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Old March 20th, 2013, 12:59 AM   #561
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Originally Posted by keepthepast View Post
So, 600 years, approximately 30 generations of entrenched ethnic culture and you think "getting them back" makes sense on that basis? Oh my. Go back 600 years in almost any place on earth to 'give it back' and you won't have any of the states in the western hemisphere, few in the middle east and elsewhere. Making an argument for confiscated lands and property can hardly be advanced by 600 year old events.
600 years ??? Holy Roman Empire is not German state. Most Holy Roman Emperor are not Germans (Slavs, Latins...). Papa give crown to emperors. Holy Roman Empire is something like EU. People manipulate with history.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:03 AM   #562
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:09 AM   #563
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And it's called Holy Roman Empire of German Nation and it lasted for 800 years.
Charles IV, Holy Roman Emperor
King of Bohemia/King of the Romans (King in Germany)/King of Italy/King of Burgundy

You dont know anything

Is it Italy, Germans heritage for you ???
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:30 AM   #564
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Poland and Russia still occupy a large part of Germany to this day.
Oh, this good time already ended. Today only USA, only USA...

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Old March 20th, 2013, 02:16 AM   #565
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Were the former German owners of the estates and large homes in East Prussia ever compensated for their property lost in WWI and WWII?
I know that there was some reconstruction action (sort of Osthilfe) during the time of Weimar Republic - if you refer to the war damages of 1914-15. It went quite well and quick; on the other hand most of destruction had occured in villages and cities, not in manors. IIRC it was compensation in kind (credits, tax reliefs, etc.), not simple compensation in cash.

After expulsion of Germans from East Prussia during and after 1945 nobody could compensate this loss, because their state (German Reich) virtually ceased to exist as a state. The state of Prussia (Staat Preussen) ceased to exist as well and was dissolved in 1947 or so. Whether or not the legal successor of the Reich (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) compensated any loss of property within the area of the so called Oder-Neisse Ostgebiete? - I don't have the faintest idea. Probably not. Taking into account the economy of the Germany in 1949 - I am not surprised they didn't.

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A quick overview of some palaces/manors in Bartoszyce County (Bartenstein) near Russian border.
Splendid My beloved Heimat

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Originally Posted by Puritan View Post
Palace in Łabędnik / Schloss von Groß Schwansfeld, Poland


author: Marek and Ewa Wojciechowscy
Of von der Groeben family (property 1694-1945). The core of the building from approx. 1712 (there is a cartouche FUNDATIO GROBENIANA 1712), the today's shape of the solid comes from 1861.

From 1945 was a HQ of the State Agricultural Farm, at present private property. The last conservation and renovation - 1987-91.

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Originally Posted by Puritan View Post
Palace in Osieka / Hermenhagen, Poland

author: Marek and Ewa Wojciechowscy
It was bought by a businessman from Bartoszyce and carefully refurbished. At present it is hotel "White Prince 1861" (the name and the date taken from the inscription found on the wall of the structure).

Nb.: the first suggested Polish name of the village was to be "Hermanowo" (polonisation of "Hermenhagen"), but ca. 1947 it was changed - I dunno why

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Palace in Łojdy / Loyden, Poland


author: KubaaJ
Of the von Negenborn family (property ca. 1850 - 1945). Manor built in 1877, extended after 1900 (the one-storey wing on the left to the entrance). Repair works started 1988, but weren't finished.

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Palace in Tolko / Tolks, Poland


author: Honza Groh
Belonged to the family von Tettau. Maintains the remnants of the manor from XVIth century (!), the building established late XVIIth cent. Haven't been remodelled since (even during XIX century, which is rare!). 1945-89 PGR. The last repair: 1983-88. Since 1996 private property.

You've shown mostly these manors, which were lucky. They haven't been burnt or blown up (even though sometimes Red Army troops stationed in it, for example in Łabędnik for 5 months) and after 1945 they found function, usually HQ of PGR (State Agricultural Farm) or village school. Thanks to that, they quickly found a new owner after Transformation in 1989.

Finally, I strongly recommend the book by Malgorzata Jackiewicz-Garniec and Miroslaw Garniec (from Olsztyn/Allenstein) regarding mansions and castles of the former 2/3 of Ostpreussen (the area belonging to Poland since 1945). The information mentioned above I took from this book. It's extremely concise, thorough and with wonderful pics
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Last edited by Mruczek; March 20th, 2013 at 02:23 AM.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 02:52 AM   #566
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Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
I know that there was some reconstruction action (sort of Osthilfe) during the time of Weimar Republic - if you refer to the war damages of 1914-15. It went quite well and quick; on the other hand most of destruction had occured in villages and cities, not in manors. IIRC it was compensation in kind (credits, tax reliefs, etc.), not simple compensation in cash.

After expulsion of Germans from East Prussia during and after 1945 nobody could compensate this loss, because their state (German Reich) virtually ceased to exist as a state. The state of Prussia (Staat Preussen) ceased to exist as well and was dissolved in 1947 or so. Whether or not the legal successor of the Reich (Bundesrepublik Deutschland) compensated any loss of property within the area of the so called Oder-Neisse Ostgebiete? - I don't have the faintest idea. Probably not. Taking into account the economy of the Germany in 1949 - I am not surprised they didn't.
Thanks for your insights. I thought that was the case, but since the compensation/reparations period went into the 21st century, I wondered if, during that long time, such claims were made and realized.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 03:06 AM   #567
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Thanks for your valuable contribution Mruczek!
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Old March 20th, 2013, 03:27 AM   #568
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Ryn / Rhein in Ostpreußen , Poland

Town ( A settlement near the castle was first mentioned in documents in 1405.)


Castle ( built in 1337 by Teutonic Knights )

Autor: Marek and Ewa Wojciechowscy

Castle ( view from west )

Author: E.giedraitis

Castle (interiors)

Author: Marek and Ewa Wojciechowscy

Water tower ( built in 19th century)

Autor: Antekbojar

Windmill ( built in 19th century)

Autor: wrzeslaw

http://www.armator.com.pl/przewodnik/miasta/Ryn/3
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/1538953
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ryn

That's all for tonight
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Old March 20th, 2013, 04:03 AM   #569
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600 years ??? Holy Roman Empire is not German state. Most Holy Roman Emperor are not Germans.

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Originally Posted by Dzwonsson View Post
It's all about how you understand Germany. There was no united German state until the 19th century. Is Prussia the predecessor of nowadays Germany? Of course, but so is Austria, Bavaria, Württemberg, Luxemburg or even Bohemia. Austrian Habsburgs ruled the Holy Roman Empire for centuries, it was a Habsburg emperor who included the German Nation in the official title of the empire and last but not least it were the Austrian Habsburgs who were the first to unite Germany. Before the Habsburg era the emperor resided in Prague as Bohemia was one of the key pieces of the empire [...]
From 962 onwards every Holy Roman Emperor was German, which leaves us with 11 non-German emperors (all of whom reigned prior to Otto I) and 34 German emperors. Even Charles IV was German as he belonged to the then German house of Luxemburg.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 01:50 PM   #570
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Dzwonsson, in your previous post you wrote that every state that wanted to leave "Germany", was able to do so. What are your thoughts on Greater Poland Uprising in 1794, 1806, Duchy of Warsaw 1807-1809, Duchy of Warsaw 1809-1815, November Uprising 1830-1831, Greater Poland Uprising 1846, 1848 or Revolutions of 1848 in the Austrian Empire?


PS. What boundary changes may occur in next 20 years without another war, mass murders, ethnic cleansing, expulsions, looting, destroying cities/towns, etc.? Catalonia, Basque, Scotland, Kosovo (recognised only by some countries) and Galicia will be independent? Ulster will join Ireland, Alsace will be incorporated by Germany, Moldova will be Romanian, Ukraine will be split between Western and Eastern Ukraine and southern Slovakia will join Hungary?
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:25 PM   #571
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Beatiful photos

Last edited by skyscraperus; March 20th, 2013 at 06:40 PM.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 06:39 PM   #572
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Kosovo (recognised only by some countries)
KOSOVO IS SERBIA
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Old March 20th, 2013, 09:26 PM   #573
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ROMFL
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Old March 20th, 2013, 11:14 PM   #574
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Originally Posted by Puritan View Post
Ryn / Rhein in Ostpreußen , Poland

Town ( A settlement near the castle was first mentioned in documents in 1405.)


Castle ( built in 1337 by Teutonic Knights )

Autor: Marek and Ewa Wojciechowscy

Castle ( view from west )

Author: E.giedraitis

Castle (interiors)

Author: Marek and Ewa Wojciechowscy

Water tower ( built in 19th century)

Autor: Antekbojar

Windmill ( built in 19th century)

Autor: wrzeslaw

http://www.armator.com.pl/przewodnik/miasta/Ryn/3
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/1538953
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Ryn

That's all for tonight
Castle of the Teutonic Knights! Wonderful!
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Old March 20th, 2013, 11:28 PM   #575
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More photos of Ryn Castle...














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Old March 20th, 2013, 11:30 PM   #576
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Splendid photos of the castle.

I wonder what the Teutonic Knights would think of the weight room, the television monitors and the pool tables.
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“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

“The meaning of earthly existence lies not, as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering but in the development of the soul.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

"We are more closely connected to the invisible than to the visible"

-Novalis
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Old March 20th, 2013, 11:45 PM   #577
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I wonder what the Teutonic Knights would think of the weight room, the television monitors and the pool tables.
I like hotel more than a prison (the castle was converted into a prison in 1853). I'm sure that Teutonic Knights would've loved swimming pool Keep in mind that after so many redevelopments, maybe 5% of this castle is original. But yeah, it's Teutonic castle all right
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Old March 21st, 2013, 01:31 AM   #578
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I'm sure that Teutonic Knights would've loved swimming pool
Yes, it is good tradition since 1242!
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Old March 21st, 2013, 05:56 AM   #579
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PS. What boundary changes may occur in next 20 years without another war, mass murders, ethnic cleansing, expulsions, looting, destroying cities/towns, etc.? Catalonia, Basque, Scotland, Kosovo (recognised only by some countries) and Galicia will be independent? Ulster will join Ireland, Alsace will be incorporated by Germany, Moldova will be Romanian, Ukraine will be split between Western and Eastern Ukraine and southern Slovakia will join Hungary?
P.S. Europe 2035 according to Russian intelligence agency analysts.
1. http://g2.delfi.lt/images/pix/530x0/...i-60464119.jpg
2. http://g4.delfi.lt/images/pix/530x0/...i-60464151.jpg
3. http://g1.delfi.lt/images/pix/530x0/...i-60464167.jpg
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Old March 21st, 2013, 10:23 AM   #580
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^ I see some links to Lithuanian (and not Russian) website. Russians, Ukrainians and Germans (according to Lithuanian source) are planning to kill over 11,500,000 Poles within next 22 years...

PS. If someone is wondering why Lithuanians are posting anti-Polish comments, here's the reason - link
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