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Old August 26th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #101
JValjean
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Oh man! Don't mix up Prussia in 17th, 18th and early 19th century with the politics of Bismarck’s Empire or the Nazi reign.

And nationalism was widespread all over Europe in the second half of the 19th and in the early 20th century.

here some information about Frederick the Great

Quote:
Frederick generally supported religious toleration, including the retention of Jesuits as teachers in Silesia, Warmia, and the Netze District after their suppression by Pope Clement XIV…

He was interested in attracting a diversity of skills to his country, whether from Jesuit teachers, Huguenot citizens, or Jewish merchants and bankers, particularly from Spain…

Thus, he accepted countless Protestant weavers from Bohemia, who were fleeing from the devoutly Catholic rule of Maria Theresa. Frederick granted the weavers freedom from taxes and military service...

Frederick repeatedly emphasized that nationality and religion were of no concern to him... (wikipedia)

Here's an interesting BBC documentary
"Frederick the Great and the Enigma of Prussia"


Last edited by JValjean; August 26th, 2012 at 01:27 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 01:31 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by JValjean View Post
Oh man! Don't mix up Prussia in 17th, 18th and early 19th century with the politics of Bismarck’s Empire or the Nazi reign.

And nationalism was widespread all over Europe in the second half of the 19th and in the early 20th century.

here some information about Frederick the Great
And more:
"Following the partitions of Poland, the previous Germanisation attempts pursued by Frederick the Great in Silesia were naturally extended to encompass the newly gained Polish territories. The Prussian authorities started the policy of settling German speaking ethnic groups in these areas. Frederick the Great settled around 300,000 colonists in the eastern provinces of Prussia and aimed at a removal of the Polish nobility, which he treated with contempt and likened the 'slovenly Polish trash'."
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Old August 26th, 2012, 01:38 PM   #103
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*del*

Sorry that I participated on this off-topic excess!

Last edited by JValjean; August 26th, 2012 at 01:55 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 02:00 PM   #104
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Christian Ludwig von Kalckstein - sentenced to death in January 1672 and beheaded at Memel on 8 November 1672 during Frederick William's reign...

Before death, Christian wrote a letter to his son: "learn Polish, and secure yourselves in Poland for there is no place for us left in the now enslaved Prussia".

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; August 26th, 2012 at 07:20 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 02:40 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Christian Ludwig von Kalckstein - sentenced to death in January 1672 and beheaded at Memel on 8 November 1672 during Frederick William's reign..."learn Polish, and secure yourselves in Poland for there is no place for us left in the now enslaved Prussia".
And what it mean?
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Old August 26th, 2012, 02:49 PM   #106
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Partitions of Poland-Lithuania were just what were started after 1655.
After 1717 Poland-Lithuania became state protectorate, sattelite state by Russia.
Almost all ethnic Poland became part of other states, not Russia, just for miracle, where reign was absolutely smaller than in Russia occupied territories. And why to be angry for Germany or Austria, If we (Both Nations Republic) couldn't fix our state for noblemans democracy.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 03:29 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeched View Post
And what it mean?
Christian Ludwig von Kalckstein was a Prussian count, Colonel, and politician, born in Preußisch Eylau/Bagrationovsk. He was owner of lands near Mühlhausen/Gvardeyskoye.

Christian was against "autonomy" of Duchy of Prussia/Ducal Prussia under Brandenburg rulers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Prussia) and because of that he was sentenced to death. AFAIR, we were talking about Prussian tolerancy.

Map of Ducal Prussia:





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Old August 26th, 2012, 05:31 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JValjean View Post
*del*

Sorry that I participated on this off-topic excess!
why is the truth uncomfortable? we have it instilled in our DNA what it means to be Polish, it's not easy, why do you think we have become so distrustful and why do moronic ultra right wing politicians like Kaczynski get even a 20%of votes...because we are tired of not being able to live in peace as Poles, being attacked every few generations and always having someone question whether our land is really ours, whether we have a culture. It's not easy on the psyche having a super rich and powerful neighbour although very peaceful now question if anything good Poland ever accomplished was really German in fact and that we are incapable of producing anything worthy, we know this is nonsense but a lot of these threads sound like this.

I have no problem admitting to the German or Lithuanian influence in our region and cultural contribution, I also have no problem with Germans or others living and thriving today in Poland, but I expect the same respect for Polish cultural achievements in Wilno (Vilnius), Lwow (Lviv).

I have met many good Germans and they knwo the history of this region very well, the impact of Bismarcks kulturkampf etc and its no big deal, it does not need to be a point of contention. Drang nach Osten and the Ostseidlung have been a force in German culture in the past and it affected this region greatly, but that's history, now it's different. Poles pushed east into Ruthenian lands, we accept that. German president Herzog asked Poland for forgiveness and I believe an earlier President said "we ask for forgiveness and we forgive." Recently Russian and Polish churches asked for forgiveness so people could move forward, Poland asked for forgiveness for Jedwadne etc etc. So in this climate why is it that in these forums there is backward revisionism or an inability to accept certain historic truths and get on with the picture show.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

Last edited by Urbanista1; August 26th, 2012 at 05:47 PM.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 06:29 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JValjean View Post
Yes he was and what's your prurpose by asking this? Many brilliant Germans were of "jewish descent"
Nothing, it just reminded me of the quote from Albert Einstein:
'If my theory of relativity is proven right the Germans will call me a German, the Swiss will call me a Swiss citizen, and the French will call me a great scientist.
If my theory is proven wrong the French will call me a Swiss, the Swiss will call me a German and the Germans will call me a Jew
.'

As I understand, Max Born was successful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JValjean View Post
You mix up German and Germanic
I used the term 'Germanic' on purpose, because I think there had been no German national identity until 19th c.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puritan View Post
Gerhart Hauptmann

- Museum "Dom Gerharta Hauptmanna" in Jelenia Góra
http://www.muzeum-dgh.pl/

...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puritan View Post
Gerhart Hauptmann

- Museum "Dom Gerharta Hauptmanna" in Jelenia Góra
http://www.muzeum-dgh.pl/

...
Spot the difference.
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Old August 26th, 2012, 10:31 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puritan View Post
Gerhart Hauptmann

- Museum "Dom Gerharta Hauptmanna" in Jelenia Góra
http://www.muzeum-dgh.pl/

- G.Hauptmann street - Słubice
- G. Hauptmann place - Szczawno Zdrój

Max Born
Commemorative plaque - Wrocław
Max Born square - Wrocław
Max Born bust - Wrocław University

Arthur Schopenhauer

A.Schopenhauer street - Gdańsk
A.Schopenhauer plaque - Gdańsk
A.Schopenhauer Park - Gdańsk
A. Schopenhauer bust - Gdańsk University

Streets, parks, schools, monuments named after Fahrenheit, T.Mann, Goethe, Schiller, Beethoven, Luter, Hacken, Adenauer etc.

definition of Ignorance for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorance
Oh you are right, I forgot those little plagues and sidestreets. Like Ulica Artura Schopenhauera, this 50m long side street on the outskirts for one of the biggest sons of the city. Or the place in Szczawno Zdrój for the biggest son of the town, which isn't even recognizable as a place.
Sorry, but after this new and impressive monument for Boleslaw Chrobry in Wroclaw, which I love so much because it reminds me of the most kitschy and embarrassing monuments of the German Empire (and I thought these times were over), I expected something, you know, bigger. If a Pole spends one night in Wroclaw and gets a plaque, someone who spent his life there and actually did something for the city should get something more... at least a dead end in the city centre.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 12:40 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by Karasek View Post
Oh you are right, I forgot those little plagues and sidestreets. Like Ulica Artura Schopenhauera, this 50m long side street on the outskirts for one of the biggest sons of the city. Or the place in Szczawno Zdrój for the biggest son of the town, which isn't even recognizable as a place.
Sorry, but after this new and impressive monument for Boleslaw Chrobry in Wroclaw, which I love so much because it reminds me of the most kitschy and embarrassing monuments of the German Empire (and I thought these times were over), I expected something, you know, bigger. If a Pole spends one night in Wroclaw and gets a plaque, someone who spent his life there and actually did something for the city should get something more... at least a dead end in the city centre.
I'm only showing your lack of knowlege.

no Schopenhauer/Hauptmann/Bohr street/place in Poland- evil Poles
1 Hauptamnn place in Szczawno Zdrój - not prestigious enough
1 Schopenhower street in Gdańsk - not enough, it's too small
Schopenhower museum - not enough
Schopenhower commemorative plaque - to small
Schopenhower bust - probably ugly and kitschy
Schopenhowet tram - not possible in Poland
+ ugly B.Chrobry monument ( btw. he founded the Diocese of Wrocław in ca. 1000)

Stop whining - in almost every post about Poland you tend to underestimate Polish culture influence from Silesia to Masuren from Middle Ages to XXI century

Ps. Feel free to post any example of "a Pole spends one night in Wroclaw and gets a plaque."

Specially for you - Gdańsk and Hansa heritage- Deutsche Welle
http://mediacenter.dw.de/german/vide...in_der_Ostsee/
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Old August 27th, 2012, 12:07 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
why is the truth uncomfortable? we have it instilled in our DNA what it means to be Polish, it's not easy, why do you think we have become so distrustful and why do moronic ultra right wing politicians like Kaczynski get even a 20%of votes...
Well, the point is that you and your compatriots hitchhiked again a harmless thread. It’s not about insulting Poland or decreasing the influence of Polish culture in neighboring countries.

This thread was opened with a short, innocent and - yes - with a true introduction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeched View Post
East Prussia
Former rich region in eastern side of Baltic sea.
Created on former balts and slavonics lands became one of the most beautiful part of Germany
.
There’s nothing wrong or insulting with these words!
And it was you, who came up with this Nazi-thing as would East-Prussia have been the result of a Nazi conquest!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
I have no problem admitting to the German or Lithuanian influence in our region and cultural contribution, I also have no problem with Germans or others living and thriving today in Poland, but I expect the same respect for Polish cultural achievements in Wilno (Vilnius), Lwow (Lviv).
But here’s not the right place to discuss about Vilnius (Wilno) and Lwow (Lviv, Lemberg). Be free to open a thread about the history of these cities and the Polish influences upon them. But do it in an objective way!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
I have met many good Germans and they knwo the history of this region very well, the impact of Bismarcks kulturkampf etc and its no big deal,...
Well "Kulturkampf" describes Bismarcks “policies in relation to secularity and the influence of the Roman Catholic Church”, so no direct Anti-Polonism here and it ended in 1880.

[...]

But again this all should be discussed in a separate thread, not here!

Last edited by JValjean; August 27th, 2012 at 01:11 PM.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 12:28 PM   #113
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Otto von Bismarck quote:
"Hit the Poles so hard that they despair of their life; I have full sympathy with their condition, but if we want to survive, we can only exterminate them; the wolf, too, cannot help having been created by God as he is, but people shoot him for it if they can."
Letter to his sister Malwine (26/14 March 1861)

"The Polish language was banned from public, and ethnically Polish children tortured at schools for speaking Polish (see: Września). Poles were subjected to a wave of forceful evictions (Rugi Pruskie, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_deportations). The German government financed and encouraged settlement of ethnic Germans into those areas aiming at their geopolitical Germanisation. The Prussian Landtag passed laws against Catholics."

If this is not anti-polonism, I don't know what is...

JValjean, my post is regarding what you wrote about Otto von Bismarck and peaceful Germanisation process previously. I see that you've changed your post, so my answer seems to be not related with text above

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Old August 27th, 2012, 03:57 PM   #114
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"peaceful germanization" of East Prussia lands resulted in the extinction of the whole nation of Baltic-Prussian. But not only them, in Eastern Germany disappeared from the surface of the earth more nations. Peaceful Germans tried also to take possesion of lands inhabited by Czech, Romanian, Polish or even Russian people...

In contemporary Poland there is no problem with showing the past of these lands. You can only add that we show only the effects of the German occupation of these areas forgetting the commemoration of the original inhabitants.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 04:42 PM   #115
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I haven't seen much pictures of Ostpreußen (ante and post war). But based on all of the pictures in this thread, it looks like an impressive piece of German territory with a nice mix of architectural styles.
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Old August 27th, 2012, 04:57 PM   #116
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Wow, I come to this thread wanting to see some nice old architecture, and surprise surprise.....it's been hijacked by nationalists and retards. Talk about typical...
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Old August 27th, 2012, 06:26 PM   #117
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Let's continue main idea of this thread. It is about current region of Kaliningrad district. Russia.

Names of Settlements in Lithuania Minor/Eastern Prussia

Rucken. Rukai. Lithuania

Renovated Rucken/Rukai Lutheran church











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Old August 27th, 2012, 09:48 PM   #118
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nice
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Old August 27th, 2012, 09:59 PM   #119
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Konigsberg. Kaliningrad. Russia.

How it is and how is was



pre-war view of this place



--------------------



pre-war view



--------------------




http://www.facebook.com/myownkonigsberg
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Old August 27th, 2012, 10:08 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JValjean View Post
Well, the point is that you and your compatriots hitchhiked again a harmless thread. It’s not about insulting Poland or decreasing the influence of Polish culture in neighboring countries.
So go ahead and post the pics of German heritage in Kaliningrad & Lithuania. Fullstop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marbur66 View Post
Wow, I come to this thread wanting to see some nice old architecture, and surprise surprise.....it's been hijacked by nationalists and retards. Talk about typical...
Then get outta here, pal.
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