Former East Prussia/ Ostpreußen/ Rytų Prūsija/ Prusy Wschodnie/ Восточная Пруссия. Places & heritage.

[Depeched]

Originally Posted by ja.centy

Well, well. Look at that little Samogitian scoundrel... 'Current state Poland' for Olsztyn?

And who said that Wilno won't be ours again...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polish_army_in_Wilno_1919.jpg
http://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...20081022164659
http://www.dcstamps.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Zeligowski_Wilno_1920.jpg



Forza mighty Lietuva!

You maybe forgot what it mean occupy other state capital, what just destroyed our relationships between our states about 20 years and later. Vilnius never was part of Poland, exept 1920 - 1939.

As I see, this thread reveal that poles have a lot of complexes about historical questions. And with this you have a lot of problems with all neighbors.

By the way, we can add a lot etnic maps, and so what?
There is a question about loyality to state. Look deeper. Do you think that mosurians and other slavonics very wanted to "back" for his Great mother Poland? I don't think so. What is showed plebiscite after WWI.

[RS_UK-PL]

Originally Posted by Depeched

You maybe forgot what it mean occupy other state capital, what just destroyed our relationships between our states about 20 years and later. Vilnius never was part of Poland, exept 1920 - 1939.

As I see, this thread reveal that poles have a lot of complexes about historical questions. And with this you have a lot of problems with all neighbors.

Occupy?

Source - Wikipedia (History of Vilnius)
"In the years 1920-1939 Poles made up 65% of the population, Jews 28%, 4% Russians, 1% Belarusians, 1% Lithuanians. Lithuanians therefore were a very marginal minority (less than 3% immediately after World War I, and less than 1% later in 1930s)."

[Depeched]

Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL

Occupy?

Source - Wikipedia (History of Vilnius)
"In the years 1920-1939 Poles made up 65% of the population, Jews 28%, 4% Russians, 1% Belarusians, 1% Lithuanians. Lithuanians therefore were a very marginal minority (less than 3% immediately after World War I, and less than 1% later in 1930s)."

Ethnic question is other thing. Question what was pole after WWI is olso intresting thing. But you could create other thread.
You shoud remember what was in 1918-1920.
What is more, This thread is not about Poland expansion ideas. We are talking about East Prussia.

[RS_UK-PL]

Originally Posted by Depeched

Ethnic question is other thing.
You shoud remember what was in 1918-1920.
What is more, This thread is not about Poland expansion ideas. We are talking about East Prussia.

The 1916 German census of the Vilnius Region:
Poles — 58.0%
Lithuanians — 18.5%
Jews — 14.7%
Belarusians — 6.4%
Russians — 1.2%
Other — 1.2%

[uunxx]

Oh, come on, do you really want to steal Vilnius from Lithuania? Let's brag about Polishness of Wilno and then we'll talk about how Gdańsk is not German. If we want to be treated seriously we should have some limits.

[Depeched]

Göttkendorf, after 1946 Gutkowo near Olsztyn, monument for German soldiers of WWI. Someone tried to knock down german notes.



Gothic church







Near church from all old crosses removed german notes, left only one where is written in polish. I can't imagine why?

[RS_UK-PL]

Originally Posted by uunxx

Oh, come on, do you really want to steal Vilnius from Lithuania? Let's brag about Polishness of Wilno and then we'll talk about how Gdańsk is not German. If we want to be treated seriously we should have some limits.

I didn't start this topic

Poland didn't occupy Vilnius, Lviv, Hrodna, etc. because these cities were inhabited by a Polish majority.

BTW, today's Gdansk has nothing to do with Germany, you should already know that. Danzig died in 1945 (90% destroyed) and the reconstruction of Gdansk after the war was not tied to the city’s pre-war appearance, instead its politically motivated purpose was to rebuild an idealized pre-1793 state (when the city was under Polish crown)...

[Judge Roy Beam]

Territorial disputes and the arguments advanced by both sides can be incredibly fluid if nothing else.

Take the case of Gdansk/Danzig for instance. In 1918 the German government spoke of an overwhelming German majority residing therein while the Polish government countered by pointing out the city's long and rich history as an integral part of the Polish nation.

Meanwhile, with respect to Vilnius/Wilno the argument was reversed. Here it was the Polish government that spoke of an overwhelming Polish majority residing therein while it was left to the Lithuanian government to counter by pointing out the city's long history as an integral part of and indeed the historical capital of Lithuania.

Who's right, who's wrong? In the end, it all comes down to which side of the fence you're sitting

[RS_UK-PL]

Originally Posted by Judge Roy Beam

Territorial disputes and the arguments advanced by both sides can be incredibly fluid if nothing else.

Take the case of Gdansk/Danzig for instance. In 1918 the German government spoke of an overwhelming German majority residing therein while the Polish government countered by pointing out the city's long and rich history as an integral part of the Polish nation.

Meanwhile, with respect to Vilnius/Wilno the argument was reversed. Here it was the Polish government that spoke of an overwhelming Polish majority residing therein while it was left to the Lithuanian government to counter by pointing out the city's long history as an integral part of and indeed the historical capital of Lithuania.

Who's right, who's wrong? In the end, it all comes down to which side of the fence you're sitting

OT: Pre-war Danzig/Gdansk was completely destroyed during WW2 and today's Gdansk is a really crappy copy of what was there before It was a such a beautiful city...

Link: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1486666

Elbing/Elblag: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1515133

[uunxx]

Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL

Poland didn't occupy Vilnius, Lviv, Hrodna, etc. because these cities were inhabited by a Polish majority.

Sure, but while the other cities where indeed Polish, Vilnius is historical Lithuanian capital, so no wonder Lithuanians are sensitive about it. While the atitude of the whole thread is controvesial, I find it nitpicking to dispute one word "occupy" here (applies to Vilnius only, not the other cities).

Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL

BTW, today's Gdansk has nothing to do with Germany, you should already know that. Danzig died in 1945 (90% destroyed) and the reconstruction of Gdansk after the war was not tied to the city’s pre-war appearance, instead its politically motivated purpose was to rebuild an idealized pre-1793 state (when the city was under Polish crown)...

I agree, you don't have to explain it to me.

Great photos BTW.

[Puritan]

Originally Posted by Depeched

Göttkendorf, after 1946 Gutkowo
(...)
Near church from all old crosses removed german notes, left only one where is written in polish. I can't imagine why?

It's probably People's Republic of Poland "achievement" ...

and now Republic of Poland some true achievement's

Zweisprachige Ortsnamen in Polen

8 III 2012 - 798 cities/villages

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...20120510085449

The German language is used in certain areas in Opole Voivodeship (German: Woiwodschaft Oppeln), where most of the minority resides and Silesian Voivodeship (German: Woiwodschaft Schlesien). The German Minority electoral list currently has one seat in the Sejm of the Republic of Poland (there were four from 1993 to 1997), benefiting from the current provision in Polish election law which exempts national minorities from the 5% national threshold.

There are 325 Polish schools that use the German language as the first language of instruction, with over 37,000 students.

Bilingual communes in Poland

The bilingual status of gminas (communes) in Poland is regulated by the Act of 6 January 2005 on National and Ethnic Minorities and on the Regional Languages, which permits certain gminas with significant linguistic minorities to introduce a second, auxiliary language to be used in official contexts alongside Polish.

German newspapers:

"Masurische Storchenpost"
"Schlesien heute"
"Wochenblatt.pl"
"Oberschlesien"
"Oberschlesische Stimme"
"Mitteilungsblatt"
...

etc. etc. etc.



Have you any examples from Lithuania? European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages? Bilingual communes? Bilingual signs?

Have you seen renovated Wrocław railway station with restored old german signposts like
"DURCHGANG ZUR FLURSTRAßE“ ?

It's only small example of German heritage revival in Poland.


It's unimaginable right now in Wilno/Vilnius/Вільня.

[Judge Roy Beam]

Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL

OT: Pre-war Danzig/Gdansk was completely destroyed during WW2 and today's Gdansk is a really crappy copy of what was there before It was a such a beautiful city...

Link: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1486666

Your sarcasm is showing

Anybody with even half a brain is fully aware of what splendid job your countrymen did rebuilding that city.

Aside from maybe Warsaw, no rebuilding effort anywhere on the planet can compare with that kind of success.

My only criticism, and it's a relatively mild one given the then recently preceding history, is that it was a tad dishonest to deliberately obliterate any and all evidence of it's post 1793 history.


.

[Depeched]

Originally Posted by Puritan

It's probably People's Republic of Poland "achievement" ...

and now Republic of Poland some true achievement's

Zweisprachige Ortsnamen in Polen

8 III 2012 - 798 cities/villages

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?...20120510085449

The German language is used in certain areas in Opole Voivodeship (German: Woiwodschaft Oppeln), where most of the minority resides and Silesian Voivodeship (German: Woiwodschaft Schlesien). The German Minority electoral list currently has one seat in the Sejm of the Republic of Poland (there were four from 1993 to 1997), benefiting from the current provision in Polish election law which exempts national minorities from the 5% national threshold.

There are 325 Polish schools that use the German language as the first language of instruction, with over 37,000 students.

Bilingual communes in Poland

The bilingual status of gminas (communes) in Poland is regulated by the Act of 6 January 2005 on National and Ethnic Minorities and on the Regional Languages, which permits certain gminas with significant linguistic minorities to introduce a second, auxiliary language to be used in official contexts alongside Polish.

German newspapers:

"Masurische Storchenpost"
"Schlesien heute"
"Wochenblatt.pl"
"Oberschlesien"
"Oberschlesische Stimme"
"Mitteilungsblatt"
...

etc. etc. etc.



Have you any examples from Lithuania? European Charter for Regional or Minority Languages? Bilingual communes? Bilingual signs?

Have you seen renovated Wrocław railway station with restored old german signposts like
"DURCHGANG ZUR FLURSTRAßE“ ?

It's only small example of German heritage revival in Poland.


It's unimaginable right now in Wilno/Vilnius/Вільня.

Sorry, what is unimaginable in Vilnius? I don't underrstand what you talking about? If question is about polish minority in Lithuania. "Umaginable" thing is not true. More, now it is everything imaginable.

Poles, russians has own radio station's, info portals, newspepers, renovated schools. You are talking nonsenses. Come to Lithuania and you will see.

Lithuanian minority has much more problems with education, cultural things in your glory Poland.

Let's see to polish tolerance to minorities.

Bubeliai, Poland. Monument for lithuanian poet Albinas Žukauskas
Monument like this is not one.


http://g1.delfi.lt/images/pix/file48856470_126d2ea7.jpg

From now I will not talk about polish nationalism ideas and other things like this.

[Barto_S]

The fact is that today's Poland does not have major problems with minorities, there is no problem with showing the past, areas that were under the rule of German, Czech, etc.. as seen in the example of Gdansk, Wroclaw and many other cities. Our attitude to Russia only requires first wound healing (maybe sometimes...).

Today's Lithuania has a lot of problems with finding their own identity. Probably due to the fear of the annihilation of the nation - it's a tiny country somewhere at the end of the European Union, independly existing for several years and threatened Polish and Russian influences, with large minorities of both countries.

[Depeched]

Originally Posted by Barto_S

large minorities of both countries.

Lithuania:

83%Lithuanians
7% poles
6% russians
4% others

Poland after war don't have any minority problems (sorry man), because all nations from there were just cleaned.

Ok, Talk what just you want. But if you want to try talk about Lithuania, look in facts, but not in level "something said that".
I could say absolutely the same for Poland and so what? It is emotions but not decisions.

[JValjean]

Originally Posted by Depeched

From now I will not talk about polish nationalism ideas and other things like this.

You're abolutely right!
Please continue with posting images of once East-Prussian places!

[Puritan]

Originally Posted by Depeched

Sorry, what is unimaginable in Vilnius?

- bilingual street/city signs

- bilingual signs in public/private transport

- the bilingual status of communes, which permits certain gminas with significant linguistic minorities to introduce a second, auxiliary language to be used in official contexts.

+ nonsense law

"Vilnius District authorities disallowed to name street after Polish author Julian Tuwim"

http://www.15min.lt/en/article/cultu...#ixzz24YdAdG9q


etc.

[Depeched]

Thanks for Poland that this city was not just demolished.
Elbing/ now Elbląg.

[Depeched]

Wischwill/Viešvilė. Lithuania

Article about small former Easter Prussia town Viešvilė. What is going there now?

[RS_UK-PL]

Beautiful shots

Originally Posted by Depeched

Thanks for Poland that this city was not just demolished.
Elbing/ now Elbląg.

Elbing/Elblag 1945




More: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1515133