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Old January 26th, 2013, 08:56 PM   #421
TheReconstructer
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Quote:
The Sovjet Union did, and in the final months of the war they and the later Warschau-pact did some horrible war crimes and commited genocide in East-Germany.
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Originally Posted by Kirov88 View Post
War was inevitable because of the treaty of Versailles. And the allies started the bombing of cities.
I've got two terrible and neonazistic quotes by our awesome and historically correct *cough cough* friend Kirov88 where I don't know any answer for. So I decided to let these two Star Trek guys answer these absolutley good quotes, here they come:
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Old January 26th, 2013, 09:51 PM   #422
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The nazi's started by declaring the war, committing the most horrendous crimes in human history, bombing western Europe and murdering as many people as possible in eastern Europe.
It was Great Britain, not Germany, that declared war which started the dominos falling into a global conflagration.

Horrendous crimes, as Kirov pointed out, were not limited to one side or the other. The millions of holocaust victims were by far not German citizens. "bombing western Europe"? You mean London? Facts before Germanophobia helps.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 10:23 PM   #423
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Originally Posted by Kirov88 View Post
War was inevitable because of the treaty of Versailles.
Please tell us what was wrong with this treaty? Thanks to this treaty germans stopped occupy a lot of terrorities (not enough) in Europe. This is wrong?

BTW. I'll not write here about germans frauds in plebiscites... (in Mazury, Warmia, Górny Śląsk).
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Old January 26th, 2013, 10:38 PM   #424
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This is a picture tread about Eastern Prussia, right?

Gerdauen
image hosted on flickr
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Old January 26th, 2013, 10:39 PM   #425
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Forget to say that this picture was taken in 1938
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Old January 27th, 2013, 12:51 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
It was Great Britain, not Germany, that declared war which started the dominos falling into a global conflagration.
And what was the reason for british declaration of war?
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Old January 27th, 2013, 01:08 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
It was Great Britain, not Germany, that declared war which started the dominos falling into a global conflagration.
Oh no!
It was Great Britain + France, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa and India who were the unprovoked aggressors in this war.

3 september 1939 - never forget

Cool story bro ...

Ps. Elbląg canal from BBC Michael Palins New Europe
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Old January 27th, 2013, 03:04 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by Kirov88 View Post
The Sovjet Union did, and in the final months of the war they and the later Warschau-pact did some horrible war crimes and commited genocide in East-Germany.
Really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_cri...e_Soviet_Union

Quote:
Rapes were allowed in practice by the German military in eastern and southeastern Europe, while northern and western countries were relatively spared.[67][68] Historian Szymon Datner wrote in his work about the fate of POWs taken by the Wehrmacht, that thousands of Soviet female nurses, doctors and field medics fell victim to rape when captured, and were often murdered afterwards.[38] Ruth Seifert in War and Rape. Analytical Approaches wrote: "in the Eastern territories the Wehrmacht used to brand the bodies of captured partisan women – and other women as well – with the words "***** for Hitler's troops" and to use them accordingly."[69]
Quote:
According to the historian Regina Mühlhäuser the Wehrmacht also used sexual torture and undressing in numerous cases of interrogations.[74]
Estimates regarding the rape of Soviet women by the Wehrmacht reached up to 10,000,000 cases, with between 750,000 and 1,000,000 children born as a result.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 03:19 AM   #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
It was Great Britain, not Germany, that declared war which started the dominos falling into a global conflagration.

Horrendous crimes, as Kirov pointed out, were not limited to one side or the other. The millions of holocaust victims were by far not German citizens. "bombing western Europe"? You mean London? Facts before Germanophobia helps.
Have you ever heard of the Blitz? the mass bombing of British cities?
Facts before trying to rewrite history helps.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 03:47 AM   #430
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Have you ever heard of the Blitz? the mass bombing of British cities?
Facts before trying to rewrite history helps.
I see you conveniently avoided addressing your factual errors.

The Blitz did not take place in "western Europe".

While Germany invaded Poland, GB's declaration of war for that aggression triggered the mad rush to global conflict. No declarations of war existed prior to Great Britain doing so. Many historians concur that had GB not done so (and in fact never followed through with assistance to Poland anyway), the expansion to a global conflict may not have occured.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 08:13 AM   #431
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This thread is interesting to me because I have read East Prussian diary: a Journal of Faith by Hans von Lehndorff .

There are many references to places in the book that are referred to here: Königsberg, Allenstein, Deustch-Eylau, Tilsit, Insterburg, Eydtkuhnen, Januschau, Pillau and Marienburg. It is wonderful to see photos and read comments about these places. A very tragic and moving story.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 12:15 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorok View Post
Funny that you say that *they* did it and keep ignoring that the allies didn't do it.

You will never hear me say that the Nazi's and the Wehrmacht didn't commit war crimes or genocide but that doesn't mean that the allies didn't do it.

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Eur...mber_127900829
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Old January 27th, 2013, 12:58 PM   #433
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Soviets killed 5-7 million Ucrainians in 1936 alone.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 01:54 PM   #434
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Soviets killed 5-7 million Ucrainians in 1936 alone.
Odo I'm pretty sure U had "great starvation" on your mind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
All "numbers" are approximate of course, til present day.
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Old January 27th, 2013, 06:29 PM   #435
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Ruins of stadthalle in 1979

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Old January 27th, 2013, 06:41 PM   #436
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Why now you debate who was worse during WWII bombings. It was terrible war from both sides, need to talk what was worse after WWII with heritage protection.

Kaliningrad/Konigsberg
More: Neurossgärtner church built in XVIIc. Ruins was exploded in about 1972.

Photo: 1943-1944
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Old January 28th, 2013, 08:09 AM   #437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyR View Post
This thread is interesting to me because I have read East Prussian diary: a Journal of Faith by Hans von Lehndorff .

There are many references to places in the book that are referred to here: Königsberg, Allenstein, Deustch-Eylau, Tilsit, Insterburg, Eydtkuhnen, Januschau, Pillau and Marienburg. It is wonderful to see photos and read comments about these places. A very tragic and moving story.
Thanks for the reference. I for one will seek to find the book and read it.

Another great book about the area and its tragic history is "Walking Since Daybreak" by Modris Eckstein. Also very moving; a real and true biography of the largest ethnic cleansing horror in human history.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 08:37 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
Thanks for the reference. I for one will seek to find the book and read it.

Another great book about the area and its tragic history is "Walking Since Daybreak" by Modris Eckstein. Also very moving; a real and true biography of the largest ethnic cleansing horror in human history.
Yes - I have read it and I completely agree. Modris Eksteins is one of the truly great living authors, and the son of a Latvian pastor who knows the Baltic world intimately.

As a side note, have you read Rites of Spring by Eksteins? Absolutely superb.

I hope you enjoy East Prussian Diary. Try to find the translation by Constantine Fitzgibbon; it is the best.

(I wish I could read German - he wrote several other books but they are only available in German )

Have you read Forgotten Land: Journeys Among the Ghosts of East Prussia by Max Egremon? It was just published last year. It is also excellent.
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Old January 28th, 2013, 07:28 PM   #439
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Yes - I have read it and I completely agree. Modris Eksteins is one of the truly great living authors, and the son of a Latvian pastor who knows the Baltic world intimately.

As a side note, have you read Rites of Spring by Eksteins? Absolutely superb.

I hope you enjoy East Prussian Diary. Try to find the translation by Constantine Fitzgibbon; it is the best.

(I wish I could read German - he wrote several other books but they are only available in German )

Have you read Forgotten Land: Journeys Among the Ghosts of East Prussia by Max Egremon? It was just published last year. It is also excellent.
I JUST bought that book at Barnes & Noble last week. I'm happy to hear it's good. I just started the first chapter!
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Old January 29th, 2013, 12:05 AM   #440
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After demolition of royal castle in same place:
...buildings of "house of Soviets" in 1979.

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