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Old May 26th, 2013, 07:52 AM   #961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puritan View Post
Wójtówko/Voigtshof, Poland

is a village in the administrative district of Gmina Jeziorany in Warmian-Masurian Voivodeship.

Manor ( built at the beginning of 20th c.)

author: maniek66

Manor house is a private property

author: maniek66

Renovated in 2011

author: maniek66

I like the Manor and the setting.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 11:14 AM   #962
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Catholic Holy Cross Church in Braniewo/Braunsberg, Warmia (built on the initiative of Bishop Teodor Potocki in 1722–1747; it is the only church in the Warmia region following the Greek cross plan with a central cupola)






* The temple is a cult center associated with the painting of Trinity. This painting hung once on the oak tree outside the city. In 1626, outraged by Swedish soldiers (it was cut or streaked), it run with blood. In 1628 it was transferred to Warsaw and came back to Braniewo in 1672. The painting is placed in the main altar.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 06:23 PM   #963
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Former Protestant Church in Szestno/Seehesten, Masuria (sadly, in the 80s converted to Roman Catholic)










Former Protestant Church in Trelkowo/Gross Schöndamerau, Masuria (built in 1757; in 1981 purchased by Roman Catholics and converted)




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Old May 27th, 2013, 12:52 AM   #964
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Traditional Masurian wooden house in Piecki/Peitschendorf


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Old May 29th, 2013, 10:06 AM   #965
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RS UK-PL, is Masuria somehow different than the rest of Poland? Particularly in cultural sphere? Different society's mindset, character?
Interesting is that actually until XIX sec.half, in Lithuania, masuria was = Poland. (lenkas-mozūras).
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Old May 29th, 2013, 11:32 AM   #966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prosp View Post
RS UK-PL, is Masuria somehow different than the rest of Poland? Particularly in cultural sphere? Different society's mindset, character?
Interesting is that actually until XIX sec.half, in Lithuania, masuria was = Poland. (lenkas-mozūras).
Masurian dialect and traditional architecture (with exception of religious architecture) are very similar to the other neighbouring regions in Poland. During Partitions of Poland, Masurians showed considerable support for the Polish uprising in 1831, and maintained many contacts with Russian-held areas of Poland beyond the border of Prussia, the areas being connected by common culture and language. Before the uprising people visited each other's country fairs and much trade took place, with smuggling also widespread. Some early writers about Masurians - like Max Toeppen - postulated them as mediators between German and Slav cultures. To be honest, the Church shaped the biggest differences between Catholic Warmiaks and Protestant Masurians.

Reminiscences of Warmiaks and Masurians from former East Prussia living in Poland today - LINK
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Old May 29th, 2013, 11:42 AM   #967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Masurian dialect and traditional architecture are very similar to the other neighbouring regions in Poland. During Partitions of Poland, Masurians showed considerable support for the Polish uprising in 1831, and maintained many contacts with Russian-held areas of Poland beyond the border of Prussia, the areas being connected by common culture and language. Before the uprising people visited each other's country fairs and much trade took place, with smuggling also widespread. Some early writers about Masurians - like Max Toeppen - postulated them as mediators between German and Slav cultures. To be honest, the Church shaped the biggest differences between Catholic Warmiaks and Protestant Masurians.
Thanks.
Btw, here is an interesting article about relationship between masovians and lithuanians (since XIII cent.). Masurians and masovians are frequently mentioned in our folk culture.

THE DUKES OF MASOVIA AND THE LITHUANIAN STATE

IN THE 13tH CENTURY  STRUGGLE OR COOPERATION?
http://www.tnt.torun.pl/ZH2010-1_en
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Old May 29th, 2013, 10:46 PM   #968
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Masurians are descendants of Masovians, who had settled in Prussia.

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In the Middle Ages the inhabitants of the northern Duchy of Masovia were called Mazury in Polish. Between the 14th and 17th centuries Polish settlers from northern Masovia moved to the southern territories of the Monastic State of the Teutonic Knights that was previously the land of the Baltic Old Prussians, who were conquered by the Teutonic Knights in the 13th and 14th centuries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masurians
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Old May 30th, 2013, 01:01 AM   #969
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Masovians are these people from Warsaw right?
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Old May 30th, 2013, 07:06 AM   #970
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I am very impressed by the large number of churches that are beautiful in the former Easp Prussia. And it is not only the cathedrals - many of these are small village and rural churches. I am sure it must have been difficult over the years.

Cheers to all those who have been involved.
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“The meaning of earthly existence lies not, as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering but in the development of the soul.”
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"We are more closely connected to the invisible than to the visible"

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Old May 30th, 2013, 04:08 PM   #971
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Hi there,
this is very interesting topic, but about Masurians you have to keep in mind few things.
First of all, until half of 19th century Masovians were called Masurians so when you read something about "Masurians" you have to be sure that this is about people from Masuria. Even one of our (Polish) greatest poets - Adam Mickiewicz calls peoples from Masovia Masurians.
But it's true that Masuria was inhabited by settlers from Masovia, somewhere around 14th and 15th century. But you have to remember that Prussian Kingdom was rather tollerant about relligion, and was open for settlers from anywhere: East Prussia was also inhabited by Old Believers from Russia, one other religious group from Russia that name i can't remember (but i do remember that they didn't agreed to serve in Prussian army so they were quite a trouble for prussian government), there were Huguenots from France (there were so many of them that in 18tf century french was one of official languages in Gumbinnen), some Scots and Dutch as i can recall, and of course Germans. So Masurians didn't lived in some empty space, but were just one of many groups living there.
And Masurian ties with Masovia wasn't as close either. Keep in mind, that we, Poles, also have and had our own propagand, and if you want to find the truth you have to be a bit sceptical while reading about "Recovered Territories" ("Ziemie Odzyskane" as we call it).
Of course there was a lot of trading going on between Masuria and Masovia (and a lot of smuggling), but mostly with Kurpie (ethinc group in northern Masovia) which had similiar language (or maybe dialect, because it was rather strange version of polish). But Kurpie also wasn't Masovians - but that is another subject.
Another thing is Masurian rural architecture, and it's not VERY similiar to Masovian, a bit but not very. I don't know proper nomenclature but look at this:

or this

This house may not be richiest in Masurian details but you can see that it's quite different than Masovian house. And you must remember that Masurian architecture was not standing in one place - it was evolving, and in second half of 19th century there wasn't many wooden rural cottages left - prussian govenment had this program to give some speed to east prussian economy, and there was a lot of "upgrading" in east prussian agriculture - that's why most popular Masurian rural house is made from red brick, and not wood. Something like this:


or sometimes covered with plasterwork, or with mixed styles like some masurian schools:




Of course, there are some old, simple cottages like in Masovia, but they are not many, and i myself found them mostly in southern parts of Masuria, near Willenberg or Soldau.

If you are interested in Masurian history i really recommend those books:

Max Toeppen - Historia Mazur. Przyczynek do dziejów Krainy i kultury pruskiej (Geschichte Masurens. Ein Beitrag zur preußischen Landes- und Kulturgeschichte

Andreas Kossert - Prusy Wschodnie. Historia i Mit (Ostpreußen. Geschichte und Mythos)

And if you want to read about Masurian rural architecture this is a great book:
Iwona Liżewska - Tradycyjne budownictwo wiejskie na Warmii i Mazurach

Also i hope that someone will bring topic of East Prussian rebuild after I world war, because there were so many great architecture ideas about East Prussian architectural identity.
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Old May 30th, 2013, 04:38 PM   #972
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Nice photos...
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Old May 30th, 2013, 05:34 PM   #973
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Those wooden houses with tiled roof look pretty weird
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Тем, кто родился на берегу моря, всегда дует ветер странствий. От него деревья не колышутся, зато души трепещут...
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Old May 31st, 2013, 03:33 PM   #974
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TILSIT , koenig






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Old May 31st, 2013, 08:32 PM   #975
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Germany street names in Tilsit? Is it normal or only at this location?
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Old May 31st, 2013, 08:41 PM   #976
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Only in that location
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Тем, кто родился на берегу моря, всегда дует ветер странствий. От него деревья не колышутся, зато души трепещут...
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Old May 31st, 2013, 09:04 PM   #977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Masurian dialect and traditional architecture (with exception of religious architecture) are very similar to the other neighbouring regions in Poland. During Partitions of Poland, Masurians showed considerable support for the Polish uprising in 1831, and maintained many contacts with Russian-held areas of Poland beyond the border of Prussia, the areas being connected by common culture and language. Before the uprising people visited each other's country fairs and much trade took place, with smuggling also widespread. Some early writers about Masurians - like Max Toeppen - postulated them as mediators between German and Slav cultures. To be honest, the Church shaped the biggest differences between Catholic Warmiaks and Protestant Masurians.
Except of that in the 20th century German [extreme] nationalism was rather common under the Masurain population... it is actually a very interesting story, over the course of centuries a Polish speaking community consisting of Polish settlers from the 14th and 15th century at some point becomes protestant and starts to identify itself with Germany rather than Poland.
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Old May 31st, 2013, 10:19 PM   #978
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"German [extreme] nationalism was rather common under the Masurain population..."
I'm not so sure about that. Do you know any Nazi concentration camps established by Masurians or ethnic cleansing campaigns?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Btw, some results from Warmian plebiscite in 1920 in the Olsztyn/Allenstein area:

Barczewko/Alt Wartenburg
Germany - 543 Poland - 80

Bartołty Wielkie/Groß Bartelsdorf
Germany - 265 Poland - 29

Brąswałd/Braunswalde
Germany - 225 Poland - 85

Bredynki/Bredinken
Germany - 506 Poland - 132

Butryny/Wuttrienen
Germany - 306 Poland - 168

Dajtki/Deuthen
Germany - 293 Poland - 44

Dorotowo/Dorothowo
Germany - 243 Poland - 43

Dywity/Diwitten
Germany - 297 Poland - 60

Gietrzwałd/Dietrichswalde
Germany - 352 Poland - 170

Giławy/Gillau
Germany - 190 Poland - 58

Gryźliny/Grieslienen
Germany - 276 Poland - 176

Gutkowo
Germany - 475 Poland - 69

Jaroty
Germany - 384 Poland - 78

Lamkowo/Lemkendorf
Germany - 694 Poland - 84

Leszno
Germany - 67 Poland - 92

Purda/Groß Purden
Germany - 389 Poland - 192

Rasząg/Raschung
Germany - 153 Poland - 98

Stanclewo/Stanzlewen
Germany - 360 Poland - 182

Stawiguda/Stabigotten
Germany - 386 Poland - 96

Sząbruk/Schönbrück
Germany - 268 Poland - 83

Szelągowo/Schillings
Germany - 16 Poland - 17

Unieszewo/Schönfelde
Germany - 282 Poland - 161

Wrzesina/Alt Schöneberg
Germany - 241 Poland - 69

Wymój/Wemitten
Germany - 51 Poland - 116

Zabrodzie/Zabrodzin
Germany - 20 Poland - 23

If Poland would've been independent 20-30 years earlier and was stronger economically, I'm sure that number of votes for Poland would've been much higher, especially that southern Warmia was almost exclusively inhabited by Polish-speaking and very religious Catholics, who were ethnic Poles (see Warmiaks). Also, there are many evidences that the results of Warmian plebiscite were falsified by Germans.

And plebiscite in Masuria...well, see posts by Dolsilwa.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 12:08 AM   #979
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The circumstances were more poles-friendly. For example even "Ruhrpolen" (Ruhr Poles) were allowed to vote if they were born in Masurian before 1905 although they did not even live there anymore for many years. And over 90% agreement fore east prussia (and so for germany) don't leave many space for discussions about faked Votings.

I think it is quite understandable why many Masurians did not want to join Poland. They were in war with Sowjet Russia at that time and it wasn't very good-looking for them. So I would say bad timing.
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Old June 1st, 2013, 12:40 AM   #980
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Soviet army was about to capture Warsaw during that plebiscite.
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