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Old January 29th, 2013, 07:48 PM   #441
TheReconstructer
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Time to demolish that piece of crap and rebuilt the Schloss and surroundings.

By the way, just asking. I heard they have plans to rebuild the Koenigsberger Schloss, but since a few years I don't hear other websites, news forums etc. talk about that project anymore. Does anybody have news about the reconstruction?
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Old January 30th, 2013, 10:43 AM   #442
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Primorsk/Fischausen. Kaliningrad d. (Russia)

1930

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Old January 30th, 2013, 09:44 PM   #443
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Konigsberg fachwerk

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Old January 31st, 2013, 02:26 AM   #444
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So many unique photos being shared! Thank you very much, great thread!
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Old January 31st, 2013, 09:05 AM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chadoh25 View Post
I JUST bought that book at Barnes & Noble last week. I'm happy to hear it's good. I just started the first chapter!
I hope you enjoy it. I was very excited when I heard that it was published. There are not many books in English about the former East Prussia.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 09:07 AM   #446
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Quote:
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Why now you debate who was worse during WWII bombings. It was terrible war from both sides, need to talk what was worse after WWII with heritage protection.

Kaliningrad/Konigsberg
More: Neurossgärtner church built in XVIIc. Ruins was exploded in about 1972.

Photo: 1943-1944
1972

Very sad. That is (was) a beautiful church.
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Old January 31st, 2013, 11:04 PM   #447
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After demolition of royal castle in same place:
...buildings of "house of Soviets" in 1979.
It is not in the same place. There is an empty lot in the place of the former Castle (with archeological works in the former dungeons; in 2006 it costed 10 RUR to enter and sightsee) whereas the "House of Soviets" is situated approx. 200 metres to the East, in the area of former Old Town (Altstadt, Stare Miasto).
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Old February 1st, 2013, 03:48 AM   #448
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Ethnic territories in current Kaliningrad district (fromer East Prussia) till 1700

Green -vast of majority of Lithuanians
Faded green - Lithuanians about 50%, other Germans and old Prussians
Blue - 50 % of Old Prussians


[IMG]http://www.************/forumas/picture.php?albumid=1077&pictureid=34652[/IMG]
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Old February 1st, 2013, 09:52 AM   #449
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How many Lithuanians live in Kaliningrad Oblast today? Are there enough people to repopulate the whole area shown on the map above?
Wiki: "According to the 2010 Census, the oblast population is 941,873. Kaliningrad Oblast is the fourth most densely populated federal subject in Russia, with 62.5 persons/km2. Almost none of the pre–World War II Lithuanian, Polish, or German population remain in Kaliningrad Oblast."

If Lithuanians are still majority there, I agree that this area should be attached to Lithuania. And it should be exactly the same with some lands inhabited by Polish majority, e.g.West Belarus.


I don't know Russian, but as I understand Russian Army General Nikolai Yegorovich Makarov (on November 9, 2012, Makarov was sacked from his position of Chief of the General Staff of the Armyed Forces of the Russian Federation by Russian president Vladimir Putin) suspects that EU will attack Belarus and some parts of Russia (including Kaliningrad Oblast).

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; February 1st, 2013 at 11:35 AM.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 11:49 AM   #450
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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post


How many Lithuanians live in Kaliningrad Oblast today? Are there enough people to repopulate the whole area shown on the map above?
Wiki: "According to the 2010 Census, the oblast population is 941,873. Kaliningrad Oblast is the fourth most densely populated federal subject in Russia, with 62.5 persons/km2. Almost none of the pre–World War II Lithuanian, Polish, or German population remain in Kaliningrad Oblast."

If Lithuanians are still majority there, I agree that this area should be attached to Lithuania. And it should be exactly the same with some lands inhabited by Polish majority, e.g.West Belarus.
Actually i don't have accurate numbers of Lithuanians minority in KO, but there are about 180 000 lithuanian schoolchild (2011).
On the other hand, mostly all lithuania were ex expatraite, political prisoners. Commies did not allowed them to came back to Lithuania after the death of stalin, only to a few territories near Lithuania.
Btv, lithuanians are widespreand. There are no territory (region, city etc) in which they would constitute a majority.

i will try to find an interesting article in english about Stalins plans to attacha present day KO to Lithuania SSR.

I don not think that attachment of territories or the changes of present day states borders at the moment should be in a political agenda, a task/goal and so on. Particularly if we are speaking about such states like Russia, Belarus.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 01:49 PM   #451
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Actually i don't have accurate numbers of Lithuanians minority in KO, but there are about 180 000 lithuanian schoolchild (2011).
source?

As of the 2010 census in Russian Federation, 0.03% of the population that disclosed their ethnicity is ethnically Lithuanian - 31,377. There are approximately 10.000 Lithuanians living in Kaliningrad Oblast.

"180 000 lithuanian schoolchild" is a big exaggeration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogra...#Ethnic_groups
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Old February 1st, 2013, 07:51 PM   #452
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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post



If Lithuanians are still majority there, I agree that this area should be attached to Lithuania. And it should be exactly the same with some lands inhabited by Polish majority, e.g.West Belarus.
The desire to gain back lost lands and reinstate/reconnect ethnic majorities to their homelands is exactly what led to WWII. The theory of "self determination" born out of WWI did not work so well when attempted to be put into practice.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 08:08 PM   #453
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The desire to gain back lost lands and reinstate/reconnect ethnic majorities to their homelands is exactly what led to WWII. The theory of "self determination" born out of WWI did not work so well when attempted to be put into practice.
Could you please tell me where Germans or Russians were majority in Poland before invasion in 1939?


Some actions of Germans and Russians before WW2:
Sonderfahndungsbuch Polen was prepared in 1937 (it identified more than 61,000 members of Polish elites: activists, intelligentsia, scholars, actors, former officers, and others, who were to be interned or shot)
The Polish Operation of the NKVD in 1937-1938 (it resulted in the sentencing of 139,835 people and the execution of 111,091 Poles)
Polenaktion in 1938
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Old February 1st, 2013, 09:09 PM   #454
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Quote:
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Could you please tell me where Germans or Russians where majority in Poland before invasion in 1939?
Your chart is unclear, but the German majority in Danzig and substantial percentage of population in the contested "baltic corridor" never wanted to be separated from Germany and had been resisiting the Versailles dictates for 20 years. This was the catalyst that led to armed hostilities in 1939.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 09:26 PM   #455
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Quote:
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substantial percentage of population in the contested "baltic corridor" never wanted to be separated from Germany
Where did you read this? Any source?

In 1931 the proportion of Germans in Pomerania (where the Corridor was located) was 10.09% (190,324) and in "always German" Posen/Poznan Voivodeship, 7.39% (173,130).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_census_of_1931

And now for comparison, Šalčininkai district municipality, Vilnius district municipality, Voranava district.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 09:47 PM   #456
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It's shocking how powerfull German/nazi propaganda was. A lot of people still believe that somehow territories gained by Germany during the partitions of Poland were German ethnically. For some the reborn Poland of 1918 was somehow unnatural. The division of Germany and Prussia existed since its very beginning until the partitions and the Germans didn't have a custom of ethnic cleansing back then so the Polish population remained.
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Old February 1st, 2013, 10:37 PM   #457
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It's shocking how powerfull German/nazi propaganda was. A lot of people still believe that somehow territories gained by Germany during the partitions of Poland were German ethnically. For some the reborn Poland of 1918 was somehow unnatural.
And 17.789.287 ethnic Poles living in Second Polish Republic in 1921, shortly after WW1, must be for these people really one of the great truly unexplained mysteries of the world. Where did they come from on "always German" soil?
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Old February 1st, 2013, 10:43 PM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
Your chart is unclear, but the German majority in Danzig (...)
Since when the Free City of Danzig was a part of Interwar Poland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
(...)and substantial percentage of population in the contested "baltic corridor" never wanted to be separated from Germany and had been resisiting the Versailles dictates for 20 years. This was the catalyst that led to armed hostilities in 1939.
Bull-f00king-shit.

Check this out:

- The Partitions of Poland, late XVIII century



- Germanisation of Poles during the Partitions

- Expulsion of Poles by Germany

- Prussian deportations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyk View Post
It's shocking how powerfull German/nazi propaganda was. A lot of people still believe that somehow territories gained by Germany during the partitions of Poland were German ethnically.

...
Exactly.

Actually, it seems to me that German propaganda has very much appealed to English authors, as in the most English albums about XIX-XX cent. history of Europe that I've read/seen so far, there would've been deep admiration for Germany and ignorance about Poland.
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 10:59 AM   #459
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Darkehmen - Ozersk , Kaliningrad obl.
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6209/...4_d9dbb703_XXL
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Old February 2nd, 2013, 02:42 PM   #460
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Wow, impressive pictures! I also see they renovated some buildings too..... Wish they did the same to the church
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