daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 1st, 2013, 01:59 AM   #981
Dolsilwa
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Passenheim
Posts: 11
Likes (Received): 16

Hi, about voting and german nationalism in Masuria.

First of all, Masurians were very conservative people, and not many of them had high education. They had much respect to government and it's officials like policeman and judges, but not many of them understood how state works (i've red that when there was voting to landtag or other self-government body, Masurians often voted for Kaiser to be their representative).
And you have to keep in mind that Masuria was never a polish territory - first there were old Prussians, then Teutonic Order with lots of settlers from everywhere, and then Prussia (first duchy than kingdom) and then it was part of Germany - but it was never part of Poland. Of course, we Poles can say that Prussia was hmm... feudum - dependent from Poland for 100 years. But that meant nothing to common inhabitant of Masuria.
And German relation to Masurians was not the same like their relation to Poles - young people from Masuria were easily assimiliating to German culture, mostly because many of them went to work to main Germany. And Germans themselves made first museums of Masurians, because they thaught of them like they are some disappearing culture.
And then first world war came, and Masuria had suffered it share. And it was Germany that established Ostpreussenhilfe, and from 1915 Germans from all over the world (even from both americas) send their money to rebuild East Prussia (it is really interesting topic, especially in case of architecture).
Germany really cared for East Prussia, while Poland was great unknown, and speaking frankly, Poland never cared about Masuria and East Prussia, because there was nothing of worth (maybe views) - no industry, no resources, Kresy Wschodnie had better much better agriculture - so why would they care about Masuria?
So it's really not surprising that votes gone to Germany, not Poland.
And now about nationalism. As i've said before, Masurians were patriots, and 100 years ago, word nationalism was not so negative as it is today (it was after world war II that nationalism became understood like fascism or nazism). But it is a historic fact that East Prussia, and Masuria most, was a place were Nazi party had their greatest success:
in Kreis Ortelsburg it was 74% votes on NSDAP in 1933, in Sensburg it was 69%, in Lyck it was 80% and in Neidenburg it was 81% ! When Hitler was visiting Lyck he said that there is no land as devoted to Germany as Masuria. But this "love" was not about nationalism. It's true that Masurians were conservatives but they were not some jew-eaters. It was all about economy. You see, Ostpreusenhilfe from first world war ended, and it was long ago, and almost nothing was going on in East Prussia economy. No public works, no big investments. And Nazis said that they will do something. And they did. Do you know the term "Kochówka"? It is small house for one familly:


Those are Kochówki. Nazis started their reign in East Prussia with making sure that everyone can afford his own house. Kochówki were not expensive, so common worker could afford it, and they were build all over East Prussia. Every city had it's housing estates of Kochówki, and they were also build in countryside, as new cheap house for young farmers.
And there was lots of work for people - building all those houses, roads, industrial plants (both civilian and army) and in administration. Nazis said that they will care for Masuria, and they did - there was really lots of money for public investments. So you can understand that East Prussians didn't saw Nazis as oppressors, but as someone who really care. Of course Nazis weren't altruistic with all of that - they cared because East Prussians voted for them, because of "Drang nach Osten" and "Lebensraum" propaganda, and of course because of military reasons.
__________________

Mruczek, Highcliff, mar04 liked this post

Last edited by Dolsilwa; June 1st, 2013 at 11:47 AM.
Dolsilwa no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 1st, 2013, 02:20 PM   #982
Depeched
Registered User
 
Depeched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Vilnius
Posts: 1,356
Likes (Received): 1090

Konigsberg/Kaliningrad. 1960 new "locals"


Музей города Кёнигсберг

Konigsberg 1930 - 1940

Музей города Кёнигсберг


Музей города Кёнигсберг

__________________
>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA




loloo, Highcliff liked this post
Depeched no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 1st, 2013, 02:32 PM   #983
veresk
Registered User
 
veresk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,784
Likes (Received): 2859

it's just unbearable to see that beauty in the pictures and see what Koenigsberg/Kaliningrad is nowadays...
__________________
Тем, кто родился на берегу моря, всегда дует ветер странствий. От него деревья не колышутся, зато души трепещут...

kaspis, TimothyR, iMaciek, Highcliff liked this post
veresk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2013, 12:21 AM   #984
Dzwonsson
Neen, man!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Rotterdam
Posts: 3,893

@Dolsilwa: that's exactly what I had in mind when I stated that the German nationalism was rather common under the Masurians. Indicating that being an extreme nationalist is somehow equal to supporting Holocaust is absolutely incomprehensible, especially considering that even by early 1941 it was still unclear what would happen to the ghetto and camp prisoners. Also, stating that the Polish speaking community would vote for Poland if it was much more advanced both economically and politcally is too much of a guess.
Dzwonsson no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2013, 02:33 AM   #985
TimothyR
Ike
 
TimothyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Born in NYC, Living in Boston
Posts: 1,264
Likes (Received): 2085

Is east Prussia the same as Masuria?
__________________

“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

“The meaning of earthly existence lies not, as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering but in the development of the soul.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

"We are more closely connected to the invisible than to the visible"

-Novalis
TimothyR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2013, 11:52 AM   #986
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeched View Post

Konigsberg 1930 - 1940

Музей города Кёнигсберг


Музей города Кёнигсберг

Oh man, we lost Vienna 300 km. from Vilnius. Konstantinas cries.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2013, 11:56 AM   #987
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyR View Post
Is east Prussia the same as Masuria?


Masuria, Varmia, Minor Lithuania...

And prior to that it was like:


I wonder, what happened to e.g. Galindians. Were they assimilated into Poles, after Poles Masovians began to settle in the area?
__________________

TimothyR, Highcliff liked this post
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2013, 12:01 PM   #988
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galindians
Quote:
Ptolemy was the first to mention the Galindians (Koine Greek: Galindoi - Γαλίνδοι) in the 2nd century AD. From the 6th/7th century until the 17th century the former central part of the Galindian tribe continued to exist as the Old Prussian clan of *Galindis. The language of the Old Prussians in Galindia became extinct by 17th century, mainly because of the 16th centuries influx of Protestants seeking refuge from Catholic Poland into Galindian area[citation needed] and German-language administration of Prussia.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2013, 12:04 PM   #989
Dolsilwa
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Passenheim
Posts: 11
Likes (Received): 16

And if you want to be even more precise:

__________________

TimothyR, Highcliff liked this post
Dolsilwa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 2nd, 2013, 11:32 PM   #990
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

The 135th anniversary of Miracle in Gietrzwałd/Dietrichswalde, Warmia










In the year 1877, according to the Catholics, Virgin Mary revealed to two little girls, Barbara Samulowska and Justyna Szafrańska. Virgin Mary appeared for several times, spoke Polish, and explained how important it is to pray and say the rosary. Since then, pilgrims have been coming (up to 1 million every year) to Gietrzwałd to see the picture of Virgin Mary and a miracle spring.

June 27, 1877
Our Lady appeared for the first time to Justyna when she was returning home with her mother after having taken an examination prior to receiving the First Holy Communion.

June 28, 1877
Barbara Samulowska also saw the ‘Bright Lady’ sitting on the throne with Infant Christ among Angels over the maple tree in front of the church while reciting the rosary. The girls asked "Who are you?" she answered, "I am the Blessed Virgin Mary of the Immaculate Conception!". "What do you require, Mother of God?", they asked, the answer was: "I wish you recite the rosary everyday!"

June 30, 1877
Justyna asked: "What You require Holy Mother"? and she heard the answer: "I require, so that you pray Rosary everyday!".

July 1, 1877
On this day, the children from the parish in Gietrzwałd received their First Holy Communion. Justyna asked during the prayer of Rosary under the maple-tree "Who are You?", and the Holy Mother answered: I am The Most Holy Virgin Mary Immaculately Conceived!"

July 3, 1877
The girls asked the Holy Mother "Whether the sick people who come here, will be healed?" The Holy Mother answered: "The miracle will happen, and after that the sick people will be healed", and later said: "Let the sick people pray Rosary".

July 28, 1877
On the question, what it means, if somebody swears falsely, the Holy Mother answered: "Such person is not deserving to go to Heaven, such person is induced to do it by Satan".

Aug 1, 1877
Barbara asked: "Whether the orphaned parishes will receive the priests soon?" – The Holy Mother answered: If people pray zealously, at the time the Church will not be persecuted, and the orphaned parishes will receive the priests!"

Sep 8, 1877
At about seven o’clock in the evening the Holy Mother blessed the spring and said the words: "Now, the sick people can take this water for their healing". Pilgrims have been taking healing water from it ever since.

Sep 16, 1877
At about five o’clock in the evening the Holy Mother blessed, at the beginning Her own figure in the small chapel, and after that She blessed all people who asked for it and all people. At the end, She said: "PRAY ROSARY ZEALOUSLY!"

Sept 16, 1877
The last apparition occurs.

Among many questions regarding health and salvation of various persons, the children also asked the following: "Will the Church in the Kingdom of Poland set free?" "Will the deserted parishes in southern Warmia receive their priests soon?" They heard in reply: "Yes, if people pray ardently, then the Church will not be oppressed, and the deserted parishes will receive the priests!"

And more photos from Gietrzwałd/Dietrichswalde, Warmia...




















__________________

TimothyR, smugler, WB2010, Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; July 20th, 2014 at 11:56 AM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2013, 08:02 AM   #991
TimothyR
Ike
 
TimothyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Born in NYC, Living in Boston
Posts: 1,264
Likes (Received): 2085




Interesting post.
__________________

“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

“The meaning of earthly existence lies not, as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering but in the development of the soul.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

"We are more closely connected to the invisible than to the visible"

-Novalis

Highcliff liked this post
TimothyR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2013, 08:14 AM   #992
TimothyR
Ike
 
TimothyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Born in NYC, Living in Boston
Posts: 1,264
Likes (Received): 2085

KonstantinasŠirvydas and Dolsilwa - Thank you for the information.
__________________

“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

“The meaning of earthly existence lies not, as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering but in the development of the soul.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

"We are more closely connected to the invisible than to the visible"

-Novalis

Highcliff liked this post
TimothyR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2013, 08:23 AM   #993
veresk
Registered User
 
veresk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,784
Likes (Received): 2859

Is there anyone from Poland or Lithuania who has any relation to organizations devoted to the cultural heritage?
__________________
Тем, кто родился на берегу моря, всегда дует ветер странствий. От него деревья не колышутся, зато души трепещут...
veresk no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 3rd, 2013, 11:41 PM   #994
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

One of the most devastating episodes in Warmia's history was a plague, which killed many inhabitants of this region between 1708 and 1711. There are a lot of monuments, temples, chapels, altars, etc. built in gratitude for relief from a plague.

Just a few examples...

The Holy Cross Church in Lidzbark Warmiński/Heilsberg (erected on the initiative of Bishop Andrzej Chryzostom Załuski)






Sanctuary in Chwalęcin/Stegmannsdorf (consecrated by Bishop Jan Krzysztof Szembek in 1728)




Monuments in Olsztyn/Allenstein built to commemorate the victims of the plague epidemic

* The Statue of Christ holding a globe, at the square at the Church of the Holiest Heart of Jesus the Lord, is the oldest Olsztyn monument (it was commissioned in 1737).
* The Figure of the Passion of Christ with the Polish inscription „follow me” from the 18th century.
__________________

smugler, TimothyR, Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; June 4th, 2013 at 10:53 AM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2013, 11:10 AM   #995
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

The largest percentage of former East Prussians stayed in the following regions after WW2 (1950 census):
* Olsztyn/Allenstein district (powiat), Warmia - 62,1% of total population; 24,220 people
* Mrągowo/Sensburg district (powiat), Masuria - 52,9% of total population; 19,739 people
__________________

smugler, Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; June 4th, 2013 at 10:58 PM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2013, 05:48 PM   #996
Dzwonsson
Neen, man!
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Rotterdam
Posts: 3,893

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyR View Post
Is east Prussia the same as Masuria?
East Prussia was a Prussian/German province created after the 1st partition of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (1772) by merging the so-called Ducal Prussia (the Hohenzollern Duchy of Prussia) and Ermland that prior to 1772 was a part of the Commonwealth's province of Royal Prussia. East Prussia was consisted of three various historical regions: Ermland, Masuria and (old) Prussia.
Dzwonsson no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2013, 09:56 PM   #997
ast-1989
Registered User
 
ast-1989's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Königsberg / Moscow
Posts: 1,325
Likes (Received): 4446

Insterburg
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
ast-1989 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2013, 01:19 AM   #998
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

Protestant Church in Mrągowo/Sensburg, Masuria (built in 1734, destroyed during WW2, rebuilt in 1952-1961)






__________________

smugler, TimothyR, Highcliff liked this post

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; June 5th, 2013 at 01:37 AM.
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2013, 01:37 AM   #999
RS_UK-PL
Registered User
 
RS_UK-PL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: R-L1029
Posts: 2,301
Likes (Received): 3392

Town Hall in Mrągowo/Sensburg, Masuria (built in 1825)




__________________

smugler, Highcliff liked this post
RS_UK-PL no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2013, 03:33 AM   #1000
Mruczek
Warrior of Excel
 
Mruczek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Outside Blue Banana
Posts: 10,427
Likes (Received): 13455

Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
The largest percentage of former East Prussians stayed in the following regions after WW2 (1950 census):
* Olsztyn/Allenstein district (powiat), Warmia - 62,1% of total population; 24,220 people
* Mrągowo/Sensburg district (powiat), Masuria - 52,9% of total population; 19,739 people
Since 1950, many things changed

You have Warmia & Mazury,
And we have Warmiaks & Mazurians
(popular in West Germany in 1970s, 1980s)
__________________
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. Winston Churchill
Z archiwum Mruczka:
Buk Miłosław Szamotuły
Barcelona Budapeszt Grodno Kowno Madryt Moskwa Ukraina

Highcliff, mar04 liked this post
Mruczek no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
königsberg, polska

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu