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Old November 24th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #321
Depeched
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Chystie Prudi/Tollmingkehmen. Kaliningrad district
Tollmingkehmen name had Lithuanian roots - Tolminkiemis.

Quote:
Till XVIII c. area was inhabited by only Lithuanians. After plague, the area was inhabited of colonists from Germany.XVIII c. In parish of Tollmingkehmen lived only about 1000 Lithuanians. First church here was built in the end of XVI c. 1600 - 1621 here served one of the pioneers of Lithuanian literary language - Jonas Rėza. Place famous for Kristijonas Donelaitis (latin. Christian Donalitius). He wrote the first classic Lithuanian language poem, The Seasons (Lithuanian: Metai). He worked here from 1743, rebuilt church, built school. He was also buried here.
wikipedia.com

Guesthouse in 1890


http://www.bildarchiv-ostpreussen.de

Tollmingkehmen church

Ruins of Tollmingkehmen church in 1957


www.autc.lt

Quote:
Tollmingkehmen (Lith. Tolminkiemis) Church is an architectural, cultural and historical monument of particular importance to Lithuania. It was built in 1756-1764 by the Evangelical Lutheran pastor and founding father of Lithuanian secular poetry Kristijonas Donelaitis. On 28 May 1756, he himself consecrated the cornerstone of the church where he served as a priest for several decades. While in Tollmingkehmen, Donelaitis wrote the first Lithuanian work of fiction - Metai (The Seasons).

In 1950, the church was demolished. In 1964, on the occasion of the 250th anniversary of the birth of the poet, an idea was raised to restore it. In 1971-1979, the church was rebuilt and the Memorial Museum of K. Donelaitis was opened in it at the effort and cost of the Lithuanian SSR. The author of the restoration project was the architect Napoleonas Kitkauskas. Photographs and descriptions received from Germany and Poland helped to restore a realistic view of the church.

The plan of the building - rectangle (measurements 22.7x14.3 m). The front façade is dominated by a tower with the upper wooden tier characteristic of Classicism style; the east extension to the church houses the sacristy. The walls of the building are brick; the interior space is three-nave; the central nave is covered with a curved barrel vault. The church windows are adorned with the stained-glass by the artist Antanas Garbauskas featuring the scenes from the daily life of the peasants depicted in the poem Metai by Kristijonas Donelaitis. There is a concrete-covered spacious crypt underneath the floor on the east side of the building where the poet was re-buried on 14 June 1979. The crypt was mounted in the same place where archaeologists discovered the poet's remains while exploring the interior of the church in 1967.

The rebuilt church of Tollmingkehmen is a monument to the classical author of Lithuanian literature Kristijonas Donelaitis and the first European-level example of cultural heritage, restoration and reconstruction in Kaliningrad Oblast.
www.autc.lt


www.alkas.lt

Grave of Donelaitis

wikipedia.com


Photo by Pablonis from ************

Town urbanely was raped

Photo by Pablonis from ************
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Old November 24th, 2012, 06:55 PM   #322
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Poles or Lithuanians would have taken so much better care of areas where Kaliningrad Oblast is today

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Originally Posted by Varsben View Post
In contrast to Poles (and Lithuanians), who have always been present in areas of East Prussia and had various connections to that land, until WW2 the Russians never had anything to do with what is now the Kaliningrad Oblast. Therefore, perhaps they don't feel any imperative to restore the German, Lithuanian and Polish heritage there.


PS. More about Poles and Lithuanians in Königsberg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6....C3.B6nigsberg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...jan_gospel.gif
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ewiec_1793.jpg

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; November 24th, 2012 at 10:43 PM.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 07:32 PM   #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
It's more like it. Depeched, can you please provide me with the source of this map? I'm just slightly confused about the Lithuanian part (polish name of the city Wilno and Lithuanian-speaking majority?).

[IMG]http://i45.************/2ppm0k3.jpg[/IMG]

If the map was prepared in 1847 (75 years after partitions of Poland), it means that 300,000 nationalistic, polonophobic, German-speaking colonists have been already settled in the eastern parts of Prussia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germani...ion_of_Germany) and forced germanisation process was already implemented. Term "Polaken" on the map is very offensive towards Poles, so I'm almost certainly sure that German-speaking area (maybe Lithuanian and Russian as well) is again to some degree extended One more question, what about area below Wilno like Nowogrodek, Grodno, Slonim, etc.? Based on the map above, these territories were inhabited by Russian-speaking population?

PS. We're getting there. Soon everything will be clear Now you should understand why Poles are offended when somebody is talking about always German or exclusively German West/East Prussia The other thing is that Poles really don't mind if the large population of Royal/Polish Prussia or Ducal Prussia was German-speaking before partitions of Poland, because people living over there were loyal to the Polish Crown (like for example Johannes Hevelius or Nicolaus Copernicus), unlike people who were settled there in the 19-20th century.
Well, speaking about estern part of East Prussia, this part of territory for a long time was regarded as a "Lithuania Minor". Untill 19 cent. midle. the majority of peaple were lthuanian speaking. Many of them were emigrants from Žemaitija + descendants of old prussians. After +/- 1850, the number of lithuanian speaking population "on paper" increasingly dropt off. I guess the main reason was that bilingual people, that means people, who might speak lithuanian+german, were considered to be germans and during census they were "put among" (baltic) germans. I think the same problem was with poles during germanization.
But we should emphasize that lithuanian speaking people mostly lived in coutrysides and cities were populated almost by germans, only Tilžė (Tilsen), Ragainė (Rognit?), Karaliaučius (Konigsberg), and few other cities had a lithuanian population, only I don't know exact numbers. There is one book, published in sovietic time, only i don't count/rely on ideological based books.

Quote:
Prussian Lithuanians
Prussian Lithuanians living in East Prussia experienced similar policies of Germanisation. Although ethnic Lithuanians had constituted a majority in areas of East Prussia during the 15th and 16th centuries (from the early 16th century it was often referred to as Lithuania Minor), the Lithuanian population began to shrink in the 18th century. Plague and subsequent immigration from Germany, notably from Salzburg, were the primary factors in this development. Germanisation policies were tightened during the 19th century, but even into the early 20th century the territories north and south/south-west of the Neman River contained a Lithuanian majority. Kursenieki experienced similar developments, but this ethnic group never had a large population.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germani...an_Lithuanians
About Vilnius, Grodno region I wrote (tried to explain) in the other thread.
The line between russian/ruthenian speaking and baltic territories can be drawn somewhere where now is Minsk, souther part of Grodno.


Interesting that after WW2, about 1946, communist from Moscow (particularly Stalin) wanted to attach present day Kaliningrad oblast to Lithuania. Local lithuanian communists under A.Sniečkus, did not accept such "gift". And probably they took a right decision, because we would have a "powder-keg" today. Who knows...

Hm..now i am looking to this map and it seems quite interesting. For instance Bauskės district in present day Latvia (in map, this territory looks like a estonian/ugro-finic speaking distric in ethnic latvian territory which is coloured the same colour as Estonia ), near nowaday Lithuania. It is true that there lived ugro finic people and a person who made this map probably knew this fact.
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Old November 24th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosp View Post
Well, speaking about estern part of East Prussia, this part of territory for a long time was regarded as a "Lithuania Minor". Untill 19 cent. midle. the majority of peaple were lthuanian speaking.
Based on your maps, Lithuanians were majority in the north and east part of East Prussia, on the territories of today's Lithuania and also, they lived in Belarus and Latvia. So why there are only ca.4 million Lithuanians in the world today (and just 2,679,600 in Lithuania, one of the lowest density in Europe, 46 people per km2). What is the reason behind this absolutely incredible negative growth rate of ethnic-Lithuanian population in the last ~150 years?

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; November 24th, 2012 at 08:55 PM.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 12:55 AM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post


Poles or Lithuanians would have taken so much better care of areas where Kaliningrad Oblast is today





PS. More about Poles and Lithuanians in Königsberg: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6....C3.B6nigsberg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...jan_gospel.gif
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ewiec_1793.jpg
Omg..very small part about Lithuanians. Need to improve.
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Old November 25th, 2012, 06:06 AM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Varsben View Post
In contrast to Poles, who have always been present in southern areas of East Prussia and had various connections to that land, until WW2 the Russians never had anything to do with what is now the Kaliningrad Oblast. Therefore, perhaps they don't feel any imperative to restore the German heritage there.

Another possible reason of their lack of enthusiasm in this regard, might have been the memory of what Germans had done with Russian heritage wherever they set foot, for example in such cities like Volgograd (former Stalingrad), Voronezh, Smolensk, Orel, Belgorod, ... etc., ... etc., ...
When will people get over it?
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Old November 26th, 2012, 12:13 AM   #327
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Map of Lithuanians, and Old Prussians in Prussia in 1525-1701

Dark green - the vast majority of Lithuanians (Lietuvininkai)
Green - about 50 % of Lithuanians, other part Old Prussians and Germans
Yellow - about 50% of Germans, other part Old Prussians and Lithuanians
Dark purple - about 50 % of Old Prussians, other part Germans and Lithuanians
Light purple - the vast majority of Germans



1701-1871


http://www.************/forumas/showt...3+Pr%C5%ABsija
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Old November 26th, 2012, 12:41 AM   #328
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Pre war views from Stallupönen,Ebenrode/Nesterov









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Old November 26th, 2012, 05:51 AM   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeched View Post
Map of Lithuanians, and Old Prussians in Prussia in 1525-1701

Dark green - the vast majority of Lithuanians (Lietuvininkai)
Green - about 50 % of Lithuanians, other part Old Prussians and Germans
Yellow - about 50% of Germans, other part Old Prussians and Lithuanians
Dark purple - about 50 % of Old Prussians, other part Germans and Lithuanians
Light purple - the vast majority of Germans



1701-1871


http://www.************/forumas/showt...3+Pr%C5%ABsija
Depeched, thanks for posting some great images and the maps. Questions...what is the difference between and "old prussian" versus german and lithuanian?

Can you give an explanation of the colors in the second map?

Thanks!
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Old November 26th, 2012, 11:07 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by UrbanMyth View Post
Depeched, thanks for posting some great images and the maps. Questions...what is the difference between and "old prussian" versus german and lithuanian?

Can you give an explanation of the colors in the second map?

Thanks!
Old Prussians (nation of Balts, as survived Lithuanians, Latvians) were local people of Prussia. More:

Quote:
The Old Prussians or Baltic Prussians (German: Pruzzen or Prußen; Latin: Pruteni; Latvian: Prūši; Lithuanian: Prūsai; Polish: Prusowie) were an ethnic group, autochthonous Baltic tribes that inhabited Prussia, the lands of the southeastern Baltic Sea in the area around the Vistula and Curonian Lagoons. They spoke a language now known as Old Prussian and followed pagan Prussian mythology.
During the 13th century, the Old Prussians were conquered by the Teutonic Knights, and gradually assimilated over the following centuries. The former German state of Prussia took its name from the Baltic Prussians, although it was led by Germans who had assimilated the Old Prussians; the old Prussian language was extinct by the 17th or early 18th century.[1]
The land of the Old Prussians consisted approximately of central and southern East Prussia — the present-day Warmian-Masurian Voivodeship of Poland, the Kaliningrad Oblast of Russia. [2]

And more here:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians



Map of Baltic tribes:





Prussians assimilated with Lithuanians and Germans



Dark green - Dark green - the vast majority of Lithuanians (Lietuvininkai)
Green - most of Lithuanians (Lietuvininkai)
Yellow - 50% of Lithuanians (Lietuvininkai)
Dark yellow - Minority of Lithuanians (Lietuvininkai)


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Old November 27th, 2012, 10:17 AM   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeched View Post
Ragnit/Neman. Kaliningrad district
In Lithuanian: Ragainė

http://www.autc.lt/Public/HeritageOb...px?id=640&oe=2


http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/01/54/78/38_big.jpg


http://photos.wikimapia.org/p/00/01/26/69/16_big.jpg

Castle in 1957


www.autc.lt


www.autc.lt


www.autc.lt

Sadness thing is that castle was blown up during soviet times
There is/was a plan (I haven't heard a long time about it anymore in Kaliningrad news papers) to rebuild this castle, with the help of Rosatom, which wants to build a plant a few miles away from this village.

That would be great, but I guess they aren't going to do that anymore since there isn't anything written about it anymore in the news papers or online for the last few years.....
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Old December 2nd, 2012, 01:01 AM   #332
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Soviet army occupies East Prussia


http://pinterest.com/pin/774124907428133/

Russians in Konigsberg 1945


http://pinterest.com/obblue/wwii-east-front/
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Old December 2nd, 2012, 01:14 AM   #333
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Damn, East-Prussia was once so civilized and beautiful... and then now.
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Old December 2nd, 2012, 01:19 AM   #334
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Well during that time East Prussia wasn't that civilized.
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Old December 2nd, 2012, 02:15 AM   #335
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Documentary about The End of East Prussia

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Old December 21st, 2012, 07:29 PM   #336
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Winter in Memel/Klaipėda. Lithuania



Photo by Ramunas Zablackas from Facebook: We Love Lithuania



Photo by Ramunas Zablackas from Facebook: We Love Lithuania
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 02:40 PM   #337
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Konigsberg/Kaliningrad. Russia
About 1979

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Old January 3rd, 2013, 11:29 PM   #338
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What's going in Klaipėda area,part of Minor Lithuania. Memelland. Lithuania
Yearly flood in Nemunas delta











Photos from: www.grynas.lt
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Old January 5th, 2013, 05:44 PM   #339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Based on your maps, Lithuanians were majority in the north and east part of East Prussia, on the territories of today's Lithuania and also, they lived in Belarus and Latvia. So why there are only ca.4 million Lithuanians in the world today (and just 2,679,600 in Lithuania, one of the lowest density in Europe,
RS_UK I will give him the better map, this is the only map which could satisfy 2,7 mln. Lithuanians right now. Don't you know that even the Ukrainians are actually Lithuanians, but unfortunately they do not now it!

Even "Marjebnurgas" sounds like the ancient heritage of Lietuva ! Probably they founded the town.

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Old January 9th, 2013, 01:55 PM   #340
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Old buildings in Klaipėda,Memel. Lithuania

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