daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > European Classic Architecture and Landscapes

European Classic Architecture and Landscapes All related to historical buildings and landscapes of the old world.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 8th, 2013, 11:07 PM   #1121
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

VIII-IX centuries.

www.istorija.net/
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 9th, 2013, 12:22 AM   #1122
Dolsilwa
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Passenheim
Posts: 11
Likes (Received): 16

Once again Lithuanians and Poles are united against common enemy - this time it's Dolsilwa!! Oh i feel like Ulrich von Jungingen (and i think i'll fall like him, under united strikes of Poles and Lithuanians)

Ok, first to Konstantinas - there is much more royal Polish-Lithuanian documents written in Latin - does that makes us all Roman?

No, it means that some of us known Latin. And some of us did not, that's why there are documents in Polish, Lithuanian and Russian/Ukrainian (i don't know how to translate Ruski).

And You say "Of course. But before this, it was Baltic Prussia for 2000 or 2800 years"

Ok, and there were Celts all over the Europe

And where are celts today? Where were they in XIX, XV, X century? Ireland... maybe.

But i'm not saying that there were no lithuanian speaking Prussians,
or polish speaking Prussians,
or german speaking Prussians,
or mazurian speaking Prussians,
or russian speaking Prussians,
or french speaking Prussians,
or gaelic (or english) speaking Prussians from Scotland
or even prussian speaking Prussians

Even more - i can admit that there were lots of lithuanian speaking settlers in east of Prussia like there were lots of polish speaking settlers in south of Prussia, but it doesn't make them Lithuanians or Poles - because concept of nationality comes from XIX century!! Where are those Prussian Lithuanians? Or Prussian Poles? Well, they emigrated to Germany like the rest of East Prussians (oh i know that some of them stayed, but it was how many? 10% 15%)

And to RS_UK-PL -

I can also admit that Westpreussen and Warmia were under polish reign for a lot of time, even more - it was directly part of Poland from 13-years war untill partitions of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwelth, but again - for most of time - It was Prussia.
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
Dolsilwa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 12:58 AM   #1123
Prosp
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 437
Likes (Received): 348

Prussian Lithuanians or lietuvninkai were very important for lithuanians. They played a major role, maybe this is why we are looking to prussian heritage very sensitive? Despite pro-german background, they made many attempts to modernize GDL (because of jesuits and their bullshit (quite funny by the why ), we hand less developed school net and so on). I think You have heard about such persons like Abraomas Kulvietis, Stanislovas Rapalionis, Martynas Mažvydas, Kristijonas Donelaitis etc. They are important to germans and lithuanians. Who were they? Prussians (german culture), lithuanians? Culturally lithuanians. In many cases they rejected their a la german nationality
Despite the fact, that many prussians/prussian lithuanians lived in north/east part of Prussia, strong relationship with proper Lithuania (GDL; lithuanian speaking territories) remained. Except confession, similar language, similar life-style, similar traditions.

By the way, i have an old neighbour whose family came from Prussia (after WWII). he belongs to group of persons called "wolf kids". What's interesting, that he looks/acts like a true german (hobbies, clothes etc.), but he doesn't call himself a german. yes, he still is in love with german culture, but that's all.

Where are all those prussian lithuanians? Like many lithuanians from Lithuania, after WWII they do not wanted to live in "heaven of communism". Simple.
Prosp no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 12:59 AM   #1124
Don Vito KurDeBalanz
zdradziecka morda
 
Don Vito KurDeBalanz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kanaliopolis
Posts: 2,666
Likes (Received): 18893

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolsilwa View Post
Once again Lithuanians and Poles are united against common enemy - this time it's Dolsilwa!! Oh i feel like Ulrich von Jungingen (and i think i'll fall like him, under united strikes of Poles and Lithuanians)
Negative Ulrich, it's not unity against you. It's rather unity against manipulation and lack of some history knowledge. Example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolsilwa View Post
That's right, Malbork was build by Poles... oh wait - it didn't. Malbork was won by Poland in 13-years war,
Sorry my man, just can't trust somebody who doesn't know basics. Malbork has never been won by Poland. It was just bought by King of Poland from unpaid Czech knights. Simple is that
__________________

smugler, Highcliff liked this post
Don Vito KurDeBalanz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 01:11 AM   #1125
Dolsilwa
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Passenheim
Posts: 11
Likes (Received): 16

And i don't say i know everything. But again, why those Czech knights were unpaid? Because Teutonic order lost 13-years war... So was i really that wrong? All in all Teutonic Knights lost Malbork because they lost in 13-years war.

But yes - i can't say i know all the details ;-)
Dolsilwa no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 01:37 AM   #1126
Urbanista1
Here and Now
 
Urbanista1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,426
Likes (Received): 5285

Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeched View Post
I think nobody try to explain that Prussia was not German country from XIII c. until 1945. Hard question were is propaganda, where you saw this?
I don't understand why here is so small part of Germans. We (Poles and Lithuanians) firstly interested in our culture heritage in this land.
About relationships between Lithuanians and Poles I could say that there is thin line between a good and a bad relationship. Bad side starts when we start to talk about Vilnius occupation, but I saw a lot of Poles who understand Lithuanians.
trust me we do understand and respect you, it's just that we get hung up on little details. getting angry is part of the discussion when we try to sort out history between us. we know very well that much of Poland's greatness was Polish-Lithuanian, we wil not forget this, but some will try to minimize it on both sides.
__________________
ten rząd wstrząsa podstawami naszej państwowości i funkcjonowania społeczeństwa. Natomiast większość społeczeństwa śpi, nie zwraca uwagi, co się dzieje i trzeba je z tego snu obudzić - Piotr S


Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

smugler, Highcliff liked this post
Urbanista1 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 02:13 AM   #1127
Prosp
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 437
Likes (Received): 348

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolsilwa View Post
Germans as majority in Warmia before end of XVIII century? Ok...
Here's what i think: Poles and Lithuanians - stop your propaganda, it's pointless. What do you want to achieve? Both lithuanian and polish sources are biased, and in my opinion proves nothing (german sources are also biased but.. well, it was german country over all).

And i'm really amazed how Lithuanians and Poles hates each other, and i can't understand why? Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów - Republic of Both Nations - Polish-Lithuanian Commonwelth (or Lithuanian-Polish if you want) - it's true that in Poland not many teachers explain that it was not only Poland but also Lithuania, and we like to say "Poland this..." "Poland that..." "Poland was great until XVIII century", but the smarter part of polish nation understands that it was not Poland, but Republic of BOTH Nations. And Prussia was not polish feud but feud of Commonwelth. And above all - Ostpreussen has nothing to do with both Poland and Lithuania. Prussia managed to conquest us BOTH. Memelland and Pomerania, and Greater Poland... ok, that are yours and ours territories, but Ostpreussen was Ostpreussen, and for me it doesn't matter if people there was talking Prussian or Masurian, Polish or Lithuanian - because official language was German.

It is Alsace and Lorraine all over again...
In this case (bold) I guess we need a saparate thread. This is not the right thread to discuss about Lithuania and Poland, nor about GDl/Commonwealh.
I think we have to much of stereotypes about each country and we lack of knowledge, particularly about cultural and social differences of nations...However, sadly, but sometimes it makes difficulties.
Commonwealth was a state of nobles, not of ordinary people, who were majority. Taking into account well known fact that lithuanians were always ...self-isolated and traditional people, we do not know about Poland/polish culture many interesting/ or must-know facts and dont understand polish culture like You do not know/understand ours.
At the moment our relationships can describe a term - strategic partnership. Someone will say that relationship is between hate and love, but i wont agree with that.
Lithuanian geopolitical link has changed. We are looking more...North? There is our place. More easier, more culturally understandable.
Prosp no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 02:42 AM   #1128
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolsilwa View Post
Ok, first to Konstantinas - there is much more royal Polish-Lithuanian documents written in Latin - does that makes us all Roman?
This is exactly what Lithuanians tell Poles, but they always reply "everything was Polskie"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolsilwa View Post
Where are those Prussian Lithuanians? Or Prussian Poles? Well, they emigrated to Germany like the rest of East Prussians (oh i know that some of them stayed, but it was how many? 10% 15%)
Mostly praying in Kirches. In Lithuanian.
Sometimes writing some stuff. In Lithuanian.
In more rare situations, teaching Lithuanian in the university, giving lectures.

Yes, it is difficult to say, how they understood themselves. In the 20th century, Masurians voted for Germany, Memellanders (51%) were split between "Lithuanians" (53% of Lith) and "Memelers" (47% of Lith) and 47% called themselves Germans.

But really. Where are now these Prussian Lithuanians?
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 03:20 AM   #1129
Saxonia
Registered User
 
Saxonia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Res publica Banana
Posts: 1,057
Likes (Received): 7404

Everywhere :O. My surname is Prussian-Lithuanian, in my old school class where also 2 other ones with surnames of these origin and one of them is even mayor of Berlin (Klaus Wowereit). Which means "Eichhörnchen", squirrel in english.
__________________

KonstantinasŠirvydas, Highcliff liked this post
Saxonia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 03:29 AM   #1130
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

Yes, this is well known fact with Wowereit. Also with, e.g.

Was quite popular surname in North Eastern Prussia - Krauledat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kay_(musician)
http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Krauledat_(Familienname)

But I meant, Prussian Lithuanian dialect is extinct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia...ans#Lithuanian
There is no more such group.
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 04:50 AM   #1131
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

http://viduramziu.istorija.net/etno/ruhig-de.htm
Quote:
Philipp Ruhig
Betrachtung der Littauischen Sprache, in ihrem Ursprunge, Wesen und Eigenschaften
(Die Fragmente)
Das erste Capitel.
Von der Gelegenheit zu dieser Schrift.

Die Gelegenheit zu dieser Schrift hat mir der Anno 1702. zwischen einigen geschickten Littauischen Predigern anhaltende Streit gegeben, welcher über diese Frage entfund: Wie man Littauisch cum vulgo reden solle? Herr D. Friedr. Deutsch hatte solche, als Oberhofprediger, dem Pfarrern und Seniorn in Gumbinnen, Mich. Morlino, bewilliget; zween andere Prediger aber, namentlich, Jac. Perkuhn, in Walterkehmen, nochmaliger Erzpriester zu Insterburg, und Johann Keimel, Pfarrer zu Nemmersdorf, widersprachen denen Schriften Morlini schriftlich. Jener bezeugete, daß Morlinus nicht cum vulgo rede; dieser wollte eine Societatem Lituanico-philologicam zum Grunde haben. Ich studirte eben damals zu Königsberg, und machte mich für Herrn Morlinum partheyisch, durch eine Gratulation, so unter zehen Littauischen Fabeln gedruckt wurde, allwo den Fleiß desselben also rühmete: Gumbinnen wird gewiß wie Orleans gepriesen, und unser Littausch Rom, Athen und Breßlau seyn. In währendem Streite wurde, als ein Candidatus Ministerii Lituanici, in Königsberg, oft zum Herrn D. Deutsch gerufen, und wegen einiger vorkommenden speciellen Sreitsfragen in der Littauischen Sprache befraget, und endlich mir aufgelegt, ich solle mich in der Sprache üben, und etwas davon schreiben. Ich bediente mich dazu derer publiqven und privaten Bibliothecken. Als ich aber Anno 1708. zum Predigtamt hergeschickt wurde, ward, durch Pest und andere Plagen, meiner Schrift ein Stillschweigen aufgelegt, bis durch GOTTes Gnade die neue Uebersetzung der Bibel und Lieder herfür kam, und auch mir aufgetragen wurde; da denn etliche vornehme Gönner mir anriethen, diese meine Gedanken zu publiciren, wozu aber die Lateinische Sprache, darinnen sie verfaßet war, hinderlich fiele; daher ich solche, auf eines vornehmen Gönners in Königsberg Rath, so ferne es die Kräfte zugelaßen, Deutsch übersetzet, und nunmehro wünsche, daß es zu wahrer Beurtheilung dieser Sprache vielen Lesern nützen, und einige, die nebst ihr, auch Polnisch, Griechisch und Rußisch verstehen, aufmuntern möge, die Sache genauer auszuführen. Ich werde meine gute Meynung mit dem etwanigen Rabbinischen Urtheil: Du hast dich in tiefe Waßer eingelaßen, und Muschelschaalen herfür gebraucht, zu verschonen bitten.
Das zweyte Capitel.
Von dem Worte: Littauen, oder Littauisch.

Die Littauische Sprache wird genennet von dem Orte und Völkern, welche diese Sprache gebrauchen, in dem Großfürstenthum Littauen und Semaiten, aber auch in etlichen Districkten des Königreichs Preußen, als Sallavonien, Nadrauen, Natangen, in denen Hauptämtern Insterburg, Ragnit, Tilse, Labiau, und theils auch anderen. (...)
Das neunte Capitel.
Noch von einigen Unverwandten der Littauischen Sprache.

(...)
Die alte Preußische Sprache ist mit der Littauischen auch verwandt. Außer der jetzigen Curländischen, kann man von ihr aus dem Altpreußischen Catechismo urtheilen, da zwar einige eigene, dennoch die mehreste Littauische Worte mit Deutschen, Polnischen und Lateinischen vermenget gewesen. Unter die eigene gehöret aus dem 1545 gedruckten Preußischen Catechismo: Nascilie der Geist. Unter dit Littauischen, in jedem Gebot: Tu tur; tu ne tur, du sollt; du sollt nicht. Ferner: Kittans Diewans turretwey, ist: Kittus Diewus turreti, und so ferner. Zu den Deutschen gehöret, z. E. im zehenden Gebot, adder, heißet oder; Im zweyten Articul: Jungprawa, heißet Jungfrau. Zum Polnischen gehöret im zweyten Gebot Emnen, Imię, der Name. Zum Lateinischen, im zehenden Gebot: Peku, pecus, das Vieh.
Hierbey wird nicht verdrüßlich seyn, auch einige Preußische mit dem Littauischen übereinkommende Wörter zu lesen, die Praetorius aus Grunovio anführet, welche aber noch nicht ausmachen, ob diese beyde als dialecti, subdialecti, oder mit vernünftigen analogischen Grammatischen Gründen von einander unterschiedene Sprachen seyn. Z. E.Preußisch. Littauisch. Deutsch.
Angol Angels der Engel
Maista Miestas die Stadt
Caymo Kiemas Dorf
Wunda Wanduo Waßer
Pewo Pywas Bier
Wizga Awiza Haber
Walge Walgikit' eßet
Wyms Wemk köcken, sich brechen
Craga Krugas Krug oder Kanne
Docti Dukte Tochter
Tawe Tews Vater
Deyn Deina Tag
Widra Wetra Wind, Sturm
Galbo Galwa das Haupt
Rancko Ranka Hand
Grekoy Griekai Sünden
Pasoggu Pasninks die Fasten
Meikte Megas der Schlaf
Labbis Lobis Güter
Paute Pautas ein Ey
Gnapsen Knapes Hanf
Woikello Waikelis ein Knab, Junge
Lapimma Lepimmas Befehl
Comatir Kūmas Gevatter
Mergus Merga Magd
Warum Waras Kupfer


Ob die Littauische Sprache ein dialectus der Preußischen sey, wie Hartknoch, pag. 56. schreibet, und die Preußische aus der Lateinischen herkomme, wie er pag. 98. meynet, mögen die Gelehrten ausmachen. Anno 1545. schreibet der Autor der Vorrede des angeführten Catechismi, wie die damalige Littauen mit den unterschiedenen dialectis der Preußen sich verstehen. (...)
Das dreyzehnte Capitel.
Von der Weite und Breite der Littauischer Sprache.

Ob sich zwar die Littauische nicht sonderlich breit machen kann, wie vormals die Lateinische, oder nunmehre die Deutsche oder Französische, so hat sie dennoch nicht allein den engen Ort im Preußischen Littauen ein, welcher aus etlicher Hauptamtern bestehet, als Insterburg, Labiau, Ragnit, Tilsit (darinnen das Sclavonien auf accuraten Karten scheinet Sallavonia zu heißen, von dennen daseihit vielen Sallos, oder befindlichen Inseln,) und Memel; sondern ersirecket sich auch durch das ganze Semaiten und Großherzogthum Littauen. Zu geschweigen, daß auch in andern Orten von Preußen, gegen Königsberg, dieselbe sich eindringet, und gepredigt wird. Man verachtet aber diese Sprache ohne Grund, daß sie von andern zusammen geflicket sey, zumal solches auch andern Sprachen wiederfähret, ohne, daß siie doch darum nicht ohne einer analogia Grammat. befunden werden. Indeßen geschiehet der Gebrauch aus dem Deutschen und Polnischen oft von denen sich damit prahlenden Littauern, ohne Noth, wenn sie z. E. für grecznas Arklys, ßtotliks stattlich, sagen: für ne tinka, nesißikkawoja es schickt nicht, und dergleichen. Inmittelst hat diese Sprache so viel eigene Wörter, Redensarten, und ordentliche unalogische Strucktur, daß, wenn wenige Polnisch- oder Deutschverwandte Wörter ausgenommen werden, es dennoch eine Sprache bleibt; wie Holländisch vielweniger ohne Deutsch, und Französisch ohne Latein, bestehen kann.

(Quelle: Betrachtung der Littauischen Sprache, in ihrem Ursprunge, Wesen und Eigenschaften : Aus vielen Scribenten, und eigener Erfahrung, mit Fleiß angestellet, und zu reiferer Beurtheilung der Gelehrten, zum Druck gegeben / von Philipp Ruhig, Pharrern und Seniore zu Walterkehmen, im Hauptamt Insterburg. - Königsberg: druckts und verlegts Johann Heinrich Hartung, 1745. - 88 s. [Seiten: 3-5, 51-54, 66-67])
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 04:52 AM   #1132
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_Ruhig
Quote:
Philipp Ruhig

Philipp Ruhig (Lithuanian: Pilypas Ruigys, Latin: Philippus Ruhigius) (March 31, 1675— June 4, 1749) was a Lutheran priest from East Prussia mostly known as a philosopher and philologist, an early expert in Lithuanian language.

Major works

1745: "Betrachtung der Littauischen Sprache, in ihrem Ursprunge, Wesen und Eigenschaften"
1747: "Littauisch-Deutschen und Deutsch-Littauischen Lexicon"
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 03:22 PM   #1133
Depeched
Registered User
 
Depeched's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Vilnius
Posts: 1,356
Likes (Received): 1090

Quote:
Originally Posted by KonstantinasŠirvydas View Post
Yes, this is well known fact with Wowereit. Also with, e.g.

Was quite popular surname in North Eastern Prussia - Krauledat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kay_(musician)
http://wiki-de.genealogy.net/Krauledat_(Familienname)

But I meant, Prussian Lithuanian dialect is extinct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia...ans#Lithuanian
There is no more such group.
I really dislike when in Lithuania many people still don't understand what is Minor Lithuania, of course it is consequence of soviet education system which always tried to erase Minor Lithuania and Prussia from people minds.
One of example of misunderstanding when someone raises a flag of Samogitia in Klaipėda/Memel or in Nida/Nidden. But there is other part of people who still understand Memelland as a former part of Germany. Some old people even during soviet period still called Memelland as part of Germany. An example of which I have heard: old women from Kretinga always said to other people when she traveled to Klaipėda that she goes to Germany.
__________________
>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA




Highcliff, Atasas liked this post
Depeched no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 9th, 2013, 05:32 PM   #1134
Mruczek
Warrior of Excel
 
Mruczek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Outside Blue Banana
Posts: 10,438
Likes (Received): 13464

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dolsilwa View Post
And i don't say i know everything. But again, why those Czech knights were unpaid? Because Teutonic order lost 13-years war... So was i really that wrong? All in all Teutonic Knights lost Malbork because they lost in 13-years war.
To be precise: Teutonic Order was doing quite good on the field and was usually winning against the Commonwealth. However, the Teutonic Order was unable to pay its debts. 13-Year War is good example of situation, in which A conquers B because of A's economic superiority, in spite of all efforts of B

Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeched View Post
I really dislike when in Lithuania many people still don't understand what is Minor Lithuania, of course it is consequence of soviet education system which always tried to erase Minor Lithuania and Prussia from people minds.
One of example of misunderstanding when someone raises a flag of Samogitia in Klaipėda/Memel or in Nida/Nidden. But there is other part of people who still understand Memelland as a former part of Germany. Some old people even during soviet period still called Memelland as part of Germany. An example of which I have heard: old women from Kretinga always said to other people when she traveled to Klaipėda that she goes to Germany.
I wouldn't overestimate it. My friends sometimes say, while travelling from Warsaw to Poznan, that they're going from Russia to Germany

Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeched View Post
Map of Lithuanian language until 1700
It would be nice to see another map from for example 1720. Btw, what was the mortality rate during 1709-11 epidemic? It seems to me that it changed the language proportions for ever. This is certainly true for southern part of East Pr.
__________________
We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us. Winston Churchill
Z archiwum Mruczka:
Buk Miłosław Szamotuły
Barcelona Budapeszt Grodno Kowno Madryt Moskwa Ukraina

smugler, Highcliff liked this post
Mruczek no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2013, 11:32 AM   #1135
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
It would be nice to see another map from for example 1720. Btw, what was the mortality rate during 1709-11 epidemic? It seems to me that it changed the language proportions for ever. This is certainly true for southern part of East Pr.
Orange columns - dead from the plague (one millimeter of column = 1000 people; 1 column~10 000 people).
Dark green - absolute majority Lithuanian speaking.
Light green - majority.
Yellow - around half.
Orange - minority.
__________________

Highcliff, Atasas liked this post

Last edited by KonstantinasŠirvydas; July 10th, 2013 at 03:57 PM.
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2013, 11:53 AM   #1136
Prosp
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 437
Likes (Received): 348

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post

It would be nice to see another map from for example 1720. Btw, what was the mortality rate during 1709-11 epidemic? It seems to me that it changed the language proportions for ever. This is certainly true for southern part of East Pr.
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussia

Quote:
Approximately one-third of East Prussia's population died in the plague and famine of 1709–1711,[5] including the last speakers of Old Prussian.[6] The plague, probably brought by foreign troops during the Great Northern War, killed 250,000 East Prussians, especially in the province's eastern regions. Crown Prince Frederick William I led the rebuilding of East Prussia, founding numerous towns. Thousands of Protestants expelled from the Archbishopric of Salzburg were allowed to settle in depleted East Prussia. The province was overrun by Imperial Russian troops during the Seven Years' War.
Prosp no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2013, 04:06 PM   #1137
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

Ethnographische Karte von Europa. Berghaus, Heinrich, 1847
Full map http://www.davidrumsey.com/maps5308.html
Author: Berghaus, Heinrich
Date: 1847
Short Title: Ethnographische Karte von Europa.
Publisher: Gotha: Justus Perthes
Full Title: Ethnographische Karte von Europa. Auf F.v. Stulpnagel's geogr. Feichnung Zusammengestellt von Potsdam Im Marz 1845; im Stich vollendet November 1846, von Madel II in Weimar. Gotha, bei Justus Perthes. 1847.
Published In: Dr. Heinrich Berghaus' Physikalischer Atlas oder Sammlung von Karten, auf denen die hauptsachlichsten Erscheinungen der anorganischen und organischen Natur nach ihrer geographischen Verbreitung und Vertheilung bildlich dargestellt sind ... 1845. Verlag von Justus Perthes in Gotha ... 1848 ...

Fragment:
[IMG]http://i42.************/dffx36.jpg[/IMG]
__________________

Highcliff, Atasas liked this post
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2013, 10:13 PM   #1138
Index_LT
Registered User
 
Index_LT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Biržai
Posts: 341
Likes (Received): 499

Guys. Isn't this thread about the architecture of the former Eastern Prussia? "Places & heritage", you know.

It doesn't matter which side is right but there is just too much of trying to prove that it "is mostly of x nations heritage".
__________________
Сьогодні я українець.
Index_LT no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2013, 11:14 PM   #1139
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

Cultural figures, who lived in some of these places in Eastern Prussia and their deeds. local culture of the people - ain't heritage? Well, okay.

From now on, everyone: Strictly only buildings (and ruins of some buildings).
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 10th, 2013, 11:17 PM   #1140
KonstantinasŠirvydas
BANNED
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,993
Likes (Received): 1110

Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeched View Post
One of example of misunderstanding when someone raises a flag of Samogitia in Klaipėda/Memel or in Nida/Nidden.
Minor Lithuania has it's own flag. And anthem (written by German, BTW).
__________________

Highcliff liked this post
KonstantinasŠirvydas no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
königsberg, polska

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu