6 November 1806, generals Dabrowski and Wybicki arrived in Poznan, enthusiastically greeted by locals singing "Poland Is Not Yet Lost". "Poland Is Not Yet Lost" was one of the most popular patriotic songs in the duchy, stopping short of becoming that entity's national anthem.

Triumphal gate designed by Jakub Kubicki erected in 1809 (Warsaw)


List of the Sejm members in 1811















Source

First session of Central Government established by Poles in Galicia (1809)

Source

Galicia was not incorporated into the Duchy of Warsaw in spite of local support.

The land of my other half's ancestors, ethnocultural region known as Kociewie, as well as other parts of Eastern Pomerania were under Polish administration between 1806 and 1807. These territories were ceded to Prussia under the terms of the treaty of Tilsit (1807).

An interesting letter...


...and...


...and one more...


...and about Silesia...



-----------------------------------



That's correct.

Interestingly, some early Polish chroniclers, such as Wincenty Kadlubek called Prussians "Gets". Bolesław I the Brave was known as "Regni Sclavorum Gottorum sue Polonorum". Gallus Anonymous speaks of the Sarmatians as Getae – probably meaning the Prussians. The Greater Poland Chronicle speaks of the Getae as Russians. The Chronicle of the Priest of Dukla discusses the Goths basically as a variant of Slavs. Various Frankish Annals (Borna duke of the Guduscani) refer to certain Slavic tribes in the Balkans as Goths. The original Lithuanian cognate for the Belarusians is gudai.

BTW, Ptolemy wrote: "The Greater Venedae races inhabit Sarmatia along the entire Venedicus bay (...) Lesser races inhabit Sarmatia near the Vistula river. Below [heading North from] the Venedae are the Gythones (...) Among those we have named to the east: below [heading North from] the Venedae are the Galindae, the Sudini (...)".

Soon we should know if the ancient "Gythones" were genetically related to the Prussians, and WTH were these "Venedae".

Ibrahim ibn Ya’qub about the language of the Prussians (ca.965 AD):


The language of the Prussians was similar to Yotvingian and Lithuanian according to the Polish chronicler Jan Dlugosz (1415-1480):
Another book that I found very interesting is "Cnotliwy Litwin ku wiadomośći Braćiey swey Narodu Litewskiego (...)" written in 1592 by Lithuanian Chryzostom Wołodkowicz, unhappy to say the least with terms of the Union of Lublin and Polish expansion into territories formerly held by the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (Livonia, Volhynia, Podlachia). Among other things he mentions that (Old) Prussians and Lithuanians belong to the same nation.

Source

PS. In terms of DNA I expect Medieval Old Prussians to cluster somewhere close to Lithuanians if they were supposedly one nation in the past. BTW, in recent study "a clear signal of Polish admixture in the East of Denmark, coinciding with historical Polish settlements in the region before the Middle Ages" was found (source). Perhaps something to do with Harold Bluetooth’s Polish mercenaries (source). That could also be in times of this Polish princess who became the queen of Denmark:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Świętosława

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigrid_the_Haughty

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; May 7th, 2016 at 08:11 PM.
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Old May 7th, 2016, 09:54 AM   #2123
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Lidzbark Warmiński/Heilsberg, Warmia














Reszel/Rößel, Warmia


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Old May 7th, 2016, 11:09 AM   #2124
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Quote:
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Roman Catholic (!) church in Warpuny/Warpuhnen, Masuria




WW1 monument




Quote:
G. GLOWIENKA
F. ZARNETZKI
F. STURMOWSKI
J. PIPLACK
R. WEISSNER
M. GLOWIENKA
R. FALLAK
H. WISCHNIEWSKI
K. PICHOTTKA
G. HEYDASCH
E. SCHELLONG
G. GEINIG
O. STABBA
F. HÜBNER
K. WLOTZKA
E. LIEBELT
P. JORZIK
P. SCHIEMANN
A. CHOCHOLEK
R. GRANITZA
H. HEYDASCH
R. BORRIES
D. GÖRKE
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Old May 10th, 2016, 07:43 PM   #2125
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Fascinating history
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Old May 11th, 2016, 01:08 PM   #2126
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Pasłęk/Preußisch Holland Castle














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Old May 11th, 2016, 04:51 PM   #2127
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Paslek is such an unfortunate urban planning and design mess. The layout was preserved, partly, it's main square was completely removed, urban blocks were replaced with apartments and only some historical structures were preserved. I feel so bad for such a quaint and lovely little town.
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Old May 21st, 2016, 12:39 PM   #2128
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Dom Pojednania/House of Reconciliation in Sorkwity/Sorquitten, Masuria




Edgar Kirschniok attends a ribbon cutting ceremony









http://sorkwity.wm.pl/85140-355782,O...h,2228951.html
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Old May 21st, 2016, 02:41 PM   #2129
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Warcislaw VII of Pomerania offered Poland alliance against Teutonic Knights (1390)

Source

Boguslaw VI and Swietobor of Pomerania offered Poland alliance against Teutonic Knights (1395)

Source

Peace of Thorn/Torun (1411)

Source

Peace of Brześć Kujawski (1435)

Source

Prussian Confederation foundation act (1440)

Source

Prussian Confederation offered to incorporate Prussia into the Kingdom of Poland (1454)

Source


Source


Source

Eric II of Pomerania reconciled with the king of Poland (1466)

Source

The Second Peace of Thorn/Torun (1466)

Source


Source

Polish Central Archives of Historical Records
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Old May 24th, 2016, 01:39 PM   #2130
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Szczecinki/Szczeczinken, Masuria




WW1 memorial plaque

Quote:
Emil Alexy
Aug. Buberreck
Herm. Balzer
Fritz Bannasch
Otto Bannasch
Johann Bernecker
Karl Belusa
August Buberrek
Gustav Buberrek
August Czylmik
Fritz Dombrowski
August Dwojakowski
Friedrich Dwojakowski
Ludwig Dybus
Franz Domass
Ludwig Dybus
Adolf Dudda
Fritz Dusay
Max Dusay
Paul Dzikonski
Fritz Guthold
Franz Härich
Otto Himwert
Gust. Koss
Friedr. Konopka
Gust. Kowalzik
Franz Knoch
Gust. Knoch
Joh. Krupinski
Karl Krusko
Franz Kütza
Ernst Kulessa
Hermann Kullack
Fritz Kupczyk
August Lapschiess
August Lyss
Otto Lyss
Richard Lyss
Gust. Nientkewitz
Jak. Nowak
Aug. Ollech
Franz Polatzek
Paul Polatzek
Ad. Radzio
Fritz Reuter
Fr. Rieck
Fr. Romanowski
Gust. Romanowski
Max Romanowski
Julius Schütz
Ludwig Schütz
Gustav Siegmund
Otto Schwarz
Paul Schwarz
Friedr. Sawitzki
Albert Struwe
Herm. Sych
Adam Tertel
Franz Tertel
Herm. Tertel
Friedr. Trochim
Lud. Ulkowski
Gustav Well
Ernst Weidekamm
Friedr. Weidekamm
Karl Wieczorek
Friedrich Wrobel
Otto Zander
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Old May 24th, 2016, 01:53 PM   #2131
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Source

It seems that most Germans from the eastern territories of the former German Reich have Slavic and Baltic roots.

German-Dutch dialects in 1937 (according to Werner König)

Source

The area in which Old High German (pre-modern German) was spoken around 962 AD

Source
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Old June 14th, 2016, 01:10 PM   #2132
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86 silver Roman coins minted in 1st-2nd centuries AD found in forest near Zalewo (perhaps related to the ancient Gythones or Aestii tribes)



Source
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Old June 21st, 2016, 01:32 AM   #2133
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East Prussian Y-DNA haplogroups (80 samples) can be found in this thread:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...#post132605394

Haplogroup frequencies:

R1a ---- 43.8% (35)
N1c ---- 23.8% (19)
R1b ---- 15.0% (12)
I1 ------ 7.5% (6)
I2 ------ 5.0% (4)
other --- 5.0% (4)

Here is a map showing birthplaces of oldest known ancestors:

https://s31.postimg.org/tky8fgp5n/Map_East_Prussia.png



It seems that South-Western part of East Prussia had very low N1c:

All of N1c among those 80 Y-DNA samples were within this territory:

Interestingly all I2a samples are from area without any N1c samples:



All 19 samples of N1c below:

kit 142919 Wilhelm E. Spangehl born in 1819 in Ragnit (Neman), hg. N1c-L1025
kit N61024 Jurgis Lunczyns born in 1715 in Mosteiten (Slawjanskoje), hg. N1c-L1025
kit 217892 Johann Groening born in 1800 in Horsterbusch (Krzewiny), hg. N1c-L731
kit E13080 Johannes Reihs born in 1800 in Bischofstein (Bisztynek), hg. N1c-L1025
kit E9638 August Darge born in 1870 in Bartenstein (Bartoszyce), hg. N1c-L1025
kit 202401 Jan Łozowski born in 1850 in Lötzen (Giżycko), hg. N1c-L1025
kit 179556 Michael Bannuscher born in 1729 in Schoenfeld (near Braunsberg), hg. N1c-L550
kit 193848 Jons Maczullatis born in 1745 in Skaisgirren (Skajzgiry), hg. N1c-L550
kit N42695 Julius Baltrusch born in 1874 in Campinschken (near Tilsit), hg. N1c-L550
kit 284236 Wannagat born in 1880 in Göritten (Puszkino) or Stallupönen (Nesterow), hg. N1c-M178
kit 147092 Johann Bever born in 1800 in Ryabinowoje (Kaliningrad Oblast), hg. N1c-M178
kit 343953 Pranciškus Lukoševičius, born in Wisztyniec (Vištytis), hg. N1c-M232
kit B42972 Johann Kuschnereit born in 1800 in Eszerischken, hg. N1c-L1025
kit N58382 Dargil, born ca. year 1344 in Gut Dargels (Dargiele) near Migehnen (Mingajny), hg. N1c-L1025
kit 183188 Andrzej Cholewa, born in 1815 in Bełcząc (near Bialla/Gehlenburg), hg. N1c-L1025
kit N23762 Andrzej Romanski, born in 1758 in Łapka (Warmia, near Olsztyn), hg. N1c-L1025
kit 173926 Baltazar Hilinski, born in 1866 in Rakowo (near Tiegenhof), hg. N1c-L1025
kit E2482 Martin Ossowski, born in 1729 in Marienburg (Malbork), hg. N1c-L1025
kit E8045 Dawid Barteit, born in Kolonie Bismarck near Heydekrug, hg. N1c-L1025

=====
=====
BTW:

Here 100 samples from pre-war Silesia (including 96 with exact locations):

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...#post132930698

Haplogroup frequencies:

R1a ---- 54
I1 ------ 13
R1b ---- 11
J2 ------ 5
E1b ---- 4
G2a ---- 3
N1c ---- 3
J1 ------ 2
G2b ---- 2
I2a ----- 1
T ------- 1
Q ------- 1

And a map including birthplaces of oldest known ancestors for 96 samples:

https://s31.postimg.org/m55t8jgor/Map_Silesia.png



Historical border between Upper and Lower Silesia was more or less like this:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-y0xiVjGh3m...ślask.jpg

If we apply that line of divide, we can see lower % of R1a in Lower Silesia (as expected):

Upper Silesia - 48 samples of which 30 R1a = 62,5%
Lower Silesia - 48 samples of which 23 R1a = 47,9%

However:

Grünberg region - 11 samples of which 4 R1a = 36,4%
Rest of Lower Silesia - 37 samples of which 19 R1a = 51,4%
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Old June 21st, 2016, 01:42 AM   #2134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
German-Dutch dialects in 1937 (according to Werner König)
Compare with the map of haplogroups in East Prussia.

When it comes to the German-speaking part of East Prussia:

1) All N1c samples are from dialectal area 7

2) all I2a samples from dialectal area 28
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Old June 21st, 2016, 02:39 AM   #2135
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Combined East Prussian and Silesian samples (from pre-war inhabitants):



Frequencies of R1a haplogroup in present-day (post-1945) inhabitants:



Sampling locations for present-day frequencies (Münster has only 7,8% and Mainz only 8,4%):

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Old June 22nd, 2016, 12:39 AM   #2136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by husyta View Post
Yes, German name originating/stolen from the Balts. That's how I see it and won't be arguing further about it.
Stolen? Lol bullshit

Prussia is baltic, Prussia was founded in Königsberg. Prussia later moved more western...
First Prussia wasnt part of the Germanbund...

tipical polish nationalchauvinistic...
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Old June 22nd, 2016, 03:19 AM   #2137
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Quote:
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Stolen? Lol bullshit
Yes, stolen by German crusaders:

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Old June 23rd, 2016, 03:10 PM   #2138
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Ongoing renovation works in Frombork/Frauenburg, Warmia







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Video about renovation of presbytery in Reszel/Rößel, Warmia
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Old June 23rd, 2016, 05:18 PM   #2139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Domen123 View Post
Yes, stolen by German crusaders


Londinium has been stolen by britain too, of course, or did romans stolen it?

Before slaves there have been Neanderthales and others too, so you have stolen poland too...

Doesnt make sensce, you are choosing your "hour zero", but there have been a historie before and after allways too.
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Old June 24th, 2016, 12:27 AM   #2140
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[QUOTE=Ludi;133602372 tipical polish nationalchauvinistic... [/QUOTE]
Maybe it sounds nationalchauvinistic but it isn't exclusively polish speciality
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