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Old July 7th, 2016, 01:15 AM   #2161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intervention View Post
Unfortunately, I agree. The paint on brick looks atrocious, whereas before at least the stucco provided an even coverage.
I can't agree with you guys. This kind of painting the bricks first of all looks good and secondly it's likely to be proper. Just looks how they paint brick houses with red ocher in old towns in Denmark or south Sweden.
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Old July 7th, 2016, 12:29 PM   #2162
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"Elewacje bramy zostały odtworzone w nawiązaniu do jej wyglądu z okresu barokowego z rekonstrukcją cienkowarstwowej wyprawy tynkarskiej i kolorystyką określoną na podstawie zachowanych reliktów kolorów: czerwień żelazowa i czerń. W przejeździe bramnym pozostawiono odsłonięte zachowane wątki gotyckie. Stolarka okienna i skrzydło drzwiowe zaaranżowane zostały w nawiązaniu do ustalonej kolorystyki elewacji z okresu baroku: stolarka okienna – szarość, ościeżnica drzwiowa - zabytkowa z XIX w. – kolor ugrowy, skrzydło drzwiowe - ugrowo-brązowy. Zachowane i odsłonięte oryginalne ceglane barokowe dekoracje architektoniczne (przyczółki, gzymsy, pilastry) poddane zostały zabiegom konserwatorskim."

http://www.bisztynek.pl/asp/pl_start...b=13&subsub=77

Town plan


Town gate in 1958




...and before renovation in 2011
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Old July 10th, 2016, 06:47 PM   #2163
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Olsztyn. (Allenstein)




























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Old July 10th, 2016, 06:52 PM   #2164
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Beautiful Klaipeda. (Memel)




























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Old July 11th, 2016, 06:34 AM   #2165
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Prussia is beautiful. The German architecture has been well preserved. Nice to see it wasn't completely destroyed out of spite. Thank you for pictures from old Memel and Allenstein.
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Old July 27th, 2016, 03:55 PM   #2166
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"W warnijski chałupsie" - recently opened museum in Gietrzwałd/Dietrichswalde, Warmia









Source: gwarminska.pl
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Old July 27th, 2016, 04:01 PM   #2167
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Description of Elbingschen Mundart (High Prussian Elbing dialect) by August Schemionek, 1881


http://dlibra.bibliotekaelblaska.pl/...r_id=&lp=1&QI=

Google translate:
"With Poland Elblag entertained regular Berlehr. The Elbinger sent their son to learn the Polish language there, whereas Poland theirs here [e.g. Gymnasium Elbingense] sent to the same Zwede what "from the Vistula" was called. So many Polish word naturalized one, although since 1818, when Russia increased tariffs and passenger transport difficult, the trade with Poland diminished and thus the Polish language almost completely extinguished here."
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Old July 30th, 2016, 06:15 PM   #2168
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Sovetsk. (Tilsit)


Before


After


















































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Old July 31st, 2016, 10:48 PM   #2169
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Baltic versus Slavic ancestry among East Prussians with R1a haplogroup

Problems with genetics of Old Prussians are that they no longer exist as a separate ethnos, and that their modern genetic descendants for the most part no longer live in East Prussia. We also do not have any ancient DNA samples from the region, so we can't be sure whether West Baltic (including Old Prussian) Y-DNA was more similar to modern East Baltic or to modern Slavic. However, we do have FTDNA customers with ancestors from East Prussia. Of course not all of them were descended from Old Prussians, many were descended from various groups of immigrants who flooded into East Prussia throughout history.

Nevertheless, here are 32 pre-1914 carriers of R1a from East Prussia (see the map of birthplaces posted below):

Many thanks to Artur Martyka from Family Tree DNA team for great help in distinguishing Baltic from Slavic subclades:

Typically East Baltic (modern distribution) and probably East Baltic (12 = 37.5%):

kit 329192 - Z92>Z685>YP270>YP351>Y16755>YP4296
kit 221446 - Z92>Z685>YP270>YP351>Y9081>YP350
kit 157553 - Z92>Z685>YP270>YP351>Y9081>YP350
kit N2278 - Z92>Y4459>YP617>YP1700
kit 162556 - Z92>Y4459>YP5520

kits E4688 & N43077 (two samples) - Z92+

kit 161829 - S24902>YP561>YP4094>YP4078

kit 71994 - CTS1211>YP1034>YP4258

kit 85285 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP235>YP234>YP295>L366>YP5223
kit E10339 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP951>Y17619

kit 426239 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>YP968>YP969>YP4335

Typically (modern distribution) East Slavic subclades (3 = 9.4%):

kit 316853 - Z92>Y4459>YP617>YP573>YP569>YP682
kit 415060 - Z92>Y4459>YP617>YP573>YP569>YP1256>YP4846

kit 175710 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y2902>Y2910>Y2915

Typically West Slavic and probably West Slavic subclades (6 = 18.8%):

kit N1840 - M458>PF7521>L260>YP256>YP254>Y4135>Y14244
kit B14462 - M458>PF7521>CTS11962>L1029>YP263>Y2921>Y2914>Y20359

kit 145992 - M458+
kit 31553 - M458>PF7521>L260+
kit N5198 - M458>PF7521>CTS11962>L1029+

kit 200664 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>S18681>YP315>YP314

Typically West Slavic, and specifically Pomeranian, subclades (3 = 9.4%):

kit 165792 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP235>YP234>YP238>L365>YP243>YP389>YP4669
kit E9666 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP235>YP234>YP238>L365>YP243>YP269>Y6956>L670
kit N7393 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>YP237>YP235>YP234>YP238>L365>YP243

Other typically Slavic (I guess "Pan-Slavic" ???) subclades (8 = 25%):

kit N18451 - CTS1211>YP343>YP340
kit 153224 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y2613
kit 275076 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y2613>Y2609>Y2608>YP613
kit 330940 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>L1280>FGC19283>YP1448
kit E4464 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>L1280>FGC19283>YP1448>FGC19273
kit 2546 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>S18681>Y12463 >YP1428*
kit 131361 - CTS1211>Y35>CTS3402>Y33>CTS8816>Y2902>Y3226>Y 3219>YP1144>PH3519-B2

kit 137403 - M458>PF7521>CTS11962>YP515

==================

Other samples of East Prussian R1a (not included due to low-resolution SNP data):

kit E6115 - M512+
kit E10941 - M198+
kit E2656 - M198+
kit N2864 - M417+
kit 145455 - M417+

==================

Map with birthplaces of oldest known ancestors for all R1a samples, plus N1c and I2a samples:

https://s31.postimg.org/8x3wzkvrv/Old_Prussian_R1a.png



List of N1c samples (19) included in the map:

kit 142919 (N1c-L1025)
kit N61024 (N1c-L1025)
kit 217892 (N1c-L731)
kit E13080 (N1c-L1025)
kit E9638 (N1c-L1025)
kit 202401 (N1c-L1025)
kit 179556 (N1c-L550)
kit 193848 (N1c-L550)
kit N42695 (N1c-L550)
kit 284236 (N1c-M178)
kit 147092 (N1c-M178)
kit 343953 (N1c-M232)
kit B42972 (N1c-L1025)
kit N58382 (N1c-L1025)
kit 183188 (N1c-L1025)
kit N23762 (N1c-L1025)
kit 173926 (N1c-L1025)
kit E2482 (N1c-L1025)
kit E8045 (N1c-L1025)

List of I2a samples (4) included in the map:

kit B1542 (I2a-P37)
kit E2677 (I2a-M423)
kit E7698 (I2a-M423)
kit N4664 (I2a-M423)
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Old August 1st, 2016, 12:25 AM   #2170
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Surnames added:

https://s31.postimg.org/mfwjkq5or/Ol...a_surnames.png



Haplogroup I2a:

kit E2677 Karl L. Nath born in year 1820 in Osterode (Ostróda)
kit B1542 Gottfried Golembiewski, born in 1790 in Riesenburg (Prabuty)
kit E7698 Michael Rimek born in 1723 in Ortelsburg (Szczytno)
kit N4664 Adalbert Rutkowski, born in 1730 in Grutta (Gruta)

Haplogroup R1a:

kit 145992 - Martin Kiehl, born in year 1760 in Stobiec (Stobbendorf)
kit 165792 - Johann M. Sommerfeld, born in 1750 in Tiegenort (Tujsk)
kit N2864 - Michael Flatau, born in 1800 in Alt Christburg (Stary Dzierzgoń)
kit 275076 - Georg Gottlieb Gutt, born in 1729 in Brodnica
kit 137403, Felyx Pruhs, born in year 1826 in Bratjan
kit 329192 Friedrich Mattern, born in Liebstadt (Milakowo)
kit 161829 Johann Pieczkowski, born in 1824 in Rosenau (Różnowo)
kit N1840 Mikel Bujnicki, born in 1844 in Rogonnen (Rogajny)
kit E9666 Jakob Pawellek born in 1853 in Ortelsburg (Szczytno)
kit 175710 Georg Glass born in 1810 in Babanten (Babięty)
kit 221446 Ludwig Ermis, born in 1822 in Gruenwalde (near Ortelsburg)
kit 31553 Samuel Liedtke, born in 1853 in Kaltwangen (Kalwagi)
kit 71994 Franz Pallaschke, born in 1883 in Buddern (Budry)
kit 162556 Otto Ernst Kloth, born in 1702 in Deutsch Wilten (Ermakovo)
kit 153224 Leopold Lau, born in 1867 in Kompehnen (Niwy)
kit 200664 Simon Netke, born in 1686 in Königsberg (Kaliningrad)
kit 85285 Friedrich Lichtenstein born in 1870 in Königsberg (Kaliningrad)
kit E4464 Karl Labinsky born in 1840 in Trempen (Novostreyovo)
kit E10941 Jablonski, born b4 WW2 in Königsberg (Kaliningrad)
kit B14462 Karl A. Rosenbaum born in 1830 in Heiligenbeil (Mamonovo)
kit 316853 August Czeranna, born in 1864 in Gross Schöndamerau (Trelkovo)
kit 2546 Johann Piasetzki, born in 1860 in Sensburg (Mrągowo)
kit E6115 Klaus born in 1935 in Königsberg (Kaliningrad)
kit E2656 Michael Gruenhagen, born in 1750 in Bartenstein (Bartoszyce)
kit 330940 Friedrich Malesha, born in 1800 in Soldahnen (Soldany)
kit N2278 Krystyan Lamka, born in 1769 in Lapienus (Łapinóż)
kit N5198 Peter Wróblewski, born in 1830 in Marienwerder (Kwidzyń)
kit N18451 Frank J. Zalewski, born in 1858 in Gotschalki (Goczałki)
kit 131361 Jan Jablonowski, born b4 WW2 in Prioma (near Soldau/Działdowo)
kit N43077, NN born b4 WW2 in Panemune (Sovetsk)
kit 157553 Tomasz Szypulski, born in 1738 in Szypułki-Zaskórki (near Neidenburg)
kit E4688 Stanislaw Holynski born in 1780 in Kutten (Kuty)
kit 145455 Scheffrahn, born in Rastenburg (Kętrzyn)
kit N7393 Reimer born in 1720 in Hoppenau (now part of Elbląg/Elbing)
kit 415060 Skubinna born in 1720 in Loyen (Łoje)
kit E10339 NN, born b4 WW2 somewhere in East Prussia
kit 426239 Kalinowski born in 1878 in Riesenwalde (Stańkowo)

Haplogroup N1c:

kit 142919 Wilhelm E. Spangehl born in 1819 in Ragnit (Neman)
kit N61024 Jurgis Lunczyns born in 1715 in Mosteiten (Slavyanskoye)
kit 217892 Johann Groening born in 1800 in Horsterbusch (Krzewiny)
kit E13080 Johannes Reihs born in 1800 in Bischofstein (Bisztynek)
kit E9638 August Darge born in 1870 in Bartenstein (Bartoszyce)
kit 202401 Jan Łozowski born in 1850 in Lötzen (Giżycko)
kit 179556 Michael Bannuscher born in 1729 in Schoenfeld (near Braunsberg)
kit 193848 Jons Maczullatis born in 1745 in Skaisgirren (Skajzgiry)
kit N42695 Julius Baltrusch born in 1874 in Campinschken (near Tilsit)
kit 284236 Wannagat born in 1880 in Göritten (Pushkino) or Stallupönen (Nesterov)
kit 147092 Johann Bever born in 1800 in Ryabinovoye (Kaliningrad Oblast)
kit 343953 Pranciškus Lukoševičius, born in Wisztyniec (Vištytis)
kit B42972 Johann Kuschnereit born in 1800 in Eszerischken (now in Kaliningrad Oblast)
kit N58382 Dargil, born ca. 1344 in Gut Dargels (Dargiele) near Migehnen (Mingajny)
kit 183188 Andrzej Cholewa, born in 1815 in Bełcząc (near Bialla/Gehlenburg)
kit N23762 Andrzej Romanski, born in 1758 in Łapka (near Olsztyn/Allenstein)
kit 173926 Baltazar Hilinski, born in 1866 in Rakowo in East Prussia
kit E2482 Martin Ossowski, born in 1729 in Marienburg (Malbork)
kit E8045 Dawid Barteit, born in Kolonie Bismarck near Heydekrug (Šilutė)
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Old August 1st, 2016, 06:56 PM   #2171
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Nice pictures of Tilsit. Can't you just stick to arcitecture in this thread?
(The other stuff is so boring and off topic)
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Old August 7th, 2016, 12:25 AM   #2172
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Chernyakhovsk. (Insterburg, Įsrutis)






















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Old August 9th, 2016, 12:47 PM   #2173
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"Gesta Hammaburgensis Ecclesiae Pontificum" (written between 1073 and 1076 by Adam of Bremen)


"Of the islands that lie near the Sclavis [Slavs], we understand that three are of considerable importance. The first of them is called Fembre [Fehmarn]. It is opposite the Wagris [Wagiri], so it can be seen from Aldinburg [Oldenburg], like the one named Laland [Laaland]. The second, opposite the Wilzos [Wilzi], is possessed by the Rani or Runi, the most powerful of the Sclavorum [Slavic] peoples, without whose consent nothing may lawfully be done in matters of public concern; so much are they feared on account of their familiarity with the gods, or rather demons, whom this people holds in greater veneration than do the others. Both these islands, too, are infested by pirates and by very bloodthirsty robbers who spare no one who passes that way. For they kill all those whom others are accustomed to sell. The third island, that called Samland, is close to the Ruzzis [East Slavs] and Polanis [Poles]. It is inhabited by the Sembi or Pruzzi [Prussians], a most humane people, who go out to help those who are in peril at sea or who are attacked by pirates. Gold and silver they hold in very slight esteem. They have an abundance of strange furs, the odor of which has inoculated our world with the deadly poison of pride. But these furs they regard, indeed, as dung, to our shame, I believe, for right or wrong we hanker after a martenskin robe as much as for supreme happiness. Therefore, they offer their very precious marten furs for the woolen garments called faldones. Many praiseworthy things could be said about these peoples with respect to their morals, if only they had the faith of Christ whose missionaries they cruelly persecute. At their hands Adalbertus, the illustrious bishop of the Boemiorum [Bohemians], was crowned with martyrdom. Alhtough they share everything else with our people, they prohibit only, to this very day indeed, access to their groves and springs which, they aver, are polluted by the entry of Christains. They take the meat of their draft animals for food and use their milk and blood as drink so freely that they are said to become intoxicated. These men are blue of color, ruddy of face, and long-haired. Living, moreover, in inaccessible swamps, they will not endure a master among them.

(...)

Hericus [Eric], the king of the Sueonum [Swedes], entered into an alliance with Bolizlao [Boleslav], the most powerful king of the Polanorum [Poles]. Bolizlaus [Boleslav] gave his daughter or sister [Sigrid the Haughty or Swietoslawa] in marriage to Herico [Eric]. Because of this league the Dani [Danes] were jointly attacked by the Sclavis [Slavs] and the Sueonibus [Swedes]. In alliance with the third Ottone [Otto] the most Christian king Bolizlaus [Boleslav] subjected all Sclavaniam [Slavia] and Ruziam [East Slavs] together with the Pruzzos [Prussians], at whose hands Saint Adalbertus had suffered martyrdom. Bolizlaus [Boleslav] at this time translated his [Adalbert’s] remains into Poloniam [Poland]."

http://www.jassa.org/
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Old August 10th, 2016, 12:37 PM   #2174
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Protestant Church in Szczytno/Ortelsburg, Masuria








Quote:
Gottlieb Latza
Emanuel Schutter
Gottlieb Rosmanek
Jacob Zielinski
Christoph Grzesnÿ
Michael Macieÿ
Johann Mroczek
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Old August 10th, 2016, 04:49 PM   #2175
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Jan Nowowiejski, honorary citizen of Barczewo/Wartenburg (Warmia), son of Feliks Nowowiejski passed away on August 6th...


Back in 2015, President of Poland Andrzej Duda met family of a Polish activist Jan Baczewski (born in Gryźliny/Grieslienen, Warmia)...



http://wpolityce.pl/historia/263657-...ry-w-niemczech
http://wpolityce.pl/polityka/263661-...nie-prezydenta

Jan Baczewski's house in Rangsdorf was destroyed by fire in 2010, it was never rebuilt.

"Blauen Haus" before 2010...


Jan Baczewski memorial plaque revealed in 2011...



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Old August 19th, 2016, 11:38 PM   #2176
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In the Kaliningrad region, archaeologists have found a seal of the princes of Rus`. It is the first evidence of official relations of Rus with the Prussian lands.

The discovery was made on the site of an ancient Prussian settlement, in the layer dating from the 12th century.



Scientists have found that the seal belonged to Vsevolod Mstislavich, the Prince of Novgorod in 1117-1136.

Such seals were placed on important trade, customs or gift documents.

In the same place was found a pectoral cross in Scandinavian style, typical for the Orthodox Christians of the Northern Rus of that period.



Perhaps, the Prussian merchants who had gone to Novgorod and other cities of Northern Rus lived here. Apparently one of them accepted Orthodoxy, or that cross belonged to someone from Novgorod.
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Old August 20th, 2016, 01:41 AM   #2177
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Sovetsk. (Tilsit)









These buildings look like they were beautiful and charming at one time - they surely could be again. Is restoration work being done? I assume that the city is in Russia now?
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Old August 20th, 2016, 12:25 PM   #2178
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It's rather unlikely anything's being done in that regard. There might be a few renovated tenement houses scattered all over town, but as you can imagine these are the exception rather than the rule. I've been to Wroclaw (former Breslau) a while ago and while it definitely isn't East Prussia it suffers from the same problems. They have thousands of once beatiful Gründerzeit tenement houses and the vast majority of them is in a desperate need for a complex restoration. And I assume it's exactly the same story in most former German cities in Poland and Kaliningrad. It's hard to tell whether it's lack of will or money or whatnot. I once read an article written by a Dutch journalist residing in Warsaw and his building had exactly the same problems. And while the owner association had enough money to completely renovate the building they simply couldn't agree on anything. And this kind of veto-culture may be the root of the problem here.
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Old August 20th, 2016, 06:01 PM   #2179
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not being able to agree on anything is from what I have seen at the root of a lot of problems in this part of the world, but it exists elsewhere too.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old August 21st, 2016, 11:06 PM   #2180
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Location: Berlin
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Originally Posted by Domen123 View Post
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You and your haplo-secondname-fetish...



The settlement area of western Baltic Prussians , as well as the eastern Baltic , was originally much larger than in historical times and is continuously occupied by archaeological finds up to the conquest by Slavs in the first millennium AD .
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