National Graphene Institute | Booth Street East | 4 fl | App

[VDB]

Originally Posted by dannyb

Nevermind the UK Voldy, we need to keep this in Manchester, don't want the southerners getting their mitts on it!

Quite right.

[Awayo]

Volde has a victim complex.

[pixel2006]

Originally Posted by Cherguevara

Problem is we don't have the large technology companies to exploit its development. It's going to be American, Asian and other European companies that exploit it because in isolation its a fairly useless product.

The Greeks invented the steam engine, but never used it for anything because they didn't have any of the other infrastructure (factories, railed transport) to have made it useful. Sadly I think we're the same with this.

Is that the case? I read somewhere that we are still the 6th largest manufacturer in the world - its a relative decline from where we were, not that we don't build anything anymore. But I guess that doesn't necessarily mean they are right for graphene, which might be what you meant.

What about looking for a development partner, that as part of the deal has to locate in Manchester.

Finally, Apple (just become the richest company ever - beating Microsoft) has done quite well for itself outsourcing to China! This is good for the tax man not manufacturing jobs, although it could be good for design jobs.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by pixel2006

Is that the case? I read somewhere that we are still the 6th largest manufacturer in the world - its a relative decline from where we were, not that we don't build anything anymore. But I guess that doesn't necessarily mean they are right for graphene, which might be what you meant.

What about looking for a development partner, that as part of the deal has to locate in Manchester.

Finally, Apple (just become the richest company ever - beating Microsoft) has done quite well for itself outsourcing to China! This is good for the tax man not manufacturing jobs, although it could be good for design jobs.

I meant in terms of this saving the UK economy, as Fly implied it could. I'm sure we can benefit from the discovery, but I don't think we can control it and so benefit from it to such an extent.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by Awayo

Volde has a victim complex.

True, but he's 16. What's your excuse?

[LNGCats]

Also, pretty dam sure the material is not patented.

Sure the mechanisms for manufacturing it may well be, however, if a German company comes up with a cheap, efficient way to manufacture the stuff and then really good ideas about how to sell it there will be nowt anyone can do.

Bugger all for us to sell or not sell.

The only advantage we have is the concentration of knowledge in this area at the University, if, and it is a huge if, this material is useful economically be in no doubt the Chinese, the Germans, the Brazilians etc will all be getting into the same.

The Germans are not incredibly successful as the discover such materials, rather they are exceptional at taking raw materials, refining them to very high value products that are very high quality and selling them to the world.

Us in the UK and Manchester need to use this 'raw' material in the same manner - we have a head start over the rest of the world, but countries like Germany have enormous advantages in many other areas that help them develop such industries into world beaters that we will never be able to compete with.

Without getting into a thesis on the matter, consider that the UK population borrows money from UK banks who in turn borrow from markets, internationally - very low levels of money becoming available to invest in local businesses to allow them to invest so they can be world leaders in manufacturing.

Compare to German - a nation of savers - a nation where banks have savings to invest to make a return. Where do they invest? In local businesses to make them more profitable, making the bank more of a return.

We have some rather fundamental issues holding us back in areas such as exploiting the graphene - not overly confident that they will be over come either.

[Lookin Up]

Agree with some of the sentiments here. Graphene is a once in a lifetime opportunity to have a truly transformative effect on our city, region and country.

Let's not forget that amongst the many 'potentials' for this material is the potential to replace silicon in technology hardware. Think Silicon Valley.

However all this is still potential and the purpose of the Graphene Institute is to develop just what practical and productive uses it can be put to rather than those uses remaining 'potential'. Those uses may be patented.

Subsequent manufacture and integration into new designed or re-designed products will depend on existing and future manufacturers, most of which are not based in the UK.

What is certain however is that having the Graphene Institute in Manchester will bring the best and brightest brains in the field to our city and the 'hub' effect that will be created will make the city and the region an attractive place to make graphene commercially when the time comes.
Exciting times indeed.

The main risk as I see it is the usual snail pace procedures that we employ here in the UK. I mean it's going to be 2 years before all the planning, consultation (groan) and construction is completed. In that time the Chinese / Koreans / Japanese et al have got something similar (or better) up and running a year ahead of us and are churning out commercial stuff before some worthy here has even polished up the ceremonial ribbon-cutting scissors.
Having to wait so long also may give sufficient reason for key members of the research team to move to another university or research institute.
Get it built.

[Lookin Up]

Originally Posted by VDB

Quite right. I bet the government is already setting up plans for a "Graphene City" in East London.

Project 'Kill the Provinces' is in full swing down at Parliament HQ!

Voldy - just some friendly advice: don't ruin your career prospects by turning into a 'chip on the shoulder northerner'. Nobody outside the region will want to work with you.

People criticise Scousers for having a victim complex and a chip on their shoulder but we're not far behind tbh

Stay positive, change things, make them better. But don't blame the other guy when it doesn't always go your way.

[LNGCats]

Where are silicon chips designed?

Doubt it is silicon valley, that is more software isn't it?

Cambridge is the home to ARM who design chips, that are manufactured elsewhere.

Whilst it is great for Cambridge to be home to ARM, they don't employ thousands of people and the overall affect on the local economy is not huge.

If we are very very very lucky we will see an equivalent of ARM in Manchester in my opinion.

[Cherguevara]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Where are silicon chips designed?

Doubt it is silicon valley, that is more software isn't it?

Cambridge is the home to ARM who design chips, that are manufactured elsewhere.

Whilst it is great for Cambridge to be home to ARM, they don't employ thousands of people and the overall affect on the local economy is not huge.

If we are very very very lucky we will see an equivalent of ARM in Manchester in my opinion.

The used to be designed and built in Silicon Valley when the cluster originally formed, but that's been replaced by software over the intervening 50 years. However producing semiconductors and hardware was the foundation of the technology industry in the area.

At this stage we can't know what the practical applications of graphene will be, so it's a bit early to be speculation as to the potential benefits the city could accrue or what types of company will be formed. However given the economic history of this country of being one where our financial trading undermines investment in our industrial production I can't see this technology being a transformational one for the UK or Manchester more specifically.

[Lookin Up]

Originally Posted by Cherguevara

However given the economic history of this country of being one where our financial trading undermines investment in our industrial production I can't see this technology being a transformational one for the UK or Manchester more specifically.

You might be right Che but hope you're wrong.
Up till now nothing has given us the opportunity to change the way we do things. That's why our economy has been based on (often dodgy) financial services and is why we're in the current mess.

Just hope there are enough people withe vision to grasp the opportunity. Like I said, a graphene style opportunity comes round once a lifetime - if we're lucky.

[iheartthenew]

Originally Posted by VDB

PLEASE lets keep graphene in the UK. For once, Britain, PLEASE, don't sell it. PLEASE.

there's no patent on Graphene but there is a good opportunity for Manchester and the UK (alongside UofM) to make a lot of money from spin-off ideas from this discovery and our head start. It's too late to keep it in the UK, one of the biggest researchers into graphene is Samsung in Korea. I went to the Cafe Scientifique lecture about graphene at Kro on Oxford rd last month. I wish I remembered more it is pretty cool stuff

[VDB]

Originally Posted by Lookin Up

Voldy - just some friendly advice: don't ruin your career prospects by turning into a 'chip on the shoulder northerner'. Nobody outside the region will want to work with you.

People criticise Scousers for having a victim complex and a chip on their shoulder but we're not far behind tbh

Stay positive, change things, make them better. But don't blame the other guy when it doesn't always go your way.

Thanks Lookin'. Post deleted

[Gerbil]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Whilst it is great for Cambridge to be home to ARM, they don't employ thousands of people and the overall affect on the local economy is not huge.

ARM isn't the only technology company based in Cambridge and you can count the number of boarded up shops in the city centre on the fingers of one hand.

The whole Essex-Cambridge-Oxford-Hampshire area is full of start-up technology companies - many created by researchers from the universities. Many of them fail, but many are successful, the important thing is that they try.

This Graphene institute is a great idea - but its only one idea. Where are the rest? You don't need a Nobel prize to set up a business.

[Pit-yacker]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Where are silicon chips designed?

Doubt it is silicon valley, that is more software isn't it?

Cambridge is the home to ARM who design chips, that are manufactured elsewhere.

Whilst it is great for Cambridge to be home to ARM, they don't employ thousands of people and the overall affect on the local economy is not huge.

If we are very very very lucky we will see an equivalent of ARM in Manchester in my opinion.

Apparently ARM employs over 2,000. Admittedly these aren't all in Cambridge.

ARM is deliberately a design only firm. They design chips and then license that design to companies that want to use the chip. It probably has a lot to do with cost of a chip fab plant which is in the billions. Some would also suggest the licensing-only model is part of the reason for ARM's success in getting so many companies to adopt its designs.

I doubt we will see a Manchester equivalent of ARM. The ARM architecture is the most ubiquitous on the planet – its taken over 20 years to get to that stage – and not even the Intel seems capable of challenging that these days.

However, ARM also has some links to the University of Manchester. Steve Furber, who was head of R&D at Acorn when the ARM chip was originally developed, is a professor in School of Computer Science.

[hifive605]

excellent design, this area needs quality builds desperately, I mean what's with the giant multi-story carpark next door!??? A car park isn't a legitimate city center development - its a stopgap! put it underground ffs

[Pit-yacker]

Originally Posted by hifive605

excellent design, this area needs quality builds desperately, I mean what's with the giant multi-story carpark next door!??? A car park isn't a legitimate city center development - its a stopgap! put it underground ffs

Not likely to happen IMO.

The multi-storey(s) exist for University staff and students (as well as the Aquatics Centre in this case). Without them parking around the University and Hospital would be pretty much non-existent these days.

Don't forget that less than 15 years ago, that side of Upper Brook St was pretty much continuous surface-level car parks from Booth Street up to Hathersage Rd. Today it is almost entirely built up with relatively tall buildings.

Demolishing and building a car-park that deep underground would cost an absolute fortune. I doubt the university has that much cash to throw around. Especially when, as far as I can tell, it is still sitting on a pile of land on the former UMIST campus that could be redeveloped.

[js1000]

Manchester University bidding for £28m to help fund graphene hub

University bosses are bidding for nearly £30m of European cash to help fund a centre to research money-spinning uses for wonder material graphene. The ultra-thin substance, which has the potential to revolutionise computers and electronic products, was discovered by Nobel Prize-winning scientists at Manchester University.

Last year, chancellor George Osborne announced £50m was being allocated to make sure Britain stayed ahead of the rest of the world when it comes to finding commercial uses for graphene. National science chiefs awarded the lion's share of the cash - £38m - to Manchester for the creation of a National Graphene Institute.

Now, the University has submitted an application to the European Regional Development Fund for a further £28m to go towards the £61m total cost of the science hub. The centre will be based on Booth Street East, on land already owned by the University and will create an initial wave of 100 jobs.

If the bid is granted, with a decision due in December, it will pave the way for work to start on the project in March 2013, with it set to open its doors by March 2015. A Manchester University spokesman said: "In the short-term the NGI will create 100 new jobs in the region, in addition to retaining the existing knowledge base within Manchester

"In the long-term it is expected that many thousands of new jobs will be created in the region the region and more widely in the UK due to creation of new companies, expansion of existing UK companies and inward investment." He added: "The NGI, acting as a national hub, will attract further investment for applied research and commercialisation and will provide the required catalysis for growth of SME’s in the region to support the supply chain in various application sectors.

"The University is currently in discussion with approximately 100 companies, who have made enquires about the NGI and the expertise offered by the University. "The University’s core aim is to ensure that continual research and development remains focused in the region, with commercialisation of the developed applications having a direct impact on the regional and national economy."

Professors Andre Geim and Konstantin Novoselov made the discovery of graphene in 2004. The pair initially experimented with sticky tape to remove atom-thin sheets from pieces of graphite, but the process has now become highly-refined. They were given knighthoods in the New Year's Honours List for their discovery, having been awarded the Nobel Prize in 2010.

Dozens of research teams around the world are racing to discover new uses for the super-conductive material - which could be used in a new generation of super-fast electronics and composite materials such as flexible glass. It also has unique electrical properties and is 200 times stronger than steel.

Mike Emmerich, chief executive of Manchester think tank New Economy, said: "The scientific and commercial development of graphene has the potential to boost Manchester’s economy on a scale that was only previously experienced when the city was king of the cotton industry in the mid-19th Century.

"Graphene has massive potential and although it was discovered here, its research and development has attracted serious international interest and plenty of competition. We have to make sure that we seize our opportunity to make the National Graphene Institute in Manchester, not only the leading facility for the UK but for the rest of the world."

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereven...d-graphene-hub

I don't see how this building and the facilities in it will create a new niche for Manchester, let alone Britain. It justs sound like they want the building for a few dozen admin jobs. As others have said on here, the technology was lost years ago with other companies such as Samsung - who are probably miles ahead of where the scientists are at Manchester.

The government and council only sat up and listened when they won the Nobel Prize in 2010 despite the fact Geim and Novoselov discovered graphene in 2004. Six years development was lost if you consider technology to be an ever moving race. A sad indictment on the people (i.e. science ministers) who should have been aware of the potential before it was too late.

And the quotes from Emmerich are hyperbole on a silly scale...

[Lookin Up]

.....er, what?
This isn't even fully funded yet?
Going off to Brussels with a begging bowl?
And the Koreans have been at this for 6 years already?
Graphene was actually discovered 8 years ago whilst we've (no doubt) in the meantime blabbed and wrung our hands about consultation periods and social equality impact assessments. FFS

Sounds like another great british epic fail in the making.
We really do have to pull our fingers out as a nation otherwise we're f**ked.

[VDB]

Originally Posted by Lookin Up

.....er, what?
This isn't even fully funded yet?
Going off to Brussels with a begging bowl?
And the Koreans have been at this for 6 years already?
Graphene was actually discovered 8 years ago whilst we've (no doubt) in the meantime blabbed and wrung our hands about consultation periods and social equality impact assessments. FFS

Sounds like another great british epic fail in the making.
We really do have to pull our fingers out as a nation otherwise we're f**ked.

This all over.