Ludgate and Sampson House | Southwark | approx 165m | Pre-planning

[hifive605]

excellent form and massing, great dialogue with the surroundings. Facades at the Back dull but for prominent ones clean and interesting. Most importantly this project has VISION and ambition

[Mr Bricks]

Is it really wise to have cluster of skyscrapers so close to the Thames? Looks awkward and makes the river looks smaller, sort of like a tunnel. If this trend continues, in a few decades you'll have a glass wall stretching all the way from Vauxhall to London Bridge. What do Londoners say about this?

[LondonFox]

Bring it on!

[i_like_concrete]

Yes, if this trend continues and all of the historic and culturally important buildings along the Thames are destroyed then I guess that would be the result, a glass Venice! How exciting.

[Mr Bricks]

^There are countless crappy old post-war buildings along the South Bank i.e. lots of potential for redevelopment. Historic buildings hemmed in by skyscrapers is nothing new in London.

[DarJoLe]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

Is it really wise to have cluster of skyscrapers so close to the Thames? Looks awkward and makes the river looks smaller, sort of like a tunnel.

But it will never be a tunnel, because it is highly unlikely anything of this height will be built opposite, or in fact anywhere from Southwark Bridge to Westminster Bridge on the north bank.

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

If this trend continues, in a few decades you'll have a glass wall stretching all the way from Vauxhall to London Bridge. What do Londoners say about this?

I would imagine most simply would not care. As for myself, bring it on. It will make a nice counterpoint to the stale, timid architecture along the north bank.

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

^There are countless crappy old post-war buildings along the South Bank i.e. lots of potential for redevelopment. Historic buildings hemmed in by skyscrapers is nothing new in London.

I wouldn't say countless. A few by London Bridge, one or two by Southwark Bridge, a handful heading to Vauxhall. The rest have already been renovated, are being, or are listed.

[Mr Bricks]

Originally Posted by DarJoLe

But it will never be a tunnel, because it is highly unlikely anything of this height will be built opposite, or in fact anywhere from Southwark Bridge to Westminster Bridge on the north bank.

Yeah the North Bank is different so I guess tunnel is the wrong term.

Originally Posted by DarJoLe

I would imagine most simply would not care. As for myself, bring it on. It will make a nice counterpoint to the stale, timid architecture along the north bank.

I think most people would say Victoria Embankment is the most successful part of the river banks. Around Millennium Bridge it is grim though.

Originally Posted by DarJoLe

I wouldn't say countless. A few by London Bridge, one or two by Southwark Bridge, a handful heading to Vauxhall. The rest have already been renovated, are being, or are listed.

I would say 90% of what was built after the war between London Bridge and Westminster Bridge is crap.

I think one of the greatest things about the Thames is its width and the fact that it is lined with low-rise buildings which make the river and its surroundings feel airy and spacious. That is something worth saving. In my opinion most buildings along the Thames should be between 4-8 storeys tall (with some exceptions). Modern takes on old warehouses and wharves (sort of what the Dutch, the Germans and the Poles are doing) would be a great idea, lining the river with shops, bars, restaurants and apartments instead of huge structures that would make the Thames feel narrow, dark and depressing.

[ill tonkso]

Indeed, buildings should step down to it like a valley as opposed to a canyon.

[i_like_concrete]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

I think most people would say Victoria Embankment is the most successful part of the river banks. Around Millennium Bridge it is grim though.

Victoria Embankment a success!? You are joking right? It's a six lane motorway for almost its entire length.

The Southbank is by far the most successful part of the riverbank, it has everything necessary to make it an enjoyable and buzzing place to be, which is why it is full of people and the North bank is full of cars. Have you ever been there?

I think one of the greatest things about the Thames is its width and the fact that it is lined with low-rise buildings which make the river and its surroundings feel airy and spacious. That is something worth saving. In my opinion most buildings along the Thames should be between 4-8 storeys tall (with some exceptions). Modern takes on old warehouses and wharves (sort of what the Dutch, the Germans and the Poles are doing) would be a great idea, lining the river with shops, bars, restaurants and apartments instead of huge structures that would make the Thames feel narrow, dark and depressing.

Yes, we should abandon what is making the Southbank a thriving success and embark on turning it into Wapping, that well known centre of culture and vibrancy.

[Julian141]

The only clusters that are sitting right next to the Thames are Vauxhall, Blackfriars and maybe Canary Wharf with its proposed Riverside and City Pride buildings. Considering how many talls it takes to create a cluster I don't think it would have a "tunnel" effect. It's worth remembering these Blackfriars developments join in with a wider Southback plan, making the whole riverside I better experience. I wouldn't want there to be just 4/5 story buildings against the Thames, I like the variation.

[Mr Bricks]

Originally Posted by i_like_concrete

Victoria Embankment a success!? You are joking right? It's a six lane motorway for almost its entire length.

The Southbank is by far the most successful part of the riverbank, it has everything necessary to make it an enjoyable and buzzing place to be, which is why it is full of people and the North bank is full of cars. Have you ever been there?

Indeed I found the South Bank to be a great busy place, however, aesthetically speaking it leaves much to be desired. Victoria Embankment is architecturally nice, grand and lined with trees. A potential boulevard.

Originally Posted by i_like_concrete

Yes, we should abandon what is making the Southbank a thriving success and embark on turning it into Wapping, that well known centre of culture and vibrancy.

Yes that is exactly was I said wasn't it?

[Ebeneezer_Goode]

Originally Posted by ill tonkso

Indeed, buildings should step down to it like a valley as opposed to a canyon.

Why?

[Langur]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

Yes that is exactly was I said wasn't it?

He has a point though. Wapping is more or less what you describe, yet it's as dead as a dodo next to Southwark. In fairness you did mention bars and restaurants, whereas Wapping only has the mid-density faux-warehouse apartments along the river.

Anyway I have to agree with others who ask why we need to have a uniform height along the riverfront, or indeed anywhere. Having the buildings step up doesn't always work. See how underwhelming the City appears from around HMS Belfast and you'll get what I mean.

[potto]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

I think most people would say Victoria Embankment is the most successful part of the river banks. Around Millennium Bridge it is grim though.

yes they will be the taxi drivers and the coach operators that use it as a convenient parking area

[Langur]

Originally Posted by potto

yes they will be the taxi drivers and the coach operators that use it as a convenient parking area

Or anyone who appreciates fine architecture, because it's certainly the best show along the Thames.

[potto]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

I think one of the greatest things about the Thames is its width and the fact that it is lined with low-rise buildings which make the river and its surroundings feel airy and spacious.

Only the promenade makes it feel spacious obviously, the promenade has been far more extensive on the South than on the North bank since the late 1970s.

With the dense clusters springing up along the South, West towards Battersea and East toward Canada Water you can only expect this promenade to be increased to a length surely unsurpassed in any city? The Victorian embankment looks pitiful by comparison.

[potto]

Originally Posted by Langur

Or anyone who appreciates fine architecture, because it's certainly the best show along the Thames.

yes but most people would rather look at the architecture from the South bank!

[alonzo-ny]

Originally Posted by ill tonkso

Indeed, buildings should step down to it like a valley as opposed to a canyon.

How boring.

[potto]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

I think one of the greatest things about the Thames is its width

I think you also vastily underestimating its length

[DeepThought]

The renders look good, IMO. Although the shorter tower on the riverfront needs to be budged a bit to the West so the approach to the old bridge piers can be safeguarded...if only...