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Old April 10th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #701
Depeched
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Two old buildings in current Kaliningrad/Konigsberg


http://timyar.livejournal.com/27275.html


http://timyar.livejournal.com/27275.html

Pseudo architecture


http://timyar.livejournal.com/27275.html

More photos from Kaliningrad/Konigsberg here:
http://timyar.livejournal.com/27275.html
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Old April 10th, 2013, 10:54 PM   #702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katsuma View Post
Wrong about using the terms "German" and "Germanic" as synonyms.
Which I didn't do. You were refering to ethnically Slavic and Baltic lands (not particularly Polish and Old Prussian), so I refered to Breslau and Königsberg not being less German because of not being ethnically Germanic areas i.e. prior to 1945 Breslau despite being located in an ethnically Slavic area was not less German than for example Hamburg that's located in an ethnically Germanic area.
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On a more serious note, again: (a) it is incorrect to speak about heritage of the Recovered Territories (Ostgebiete) with the focus on German legacy only, given the indigenous ethnic status & composition of those lands; (b) it was not Poland who decided on the border shift in 1945.
Agreed.
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Old April 10th, 2013, 11:13 PM   #703
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The number of "Germans" who were granted with Polish citizenship after WW2 was around 1,2 million. Probably your family chose to leave Poland or was forcefully expelled. Today, in Poland there are only 45,000 people who declare solely German nationality (less than number of Poles living in Germany).
Also, about 2,1 million people from Kresy chose Poland in its new borders as their home.
My hometown is Werdau, next to Zwickau in West-Saxony, clearly situated in
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the ethnic Slavic & Baltic lands;
According to this freaky legitimation everything east of Elbe and Saale is original slavic land.

By the way, the "Germans" in the east did not leave Poland, they left there homeland at that time.

Last edited by Saxonia; April 10th, 2013 at 11:20 PM.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 12:21 AM   #704
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1/ the cities, which had belonged to Germany before WW2 and subsequently became part of Poland, are located in the ethnic Slavic & Baltic lands;


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Originally Posted by Saxonia View Post
My hometown is Werdau, next to Zwickau in West-Saxony, clearly situated in

According to this freaky legitimation everything east of Elbe and Saale is original slavic land.
By the way, the "Germans" in the east did not leave Poland, they left there homeland at that time.
Right. And absurd. Even the UN does not identify Europeans (including slavic) as "indigenous peoples" so the notion that spoils of war in eastern Euroope can be mediated or justified by a claim for indigenous status is simply fallacious.

The importance of some to believe the post WWII land-grab was a rightful return of lands to ancestral and indigeous peoples, as opposed to the reality that it was war booty, strikes me as a cognitive dissonance issue.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 12:36 PM   #705
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It's how propaganda works, Polish commie authorities had to somehow justify the Oder-Neisse line, so they started filling people's heads with various BS such as ethnic Slavic lands, ancient Piast domenses etc. Obviously, it wasn't Poland who made the call, but the fact that in the 21st century someone still belives Poland had any rights to these lands because centuries ago it was an ethnically Slavic area is beyond any comprehension. Poland has the rights to these lands because the Big Three decided so, plain and simple. The brutal reality is though that even when Poland was on the good side during and after the war, it still lost plenty of its lands in the East.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 12:57 PM   #706
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All previously Polish lands that were incoporated into both Prussia and Austria during the partitions of Poland were never incorporated into the Empire and remained "external territories" of respectively Prussia and Austria, which means they couldn't leave the federation as they were no part of it.


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Poland has the rights to these lands because the Big Three decided so, plain and simple.
Exactly. Poles didn't want Breslau or Stettin. The only claims in the final stages of the war included West territories that belonged to Poland before 1772 and before WW2 were inhabited largely by Polish-speaking population (parts of Poznan Voivodeship, Royal Prussia, Lebork-Bytow land) and plebiscite areas (Masuria and small parts of Silesia) as some compensation for destroyed cities, factories, art, etc. Of course, at the time Poles didn't know that Stalin is planning to annex Wilno or Lwow.

Roman Dmowski's Line (red line; proposed by the Polish delegation at the Paris Peace Conference of 1919).


We have to remember that displacement of ethnic Poles and Germans was agreed to by the Allied leaders – Franklin D. Roosevelt of the U.S., Winston Churchill of the United Kingdom, and Joseph Stalin of the USSR – during the conferences at both Tehran and Yalta (* Polish leaders weren't invited).

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The brutal reality is though that even when Poland was on the good side during and after the war, it still lost plenty of its lands in the East.
Agreed.
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Old April 11th, 2013, 01:14 PM   #707
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Just one question, do you know why New Urbanism is so unpopular in Poland? Most of new Polish towns look like group of huge houses, mansions, palaces without any central square, without roads connecting all the buildings...Just houses in the middle of nowhere.
Because we don't have urbanism at all?
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Old April 11th, 2013, 11:04 PM   #708
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well and in part this is a legacy of communism that wanted to suppress urbanism as an expression of burgeois capitalism and they wanted to merge rural and urban areas, hence the zealous adoption of the international style by the mid 1950's, tall buildings surrounded by bucolic urban gardens and amorphous greenery. the other problem is lack of infrastructure building for the last half century, but we are catching up now. and finally, the lack of coherent city and regional planning until now.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old April 11th, 2013, 11:15 PM   #709
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old April 12th, 2013, 04:01 PM   #710
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Old April 12th, 2013, 04:02 PM   #711
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http://pirmojiknyga.mch.mii.lt/parod....en.htm#abelis

"Outstanding People of Lithuania Minor"


Quote:
Martynas Mažvydas (c.1520-63), author of the first Lithuanian book (1547), pioneer of the Lithuanian written language, and educator.
Quote:
Martynas Mažvydas was born in Southern Žemaitija circa 1520. From the time of his youth he supported the Reformation. In 1539-42 Mažvydas taught at a school in Vilnius established by Abraomas Kulvietis in the centre of the Old Town. After this school was closed, Mažvydas was persecuted by the authorities of the Catholic Church and, most probably, was sent to prison. Invited by DukeAlbrecht von Brandenburg on June 8, 1546, Mažvydas moved to Königsberg and entered the university there on August 1. Financially supported by the Duke, he studied theology. During his first year of study, in early 1547, the manuscript of Catechismus was sent to the printer's. Two years later he finished his studies and got a bachelor's degree. From 1549 until his death on May 21, 1563, Mažvydas was a pastor in Ragainė.
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Old April 12th, 2013, 04:02 PM   #712
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http://pirmojiknyga.mch.mii.lt/parod....en.htm#abelis


Quote:
Abrahamus Culvensis
(1510 - 1545),
Lituanus Doctor Juris,
Professor Universitatis Regiomonti
and
Stanislavs Rapagelanus
(1485 -1545),
Lituanus Professor Collegii Vilnensis
et Universitatis Regiomonti

Quote:
Abelis Vilis
(1517? - 1575?),
Creator of the Prussian Written Language

Quote:
M. Danielivs Klein
(1609 - 1696),
author of the first Lithuanian grammar.

GRAMMATICA
Litvanica...

Quote:
Kristijonas Donelaitis
(1714 - 1780),
author of the first Lithuanian poem "Metai" .

Quote:
Ludwig Rhesa (1778 - 1840), first collector, publisher, and student of Lithuanian folksongs.

Quote:
Martynas Jankus (1858 -1946),
cultural and social activist
of Lithuania Minor.

Quote:
Vydūnas
( Vilhelmas Storosta)
(1868 - 1953),
writer and philosopher.

Quote:
Ieva Simonaitytė
(1897 - 1978),
author of these books:

THE FATE OF THE ŠIMONIS FAMILY
OF AUKŠTUJAI,

VILIUS KARALIUS,

...AND IT WAS SO,

NOT THAT SHELTER,

AN UNFINISHED BOOK
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Old April 12th, 2013, 07:45 PM   #713
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Hopefully, Jan Stefan Wydzga's Palace (demolished in 1839-1840) will be rebuilt some day.
Before 1840


Now


Baroque Church of the Visitation in Krosno/Krossen (founded by Teodor Potocki, built between 1715 and 1720)


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Old April 12th, 2013, 09:09 PM   #714
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Barczewo/Wartenburg



The town was first located in 1325 but was soon after destroyed by Lithuanians. The rebuild town was granted city rights in 1364. In 1466, after the Second Peace of Toruń, the town, then known as "Wartberg", became part of Kingdom of Poland. In 1772, after the First partition of Poland it was annexed by the Kingdom of Prussia. The local monastery was secularised in 1810, in 1819/1820 Prussian authorities decided to close down the monastery that was stronghold of Polishness led by Tyburcjusz Bojarzynowski. After the death of Bojarzynowski it has been used has a prison since 1834. According to W. Zenderowski this was part of Prussian repressions against Poles as the monastery was particularly hated by Prussian authorities for being a center of Polish resistance. According to German statistics Poles constituted 72% of population in 1825 and 62% in 1861.

City Hall in Barczewo


Feliks Nowowiejski Museum in Barczewo/Wartenburg (he composed the music to Rota poem)
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Old April 12th, 2013, 09:13 PM   #715
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when the angry rhetoric and ethno-centric propaganda dies down from all sides, I start to enjoy learning about the true complex history of Poland and the lands of our neighbours in Lithuania, Ukraine, Germany etc. very interesting read
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Old April 12th, 2013, 09:37 PM   #716
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Baroque St.Andrew's Church in Ramsowo/Gross Ramsau (founded by Krzysztof Andrzej Jan Szembek)


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Old April 12th, 2013, 10:05 PM   #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzwonsson View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by katsuma View Post
Wrong about using the terms "German" and "Germanic" as synonyms.
Which I didn't do.
Hmm...

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Originally Posted by Dzwonsson View Post
So you're basically saying that Breslau or Königsberg were less German becuase historically those areas weren't Germanic?


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(...) but the fact that in the 21st century someone still belives Poland had any rights to these lands because centuries ago it was an ethnically Slavic area is beyond any comprehension.
Well, by way of parallel, you are just devastating ideological foothold for the ownership rights of Lithuania to Wilno (Vilnius) and Ukraine to Lwów (Lviv).

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Poles didn't want Breslau or Stettin. The only claims in the final stages of the war included West territories that belonged to Poland before 1772 and before WW2 were inhabited largely by Polish-speaking population (parts of Poznan Voivodeship, Royal Prussia, Lebork-Bytow land) and plebiscite areas (Masuria and small parts of Silesia) as some compensation for destroyed cities, factories, art, etc.
Hmm...

An Interwar Polish propaganda poster titled (my free translation): "We have not been here since yesterday, we had once reached far west".



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Old April 12th, 2013, 10:09 PM   #718
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Basilica of the Nativity of the Virgin Mary in Gietrzwałd/Dietrichswalde






Miracle in Gietrzwałd (in German)
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Old April 12th, 2013, 10:46 PM   #719
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Old April 12th, 2013, 11:14 PM   #720
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Well, 'coz I am clever, you know...

Grand Duchy of Lithuania (Balto-Slavic, with the focus on Slavic) =/= contemporary Lithuania (focus on Baltic tribes' heritage).

The city of Wilno/Wilna/Vilna (when in the past was it called Vilnius?) had been ethnically Polish since at least early 18th century.
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