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Old May 28th, 2015, 04:39 PM   #1861
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Quote:
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No interior plumbing, so there's a port-a-potty?
I think they faithfully preserved the German state of the building so crap-in-the-woods it is.
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Old May 29th, 2015, 12:10 PM   #1862
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Mazury widziały wojnę - Portrety i wspomnienia (Szczytno, 14/05/2015)



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Old May 29th, 2015, 05:37 PM   #1863
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II Dni Gizewiusza (Ostróda/Łęguty, 16-27 May 2015)



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Lutheran and methodist churches in Masuria and Warmia
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Old May 29th, 2015, 06:48 PM   #1864
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Excellent thread. Hopefully it would not be premature for me to ask you what your emerging hypothesis is connection with all the fascinating research you are conducting on history and genetics. What sort of picture can you summarize is emerging at this point. Pozdrawiam
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Old May 29th, 2015, 09:29 PM   #1865
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My predictions are as follows:
- Central Europeans in the early Middle Ages have descended predominantly from the inhabitants of Central Europe in the Roman times;
- The Völkerwanderung from Central Europe was very much exaggerated since the late 18th century (due to the political bias, growing nationalism) and never actually happened on a massive scale;
- Germania and Sarmatia in the Roman times ≠ ethnic states - "There are many tribes of Germani, varied in their weaponry, differing in the color of their clothes, of mutually incomprehensible languages, and with uncertain etymologies of their names" (Isidore of Seville)

In the recent years genetic research was significantly improved (subclades analysis), this should help us with better understanding of human migration. Results from ongoing projects, such as "Dynastia i społeczeństwo państwa Piastów w świetle zintegrowanych badań historycznych, antropologicznych i genomicznych" (Marek Figlerowicz) or Iron Age/Middle Ages Y-DNA comparison by Janusz Piontek will shed some light on the history of the Central Europeans.

For example, genetic map of Britain...


...or location of some West Slavic and Lechitic/pra-Polish tribes (e.g. Vyatichs, Radimichs) who migrated from Central Europe to Ukraine and Russia sometime before the year 885...


...and R1a-M458 (so-called West Slavic marker) distribution map


Excerpts from "The Primary Chronicle" (ca.850-1110)
Quote:
Of these same Lyakhs some were called Polyanians, some Lutichians, some Mazovians, and still others Pomorians.
Quote:
(...) the Radimichians and the Vyatichians sprang from the Lyakhs. There were in fact among the Lyakhs two brothers, one named Radim and other Vyatko. Radim settled on the Sozh', where the people are known as Radimichians, and Vyatko with his family settled on the Oka. The people there were named Vyatichians after him.
Quote:
(...) Slavic tribes preserved their own customs, the law of their forefathers, and their traditions, each observing its own usages. For the Polyanians retained the mild and peaceful customs of their ancestors, and showed respect for their daughters-in-law and their sisters, as well as for their mothers and fathers. For their mothers-in-law and their brothers-in-law they also entertained great reverence. They observed a fixed custom, under which the groom’s brother did not fetch the bride, but she was brought to the bridegroom in the evening, and on the next morning her dowry was turned over (...) The Radimichians, the Vyatichians, and the Severians had the same customs. They lived in the forest like any wild beast, and ate every unclean thing. They spoke obscenely before their fathers and their daughters-in-law. There were no marriages among them, but simply festivals among the villages. When the people gathered together for games, for dancing, and for all other devilish amusements, the men on these occasions carried off wives for themselves, and each took any woman with whom he had arrived at an understanding. In fact, they even had two or three wives apiece. Whenever a death occurred, a feast was held over the corpse, and then a great pyre was constructed, on which the deceased was laid and burned. After the bones were collected, they were placed in a small urn and set upon a post by the roadside, even as the Vyatichians do to this day.


Quote:
(885) Oleg sent messengers to the Radimichians to inquire to whom they paid tribute. Upon their reply that they paid tribute to the Khazars, he directed them to render it to himself instead, and they accordingly paid him a shilling apiece, the same amount that they had paid the Khazars. Thus Oleg established his authority over the Polyanians, the Derevlians, the Severians, and the Radimichians, but he waged war with the Ulichians and the Tivercians.
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Old May 30th, 2015, 01:27 AM   #1866
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what has emerged about migratory patterns of people we know today as Poles, their homogeneity/heterogeneity and the history of their peregrinations based on new DNA advances. I'm starting to put together what all this info means so I can follow with greater understanding.
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Old May 30th, 2015, 05:29 PM   #1867
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I really think these ethnological stuff should be posted somewhere else than on an architecture forum
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Old May 31st, 2015, 06:39 AM   #1868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pofoka View Post
In memoriam city of Königsberg
The "happy time of peace" in Königsberg

Does anyone know what place in Konigsberg the photo was?
Clicking it links to the poster's photosite, which has no info.
It could be a gated mausoleum, (note skull) next to a church possibly (note stained glass window.)

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Old June 1st, 2015, 03:39 PM   #1869
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Maybe it's one of the chapels of the Cathedral?
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Old June 1st, 2015, 05:27 PM   #1870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Lutheran and methodist churches in Masuria and Warmia
Its one incurrency in this map: Lidzbark Welski (Lautenburg) with surroundings lies in former West Prussia and it isnt in Mazury. But thats true: that part of Pomorze/Mazury border was settled by catholic and lutheran polish-speaking people fro both sides of prussian provinces. For example catholics from Mazury came to church in Rumian (former kreis Lubau, West Prussia) on masses.

And again: less DNA, more hertige.
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Old June 2nd, 2015, 05:49 AM   #1871
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I think the DNA studies to some extent complement the subject matter of this thread, shedding light and giving insight into the complex ethnic nature of this region which in many ways is a microcosm of central Europe. I would like to see RS UK-PL develop his thesis as long as on balance there is some connection to the physical cultural traits of the region.
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Old June 3rd, 2015, 11:38 AM   #1872
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The last few pages contain the earliest accounts of probable Old Prussian (and other Balts) ancestors called Aestii, Ests, Aisti, etc., and their neighbours known as Sclavi, Suevi, Sclaveni, Venethi, Wends, Veneti, Winidi, Winedi, Venadi, Wandali, Vandali, Vinða, Venða, etc.

"Vita Karoli Magni" (Einhard, ca.817-833)


Quote:
Sinus quidam ab occidentali oceano orientem versus porrigitur, longitudinis quidem inconpertae, latitudinis vero quae nusquam centum milia passuum excedat, cum in multis locis contractior inveniatur. Hunc multae circumsedent nationes; Dani siquidem ac Sueones, ques Nordmannos vocamus, et septentrionale litus et omnes in eo insulas tenent. At litus australe Sclavi et Aisti et aliae diversae incolunt nationes; inter quos vel praecipui sunt, quibus tunc a rege bellum inferebatur, Welatabi (...)
Quote:
A gulf [the Baltic] of unknown length, but nowhere more than a hundred miles wide, and in many parts narrower, stretches off towards the east from the Western Ocean. Many tribes have settlements on its shores; the Danes and the Swedes, whom we call Northmen, live along the northern shore [of the sea]. The Sclavi, Aisti and other peoples live along the southern shore. The Welatabi were the most prominent of these peoples (...)


Quote:
omnes barbaras ac feras nationes, quae inter Rhenum ac Visulam fluvios oceanumque ac Danubium positae, lingua quidem poene similes, moribus vero atque habitu valde dissimiles, Germaniam incolunt, (...); inter quas fere praecipuae sunt Welatabi, Sorabi, Abodriti, Boemani – cum his namque
Quote:
all the wild and barbarous tribes dwelling in Germania between the Rhine and the Vistula, the Ocean and the Danube, (...) speak very much the same language [West Slavic/Slavic], but differ widely from one another in customs and dress. Among these people the Welatabi [Veleti], Sorabi [Sorbs], Abodriti [Obodrites], and Boemani [Bohemians] are of special importance

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Old June 4th, 2015, 10:39 PM   #1873
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Part of german history always also have been slavic people and groups, just nazis tried to change it, so plz lets stopp this race/ DNA stuff.

my grandparents come from slesia and they and I also have slavic, polnish, russian and other blood, like many people in germany, specially in Prussia, but also in austria, etc.

If someone says, half germany has slavic influence , so its not german..., actually followes the Nazi way of thinking, I think.
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Old June 5th, 2015, 06:40 AM   #1874
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I agree with you Ludi to a certain extent,I think what is being attempted here is to show the ethnic complexities that exist in this huge region of central Europe which is the opposite of what Nazis tried to do, which was to eliminate this diversity culturally and physically. RS UK-PL is showing us irrefutable proof via DNA (which is not susceptible to propaganda) how diverse Prussia is and that no one group can rightfully claim it as theirs, everyone contributed something. This by extension applies to the heart of Europe and really supports the EU project where we all have a rightful place and all of our contributions should be respected.
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Old June 5th, 2015, 08:14 PM   #1875
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The renovation project of Potocki's palace in Braniewo/Braunsberg (Warmia) was completed...

I couldn't find any actual photos yet.

The revitalised Elblag/Elbing Canal (52 mln PLN project was completed on 30/05/2015)...





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Old June 7th, 2015, 09:48 AM   #1876
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Old Market and Copernicus Canal in Frombork/Frauenburg (Warmia) are being revitalised...

(photo by TomaszFrk)


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New projects in Elk/Lyck, Masuria (Brama Mazur, Villa Park, Copernicus Park)









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Old June 7th, 2015, 12:15 PM   #1877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Just a few trees, no green areas at all, no flowers, no flowerbeds. Everything with Polbruk-type paving and stone. Revitalisation in Poland at its best

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludi View Post
Part of german history always also have been slavic people and groups, just nazis tried to change it, so plz lets stopp this race/ DNA stuff.

my grandparents come from slesia and they and I also have slavic, polnish, russian and other blood, like many people in germany, specially in Prussia, but also in austria, etc.

If someone says, half germany has slavic influence (...)
Poor Germany
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Old June 8th, 2015, 12:02 PM   #1878
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Szlakiem rdzennych Mazurów - Ocalić od zapomnienia (now available online)




The wooden house of the Rautenberg family (built in 1856, Mrs Brygida Rautenberg below) and water tower from the 19th century in Kajny/Kainen, Warmia



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Old June 8th, 2015, 04:32 PM   #1879
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Renovated Town Hall's tower in Barczewo/Wartenburg, Warmia (05/06/2015)





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Old June 9th, 2015, 02:19 PM   #1880
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In addition to the following posts: #1653, #1206, #1227...


Onufryjewo/Onufrigowen, Masuria



Quote:
Repression and persecution resulting from the rejection of the liturgical reforms of Patriarch Nikon introduced in the Russian Orthodox Church in the second half of XVII century, led a group of so-called Old Believers – the followers of the "old faith" – to seek for another place and to leave Russia. Some of them, at the end of the XVIII century came to Suwalki Region, where migrating further west came in the first half of XIX century to Masuria (Prussia), where they settled, founding some (neighboring) villages. Nearly 200-year presence of the Old Believers in these lands permanently changed the landscape and local tradition. Unique architecture, quaint customs, rituals and beliefs, and most of all religion, are the three elements that distinguish the Masurian village inhabited by Old Believers from neighboring settlements. This remarkable difference may soon be forgotten, so the attention should be paid to the initiatives and projects undertaken by the local community, local authorities and non-governmental organizations, which are designed to protect the dying culture of Old Believers.
"Traces of Masurian Old Believers" by Marcin Kozieł

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