Former East Prussia/ Ostpreußen/ Rytų Prūsija/ Prusy Wschodnie/ Восточная Пруссия. Places & heritage.

[Puritan]

Originally Posted by Karasek

Oh you are right, I forgot those little plagues and sidestreets. Like Ulica Artura Schopenhauera, this 50m long side street on the outskirts for one of the biggest sons of the city. Or the place in Szczawno Zdrój for the biggest son of the town, which isn't even recognizable as a place.
Sorry, but after this new and impressive monument for Boleslaw Chrobry in Wroclaw, which I love so much because it reminds me of the most kitschy and embarrassing monuments of the German Empire (and I thought these times were over), I expected something, you know, bigger. If a Pole spends one night in Wroclaw and gets a plaque, someone who spent his life there and actually did something for the city should get something more... at least a dead end in the city centre.

I'm only showing your lack of knowlege.

no Schopenhauer/Hauptmann/Bohr street/place in Poland- evil Poles
1 Hauptamnn place in Szczawno Zdrój - not prestigious enough
1 Schopenhower street in Gdańsk - not enough, it's too small
Schopenhower museum - not enough
Schopenhower commemorative plaque - to small
Schopenhower bust - probably ugly and kitschy
Schopenhowet tram - not possible in Poland
+ ugly B.Chrobry monument ( btw. he founded the Diocese of Wrocław in ca. 1000)

Stop whining - in almost every post about Poland you tend to underestimate Polish culture influence from Silesia to Masuren from Middle Ages to XXI century

Ps. Feel free to post any example of "a Pole spends one night in Wroclaw and gets a plaque."

Specially for you - Gdańsk and Hansa heritage- Deutsche Welle
http://mediacenter.dw.de/german/vide...in_der_Ostsee/

[JValjean]

Originally Posted by Urbanista1

why is the truth uncomfortable? we have it instilled in our DNA what it means to be Polish, it's not easy, why do you think we have become so distrustful and why do moronic ultra right wing politicians like Kaczynski get even a 20%of votes...

Well, the point is that you and your compatriots hitchhiked again a harmless thread. It’s not about insulting Poland or decreasing the influence of Polish culture in neighboring countries.

This thread was opened with a short, innocent and - yes - with a true introduction.

Originally Posted by Depeched

East Prussia
Former rich region in eastern side of Baltic sea.
Created on former balts and slavonics lands became one of the most beautiful part of Germany.

There’s nothing wrong or insulting with these words!
And it was you, who came up with this Nazi-thing as would East-Prussia have been the result of a Nazi conquest!

Originally Posted by Urbanista1

I have no problem admitting to the German or Lithuanian influence in our region and cultural contribution, I also have no problem with Germans or others living and thriving today in Poland, but I expect the same respect for Polish cultural achievements in Wilno (Vilnius), Lwow (Lviv).

But here’s not the right place to discuss about Vilnius (Wilno) and Lwow (Lviv, Lemberg). Be free to open a thread about the history of these cities and the Polish influences upon them. But do it in an objective way!

Originally Posted by Urbanista1

I have met many good Germans and they knwo the history of this region very well, the impact of Bismarcks kulturkampf etc and its no big deal,...

Well "Kulturkampf" describes Bismarcks “policies in relation to secularity and the influence of the Roman Catholic Church”, so no direct Anti-Polonism here and it ended in 1880.

[...]

But again this all should be discussed in a separate thread, not here!

[RS_UK-PL]

Otto von Bismarck quote:
"Hit the Poles so hard that they despair of their life; I have full sympathy with their condition, but if we want to survive, we can only exterminate them; the wolf, too, cannot help having been created by God as he is, but people shoot him for it if they can."
Letter to his sister Malwine (26/14 March 1861)

"The Polish language was banned from public, and ethnically Polish children tortured at schools for speaking Polish (see: Września). Poles were subjected to a wave of forceful evictions (Rugi Pruskie, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_deportations). The German government financed and encouraged settlement of ethnic Germans into those areas aiming at their geopolitical Germanisation. The Prussian Landtag passed laws against Catholics."

If this is not anti-polonism, I don't know what is...

JValjean, my post is regarding what you wrote about Otto von Bismarck and peaceful Germanisation process previously. I see that you've changed your post, so my answer seems to be not related with text above

[Barto_S]

"peaceful germanization" of East Prussia lands resulted in the extinction of the whole nation of Baltic-Prussian. But not only them, in Eastern Germany disappeared from the surface of the earth more nations. Peaceful Germans tried also to take possesion of lands inhabited by Czech, Romanian, Polish or even Russian people...

In contemporary Poland there is no problem with showing the past of these lands. You can only add that we show only the effects of the German occupation of these areas forgetting the commemoration of the original inhabitants.

[Godius]

I haven't seen much pictures of Ostpreußen (ante and post war). But based on all of the pictures in this thread, it looks like an impressive piece of German territory with a nice mix of architectural styles.

[Marbur66]

Wow, I come to this thread wanting to see some nice old architecture, and surprise surprise.....it's been hijacked by nationalists and retards. Talk about typical...

[Depeched]

Let's continue main idea of this thread. It is about current region of Kaliningrad district. Russia.

Names of Settlements in Lithuania Minor/Eastern Prussia

Rucken. Rukai. Lithuania

Renovated Rucken/Rukai Lutheran church

[TheReconstructer]

nice

[Depeched]

Konigsberg. Kaliningrad. Russia.

How it is and how is was



pre-war view of this place



--------------------



pre-war view



--------------------




http://www.facebook.com/myownkonigsberg

[ja.centy]

Originally Posted by JValjean

Well, the point is that you and your compatriots hitchhiked again a harmless thread. It’s not about insulting Poland or decreasing the influence of Polish culture in neighboring countries.

So go ahead and post the pics of German heritage in Kaliningrad & Lithuania. Fullstop.

Originally Posted by Marbur66

Wow, I come to this thread wanting to see some nice old architecture, and surprise surprise.....it's been hijacked by nationalists and retards. Talk about typical...

Then get outta here, pal.

[Depeched]

Originally Posted by ja.centy

So go ahead and post the pics of German heritage in Kaliningrad & Lithuania. Fullstop.

You can say what do you want, but will be photos, of course, also and from current Poland.

[ja.centy]

I can't wait then.

[Judge Roy Beam]

Originally Posted by Marbur66

Wow, I come to this thread wanting to see some nice old architecture, and surprise surprise.....it's been hijacked by nationalists and retards. Talk about typical...

Well, the pictures are what really make this thread worthwhile.

As for the commentary, I've found some of it (from both sides) to be quite educational. But then again, I've always been rather good at tuning out the background noise when listening to, or engaging in, political debate

[RS_UK-PL]

Actually, today's Elblag has nothing to do with East Prussia because the city was almost completely wiped out during WW2 (only 6 tenement houses out of over 300 survived the war).

For example Zamkowa Street view that you've posted previously...

Elbing


Elblag


I would love to see more reconstructions there, because most of the Old Town was built under Polish rule (so no problem with "rebuilding German cultural heritage", just focus on the pre-1772 architecture when city was second largest port in Kingdom of Poland) and there were so many fine examples of Dutch Mannerism and Gothic architecture (many demolished in 19th century). At the end of 18th century some streets were as beautiful as in Danzig/Gdansk.

Amazing 17th century Royal House reconstruction (many Polish kings like Wladyslaw IV, August II, Stanislaw Leszczynski had lived in this place)


Hercules Well (built in honour of John III Sobieski), Old Town City Hall (with latin inscription over the main entrance "Sigismundus regia sceptra gerens[...]"), entrance gates (Kowalska, Mlynska decorated with Polish and Royal Prussian coat of arms), etc. should have been reconstructed as well.

[JValjean]

Here are some pics from a Russian site (www.kng750.kanet.ru) about contemporary Kaliningrad and pre-war Königsberg:

1937


1949

www.kng750.kanet.ru

1939
"Königsberg: Der Blick von Süden auf das Schloss und den Kaiser-Wilhelm-Platz."
(View from south to the castle and to the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Platz)



2005
"Kaliningrad: Der Blick von der Brücke auf das Einkaufszentrum «Staraja Baschnia» ("Der alte Turm"). Zurzeit werden hier archäologische Ausgrabungen des Schlossfundaments durchgeführt."
(View from the bridge to the shopping mall «Staraja Baschnia» / “The Old Tower”)



1939
"Königsberg: Die evangelische Kathedrale wurde als befestigte Kirche auf der Kneiphofinsel gebaut. Die Ostwand ist 3 Meter dick. Der Bau der Kathedrale begann ungefähr im Jahre 1332."
(The Protestant cathedral was erected as a fortified church… The constructions works began in 1322)



2005
"Kaliningrad: Der Blick von der Brücke auf den Dom auf der Kantinsel."
(View from the bridge to the Cathedral on the Kant-island)



1939
"Königsberg: Der Blick auf den Kneiphof, den Dom und die alte Universität von der Holzbrücke aus."
(View to the Kneiphof, the Cathedral and to the old university – seen from the wooden bridge)



2005
"Kaliningrad: Der Blick von der Brücke auf den Dom auf der Kantinsel."

[Judge Roy Beam]

Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL

Actually, today's Elblag has nothing to do with East Prussia because the city was almost completely wiped out during WW2 (only 6 tenement houses out of over 300 survived the war).

Interesting how some cities were damaged more than others.

Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL

I would love to see more reconstructions there, because most of the Old Town was built under Polish rule (so no problem with "rebuilding German cultural heritage..."

Yes, God forbid anything like that might happen


.

[RS_UK-PL]

Originally Posted by Judge Roy Beam

Yes, God forbid anything like that might happen

Why we should try to wake up German nationalists like Karasek?

Probably you don't know, but during East Prussian rule most of the Old Town in Elbing/Elblag was modernised (decorations, ornaments removed from the houses) or demolished (like some amazing Gothic houses for example) and I have to say that I like pre-19th century architecture much more (especially Dutch Mannerism).

Kowalska Street before modernisation in 19th century:


Kowalska Street after modernisation:


Pre-1772 facades are very well documented, so I don't really know why they shouldn't be reconstructed (ah yes, for the sake of crappy modernism, retroversion).

BTW, Elblag Old Town in 1970s:

[JValjean]

Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL

Probably you don't know, but during East Prussian rule most of the Old Town in Elbing/Elblag was modernised (decorations, ornaments removed from the houses) or demolished (like some amazing Gothic houses for example)...

You might not know it but "historiciste re-modelings" of buildings took place in many German cities in the 19th and early 20th century. East-Prussians cities weren't an exception here. And it wasn't only a German phenomenon.

...

[RS_UK-PL]

Originally Posted by JValjean

You might not know it but "historiciste re-modelings" of buildings took place in many German cities in the 19th and early 20th century. East-Prussians cities weren't an exception here. And it wasn't only a German phenomenon.

...

Of course, I know that...But it doesn't mean that I liked this process. I'm not a big fan of modernism. The Royal Route in Gdansk/Danzig looks so much better with pre-1793 facades and I really believe that Elblag/Elbing would have been more beautiful with reconstructed pre-1772 tenement houses.

[TheReconstructer]

Originally Posted by JValjean

Here are some pics from a Russian site (www.kng750.kanet.ru) about contemporary Kaliningrad and pre-war Königsberg:

1937


1949

www.kng750.kanet.ru

1939
"Königsberg: Der Blick von Süden auf das Schloss und den Kaiser-Wilhelm-Platz."
(View from south to the castle and to the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Platz)



2005
"Kaliningrad: Der Blick von der Brücke auf das Einkaufszentrum «Staraja Baschnia» ("Der alte Turm"). Zurzeit werden hier archäologische Ausgrabungen des Schlossfundaments durchgeführt."
(View from the bridge to the shopping mall «Staraja Baschnia» / “The Old Tower”)



1939
"Königsberg: Die evangelische Kathedrale wurde als befestigte Kirche auf der Kneiphofinsel gebaut. Die Ostwand ist 3 Meter dick. Der Bau der Kathedrale begann ungefähr im Jahre 1332."
(The Protestant cathedral was erected as a fortified church… The constructions works began in 1322)



2005
"Kaliningrad: Der Blick von der Brücke auf den Dom auf der Kantinsel."
(View from the bridge to the Cathedral on the Kant-island)



1939
"Königsberg: Der Blick auf den Kneiphof, den Dom und die alte Universität von der Holzbrücke aus."
(View to the Kneiphof, the Cathedral and to the old university – seen from the wooden bridge)



2005
"Kaliningrad: Der Blick von der Brücke auf den Dom auf der Kantinsel."

There are plans to rebuild the houses of the Kneiphof (around the Königsberger Dom). But I don't know if that's still going to happen

http://www.altstadt.com/

Also Kaliningrad wants to rebuild the former Königsberger Schloß, and at this subject I also don't know if that's still going to happen....