Former East Prussia/ Ostpreußen/ Rytų Prūsija/ Prusy Wschodnie/ Восточная Пруссия. Places & heritage.

[Barto_S]

Originally Posted by Depeched

Lithuania:

83%Lithuanians
7% poles
6% russians
4% others

Poland after war don't have any minority problems (sorry man), because all nations from there were just cleaned.

Ok, Talk what just you want. But if you want to try talk about Lithuania, look in facts, but not in level "something said that".
I could say absolutely the same for Poland and so what? It is emotions but not decisions.

in your statements is so much aggression, ignorance and lack of respect for an another man. Above all it's hard to take someone at his level discussions. Based on the example ofyour behavior don't be surprised that we have this bad image of Lithuanians in Poland. I believe that not everyone in Lithuania is so crazy

[Karasek]

Originally Posted by Barto_S

The fact is that today's Poland does not have major problems with minorities, there is no problem with showing the past, areas that were under the rule of German, Czech, etc.. as seen in the example of Gdansk, Wroclaw and many other cities.

Oh, you remember famous German Silesians, Prussians and Pomeranians in your public sphere now? I always found it strange that almost no monuments and street names had anything to do with the region/city/town/village. Good that these times are over and people like Gerhart Hauptmann, Arthur Schopenhauer or Max Born finally get the recognicion they deserve... where else in the world would a village *not* name a street after a local Nobel price winner.

[Depeched]

Thanks for these photos, WWII was terrible.

Lithuanian museum wants to rebuild extinct village on Curonian Spit

[Depeched]

Another not bad pre war East Prussia map


http://infrastruct.files.wordpress.c...1/preussen.png

[Depeched]

Gerdauen. After 1946 - Железнодоро́жный. Kaliningrad district. Russia

image hosted on flickr

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4102/4...53e99703_b.jpg
photo by Dmitri Korobstov

image hosted on flickr

photo by Dmitri Korobstov

image hosted on flickr

photo by Dmitri Korobstov

image hosted on flickr

photo by Dmitri Korobstov

image hosted on flickr

photo by Dmitri Korobstov

[ja.centy]

Originally Posted by Depeched

You maybe forgot what it mean occupy other state capital, what just destroyed our relationships between our states about 20 years and later. Vilnius never was part of Poland, exept 1920 - 1939.

As the other Polish forumer already stated, in early 20th century the majority of Wilno inhabitants were Polish, with signifcant Jewish population, and only <3% Lithuanians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_...Vilnius_region

And in terms of 'deeper' past, the elites of the former Grand Duchy of Lithuania, which was a multi-cultural country with Ruthenian majority, had chosen to freely polonise, as they considered Polish language and culture as more prestigeous.

Originally Posted by Depeched

As I see, this thread reveal that poles have a lot of complexes about historical questions. And with this you have a lot of problems with all neighbors.

Lithuanians have more complexes than the Poles. Trust me.

And, as already stated by other forumers, Poland doesn't have problems with other neighbours, apart from Lithuania.

Originally Posted by Depeched

Do you think that mosurians and other slavonics very wanted to "back" for his Great mother Poland? I don't think so. What is showed plebiscite after WWI.

Fail. I already posted a comment regarding manipulation and falsification of the plebiscite by Germans.

Originally Posted by Depeched

What is more, This thread is not about Poland expansion ideas. We are talking about East Prussia.

Originally Posted by Depeched

From now I will not talk about polish nationalism ideas and other things like this.

Look at that little Samogitian scoundrel again. Knowing Polish sensitivity to history, he opens a controversial thread, and when Poles dare to react, he is veeeery surprised by Polish 'nationalism'. If you just stay in your lovely Samogitian swamps, everything will be fine.

Well done in getting some melting in the virtual pot done, mission accomplished.

Originally Posted by uunxx

Oh, come on, do you really want to steal Vilnius from Lithuania? Let's brag about Polishness of Wilno and then we'll talk about how Gdańsk is not German. If we want to be treated seriously we should have some limits.

As already said, this thread wasn't opened by Poles.

Originally Posted by Depeched

Let's see to polish tolerance to minorities.

Bubeliai, Poland. Monument for lithuanian poet Albinas Žukauskas
Monument like this is not one.

http://g1.delfi.lt/images/pix/file48856470_126d2ea7.jpg

Haha, there you go. If such incidents take place in Poland, they are done in hiding, are condemned by the authorities and certainly prosecuted.

In Lithuania, on the other hand, we can witness how young 'patriotic' Lithuanians in broad daylight invade the private property of an elderly man in a town inhabited by Poles in 90% and take off the sign with a Polish name of the street.

Lithuanian tolerance at its best!

Originally Posted by Depeched

Poland after war don't have any minority problems (sorry man), because all nations from there were just cleaned.

Oh, and what happened to some other ethnic communities living in Lithuania until World War 2?

Didn't some brave Lithuanian 'patriots' assist their Nazi masters with cleansing their former Jewish and Polish neighbours?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collabo...r_II#Lithuania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponary_massacre

[Barto_S]

ja.centy, it's piontless to speak with this narrow mind Lithuanian guy. That's what he says is full of the same stereotypes. Note the absence of his culture - he writes the name of the Poland and Poles with small letters on purpose.

It's better to enjoy the beautiful pictures in this thread than discuss/feed the trolls.

[katsuma]

Originally Posted by Karasek

I always found it strange that almost no monuments and street names had anything to do with the region/city/town/village. Good that these times are over and people like Gerhart Hauptmann, Arthur Schopenhauer or Max Born finally get the recognicion they deserve... where else in the world would a village *not* name a street after a local Nobel price winner.

Any surprise there? It's understandable that, following German occupation and crimes, there was huge hostility in Poland towards everything and anything German-related. In particular in the lands, which had been part of Germany before WW2. Hence, I believe there's nothing to be surprised of in this regard.

I also think that it would've been an evolutionary sequence in the social development of Polish nation and in PL-DE relations after 1945 to get to the stage, where pre-War German heritage may be embraced by the locals. But it's still quite a fragile issue/phenomenon, I suppose.

[rychlik]

Somebody shut this thread down.

[Judge Roy Beam]

Why?

The posted pictures are quite interesting and the conversation though a bit spirited at times has for the most part proved to be both informative and educational.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have gained a greater appreciation of number of opposing viewpoints expressed here.

And I see that as a good thing.

Your mileage may vary.

[Urbanista1]

Originally Posted by Depeched

.........
Poland after war don't have any minority problems (sorry man), because all nations from there were just cleaned.

Ok, Talk what just you want. But if you want to try talk about Lithuania, look in facts, but not in level "something said that".
I could say absolutely the same for Poland and so what? It is emotions but not decisions.

This is the reason why I immediately became sensitive to this thread, not because of the title, but the oversimplification of history, and above all the tone. I don't know where all this hate for Poland in some extremist circles is coming from in Lithuania after a millenium of brotherhood, it's obviously political and has something to do with the poor treatment of Polish minorities in your country.

moderator please close this thread until there is an attitude change.

[ja.centy]

Originally Posted by rychlik

Somebody shut this thread down.

Originally Posted by Urbanista1

moderator please close this thread until there is an attitude change.

This thread should be kept open, in my opinion. If our Lithuanian 'friend' talks rubbish, we'll keep pointing him out, no sweat.

By way of analogy, I believe nothing would stop us (Poles) from opening a photo thread depicting the architectural traces of Polish heritage in Vilnius/Wilno, Lviv/Lwów and other areas of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

[Karasek]

Originally Posted by katsuma

Any surprise there?

No. My post was ironic... as far as I know there is no Gerhart Hauptmann street in Sklaska Poreba, no Max Born auditorium in Wroclaw and no Arthur Schopenhauer monument in Gdansk. But in Wroclaw I'm always impressed by the plagues who tell me that some Poles spend a night in the city.

[RS_UK-PL]

Originally Posted by Karasek

No. My post was ironic... as far as I know there is no Gerhart Hauptmann street in Sklaska Poreba, no Max Born auditorium in Wroclaw and no Arthur Schopenhauer monument in Gdansk. But in Wroclaw I'm always impressed by the plagues who tell me that some Poles spend a night in the city.

Why Germans removed Polish eagles from Neptune's Fountain in Danzig/Gdansk in 1935? Why Germans restricted the usage of other languages than German in East Prussia in 1870s? Why Germans demolished Hercules (allegory of John III Sobieski) Well in Elbing/Elblag in 1885? Etc.

[JValjean]

I guess those Poles here never heard anything about Gerhart Hauptmann, Arthur Schopenhauer, Max Born etc.

Perhaps only that these guys were fruits of several hundreds of years of enforced and brutal Germanization of eternal Polish grounds …

Anyway this here’s about the former German territory of East Prussia. Even after WWI, as the allied tried to weaken Germany as much as possible, this region stayed part of Germany.

Don’t you think dear Polish patriots that if East Prussia wouldn’t have been in its character a German land in 1918 it had rested a part of Germany? After all territorial losses and punishments the allied implemented on Germany?

[whatever...]

Some of you guys are genuinely mental. You've managed to turn a perfectly innocent and interesting thread into another "Poland strong!!!" pissfest for no reason whatsoever...

I'd suggest the moderator responsible for this section to delete all of the nationality related, offtopic posts.

Originally Posted by Barto_S

Today's Lithuania has a lot of problems with finding their own identity.

Doesn't make any sense. Why would we even be searching for something which we have never lost.

[JValjean]

Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL

Why Germans restricted the usage of other languages than German in East Prussia in 1870s?

Perhaps for the same reasons why France implemented the french language as sole and unique national language from Bretagne over Basque country to Alsace and Corsica: une nation, une langue!

[whatever...]

Originally Posted by ja.centy

Well, well. Look at that little Samogitian scoundrel... 'Current state Poland' for Olsztyn?

Seriously? what the hell is wrong with you guys?

All i see in that picture is a beautiful building well in shape, good infrastructure and decent cars. So it is in black and white (which i admit, with no offense meant to Depeched, is unnecessary) - big f***ing deal. Does every picture of Poland have to be with rainbows and children laughing and flowers blooming and all that...?

[Depeched]

Ok, Now back to current Lithuania.
Minor Lithuania as a ethnic region of Lithuania, always understandable as former East Prussia region. Nobody wants to ram it home that this area was full of lithuanian culture.
Lithuanians had own military part in Prussia army, where was used lithuanian language. Here, were printed lithuanian books for Lithuania, which was part of Russia Empire and lithuanian language was forbiden.

Lithuanians in Easter Prussia felt themselves as citizens of Prussia, later Germany.
I absolutlly sure that was a same in Southern part of Eastern Prussia. Till Hitler came to power, all germans seen this region as land of lithuanians. It still visible that this region was richer then Poland or Lithuania. When you just cross the former border, views of towns, architecture very diferrent and richer than Poland and Lithuania areas, I will not start to talk about Russia.

Heydekrug/Šilutė/Šilokarčema. Lithuania

Old bridge






German notes, kept well,

[Depeched]

Monument for german novelist and dramatist Hermann Sudermann,



Renovation of Hugo Scheu manor, there is also and monument for him












http://www.fotokronika.lt/photos/866....watermark.jpg