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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:04 AM   #41
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Latest consultation here.

Who thinks Tfl are pushing for a ferry and tunnel

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/river/crossings
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:35 AM   #42
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Who writes these consulatations?

"A ferry service between Thamesmead and Beckton would make them better connected"

No shit Sherlock.


Not sure about the location of the tunnel.
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Old January 4th, 2013, 04:23 PM   #43
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The Royal Borough of Greenwich and Newham Council have begun a major campaign for two new river crossings between East and South East London calling for a bridge to be constructed between Gallions Reach and Thamesmead - http://www.itv.com/news/london/story...ver-crossings/
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Old January 5th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #44
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It was only a matter of time until this point...


Councils join forces to push for bridge in east London
The Wharf
4 January 2013


Quote:
Greenwich and Newham councils have announced they are teaming up to push for a road bridge between Thamesmead and Beckton.

The initiative, launched at a press conference on Friday morning, comes on the back of a Transport for London consultation on the issue.

TfL has said it was looking into constructing a tunnel between Silvertown and the Greenwich Peninsula - a proposal backed by the councils - but has played down a fixed link at Gallions Reach to replace the Woolwich Ferry.

Instead, TfL want to replace the ferry service with another two miles downstream, drawing criticism from businesses and politicians.

Greenwich and Newham administrations are adamant a bridge has to be built. They claim it would improve accessibility to more than 40 important sites either side of the river and estimate around 20,000 jobs will be created by it.

Newham's executive member for regeneration and strategic planning, Councillor Conor McAuley, said: "This bridge isn't about cars getting across the river - it's about white vans crossing. There's been a lot of investment in the DLR to help transport passengers but we need business road links.

"This will also allow buses to get people across the river."

Greenwich's cabinet member for regeneration, enterprise and skills, Councillor Denise Hyland, said the crossings were key to regeneration.

"The Mayor (Boris Johnson) talks about convergence - in getting the east as financially well off as west London - but we won't get that convergence unless we have the transport links."

However, not all back a bridge at Gallions Reach. Jenny Bates was one of the Friends of the Earth members who attended Friday's event to protest against more roads.

"It's a fact that when you build more road space, traffic goes up," she said. "It was only recently that Professor Frank Kelly of King's College London said we need to cut road traffic by 20-30 per cent to meet EU limits."

Cllr McAuley denied the crossings would be detrimental to air quality and said it would reduce pollution by stopping vehicles from queuing for long periods.

"On a cold Tuesday morning in November we have lorries queuing up to Gallions Reach for the Woolwich Ferry, often with their engines on - which they shouldn't," he said. "And we regularly have just a single ferry trying to get them across the river. This wouldn't happen with a bridge.

"A bridge here would also reduce congestion at Blackwall which can often be gridlocked."

The previous planned crossing for the area, the Thames Gateway Bridge, was scrapped by Mayor Boris Johnson in 2008.
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Old January 5th, 2013, 05:22 PM   #45
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Greenwich Council's campaign page: http://www.royalgreenwich.gov.uk/bridgethegap
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Old January 5th, 2013, 08:21 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack_jones View Post
I loved this design of the Thames Gateway bridge....such a shame it didnt get the go ahead. Hopefully Boris Johnson will change he's mind because another ferry would be a useless solution.

Another thumbs up here. Marks Barfield are in my 'favourite architects' list.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 06:21 PM   #47
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Divisions deep in London's river crossings debate

http://www.wharf.co.uk/2013/01/divis...dons-rive.html

Quote:
Ferry at Gallions Reach -

Pros - Would replace the creaking Woolwich Ferry. Bexley Council back it. It would also give TfL more time to gauge whether a bridge should be built here.

Cons - Would still suffer from some Woolwich Ferry problems such as poor capacity and being at the mercy of the weather. Supporters of the bridge say the £100 million ferry cost would be better spent on the fixed crossing.
£100 million for a new ferry. Are TFL both mad and stupid. Why waste spending £100 million on a new temporary ferry when you could put that towards a new bridge?
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Old January 24th, 2013, 07:49 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jack_jones View Post
Divisions deep in London's river crossings debate

http://www.wharf.co.uk/2013/01/divis...dons-rive.html



£100 million for a new ferry. Are TFL both mad and stupid. Why waste spending £100 million on a new temporary ferry when you could put that towards a new bridge?
Makes you want to weep.

BUILD A BRIDGE/TUNNEL YOU F*&%ING TW&TS !!!!
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Old January 24th, 2013, 09:36 PM   #49
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What could possibly be wrong with a big new car tunnel under the Thames linking deprived east and south London? It would relieve congestion, allow people to cross London more easily, reduce journey times, encourage development, jobs, prosperity, flexibility, and even provide an alternative route between the Isle of Dogs with Greenwich, wouldn't it?


That's the premise of the mayor, Boris Johnson, and Transport for London (TfL) who, backed by construction and property companies, want to build a £1bn dual carriageway tunnel starting near the Dome on the south bank of the river and emerging on the north side in Tower Hamlets. TfL finishes consultation on the Silvertown crossing on 1 February and hopes to push the plan through next year.


But this week at a former church in the shadow of London's Canary Wharf's skyscrapers, I heard another side of this proposed road crossing story, and it was shocking.


Ian Mudway, a lecturer in respiratory toxicology and part of the environmental research group at King's College, London, and John Elliot, the head of a transport consultancy who has modelled London traffic for 30 years, told local people about what to expect from the tunnel, which could carry as many as 30,000 cars and lorries a day.


Mudway gave the diagnosis. Air pollution, he said, was already a killer in Tower Hamlets. The borough is one of the poorest in Britain, has the highest percentage of children under 15 and one of the oldest populations. It also has many major roads, such as the A12, passing within a few metres of large housing estates.


"We have high-density housing here slap bang next to major roads. The borough is crisscrossed by big roads. The whole area is in noncompliance [with EU air quality standards] but people still don't see air pollution as a big issue. They understand that you die from alcohol or obesity but air pollution doesn't have that risk factor in people's imagination, yet it's a killer," he told the audience.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...nnel-pollution

From comments:

StopCityAirport
24 January 2013 6:21pm

The 2011 census showed a rapidly changing East London. Its people are younger, communities have become denser and more diverse and, significantly, we have become less car dependent.

Of all households in inner boroughs like Tower Hamlets, 46 per cent do not have a car yet 100% of Tower Hamlets residents are effected. Every resident is 100m or less from a main road. In the USA no homes can be built unless they are at least 500m from a main road.

We are seeing a revolution in how London commutes. Public Transport use has increased. Cycling has increased. Car use is bucking that trend - It’s on the decrease.

The Silvertown Tunnel is in effect a third Blackwall Tunnel on the boundary of Tower Hamlets. The Gallions Reach Ferry is the foundations to a new Thames Gateway Bridge.

Greenwich and Newham Councils have launched an evidence-free campaign to support a Tunnel they claim, will bring jobs and opportunity to the area. If jobs is the objective, evidence shows that better use of public transport, repairing existing roads and tunnels and making walking and cycling easier is the best way to create those jobs.

The danger is that it’s the already-stretched local NHS that will see the need to create jobs. Air pollution around the Blackwall Tunnel on both sides of the Thames are among the highest in London. Risks to health from vehicle emissions include asthma, impaired fetal development and cancer. Air pollution will be the biggest environmental cause of premature deaths in the coming decades.

Funding for the Tunnel is non-existent. Instead, tolls will be charged on the Blackwall and Silvertown Tunnels to cover costs and reduce congestion.Let’s put a toll on the Blackwall Tunnel now. Let’s ring-fence that money for Tower Hamlets and Greenwich to spend on transport that positively benefits their residents - they, after all, suffer the greatest negative impacts from the Blackwall Tunnel.

Attend the Public Meeting at Forum@Greenwich, Trafalgar Road, SE10 9EQ on the 28th January at 6.30pm and decide for yourself.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 04:05 PM   #50
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Why go to the expense of digging tunnels, which will have limited capacity, when bridges are easier to build and can be widened/decked if required in the future. Seems a no-brainer to me.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 04:46 PM   #51
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AEG and Berkeley Homes have come out in support for a bridge at Gallions Reach:


Big firms launch campaign for more Thames crossings
Evening Standard
23 January 2013
Quote:
A campaign for more Thames crossings in east London has been set up by business leaders.

They say that the shortage is contributing to congestion which holds back economic growth in some of the capital’s most deprived areas.

Campaigners point out that there are only two road crossings east of Tower Bridge —the Rotherhithe and the Blackwall tunnels — compared with 25 to the west. The campaign, Bridge the Gap, is backed by major retailers such as Marks & Spencer and WH Smith as well as east London landmark venues such as The 02 in Greenwich.

The campaigners claim that Mayor Boris Johnson’s plans for new crossings — a ferry at Gallions Reach, Thamesmead, and a tunnel at Silvertown — do not go far enough and have called for a road bridge at Thamesmead. Rebecca Kane, general manager of the 02, owned by US entertainment group AEG, said that since opening in 2007 “congestion at the Blackwall tunnel has been an inherent problem”.

She added: “AEG strongly supports the proposal for a tunnel at Silvertown and a bridge at Gallions Reach. This will provide much needed relief to the area and give support to AEG’s next development phases on the Greenwich Peninsula.”

John Anderson, chairman of developer Berkeley Homes, said: “We strongly believe that in order to gain the maximum benefits, the Gallions Reach crossing must be a bridge link not a ferry.”

Chris Roberts, leader of Greenwich council, said new crossings were “absolutely essential to solve the serious congestion in this part of London and to unlock the development potential of some 40 sites”.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 04:49 PM   #52
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Sir Terry Farrell is in favour of bridge crossings:

Support grows for new £750 million Thames crossings
ES Homes & Property
23 January 2013
Quote:
Transport for London (TfL) backs proposals to dig a road tunnel between Greenwich Peninsula and Silvertown, and to create a new car ferry crossing between Thamesmead and Beckton, which they claim is crucial since the existing Woolwich Ferry is reaching the end of its working life.

So far more than 4,000 people have responded to a consultation launched by TfL, more than 90 per cent of whom have been in favour.

TfL estimates that the tunnel will cost £600 million and could be built by 2021. The ferry crossing would cost around £150 million, and could be open by 2017. Money could be raised by tolls of about £2 per car on both crossings.

However, Sir Terry Farrell, who advises Mayor Boris Johnson on major design projects and has drawn up a 40-year vision for the regeneration of the Thames Gateway, has serious concerns.

He agrees that south-east London needs more Thames crossings. “But I really think that the time has come for low-level bridges which people can walk and cycle across. A tunnel is not spontaneous enough. You could build half a dozen low-level bridges, like Waterloo Bridge, for the cost of a tunnel, and the river would not be such a Grand Canyon,” said Farrell.

He believes the reason TfL prefers the tunnel option is because of the fear low bridges will halt river traffic. “There is an illusion that the river is full of big ships but the docks are all empty,” he said, suggesting the bridges could be designed to open to allow river traffic to pass like Tower Bridge.

Councillor Chris Roberts, leader of Greenwich Council, said: “New river crossings are vital for this part of London. For far too long we have put up with congestion, pollution and this barrier to growth.

“We badly need these long-term solutions to ease the pressure on the Blackwall Tunnel and the Woolwich Ferry. The people of south-east London have been short-changed for too long.

“This isn’t just about making our immediate area better. London is expanding east, we need to manage that growth and ensure the right infrastructure is in place to make the most of south-east London’s potential,” explained Roberts.

Mayor Boris Johnson supports TfL's proposals saying they have the “potential to provide huge support for jobs and growth in east and south London.”
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Old January 25th, 2013, 04:50 PM   #53
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Bexley Council slams road bridge plans in Thames crossing debate
News Shopper
22 January 2013
Quote:
BEXLEY Council has stepped up its opposition to a Thamesmead road bridge in the debate over a new river crossing.

The Conservative-lead council favours a ferry rather than a bridge at Gallions Reach as well as a new tunnel under the Thames at Silvertown as previously proposed by London Mayor Boris Johnson.

Cabinet member responsible for strategic transport issues Councillor Gareth Bacon, said: "We believe that a ferry would encourage regeneration and, with the right steps to manage traffic, will not create problems on local roads.

"A bridge would bring in 10 times the amount of traffic, some of which is likely to end up on residential roads in Bexley."

Bexley’s Labour group favour a road bridge, saying in a statement: "With the right mitigation, weight restrictions and axle limitation, a river crossing will have little effect on local roads but will bring in much needed investment, transport infrastructure and jobs."

Residents are urged to have their say on Transport for London’s proposals before the consultation closes on February 1 by visiting tfl.gov.uk/rivercrossings
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Old January 25th, 2013, 05:14 PM   #54
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So far:

For a bridge crossing

- AEG (operate the O2 and Thames Clippers in the region)

- Berkeley Homes (local schemes include Royal Arsenal Riverside at Woolwich, Kidbrooke Village, One SE8, Caspian Wharf, Goodman's Fields etc)

- Sir Terry Farrell (advisor to Boris Johnson. Particularly supports low level bridge(s) with opening option)

- Martin Arnold Associates (local schemes include Millharbour, the Stratford Eye and Canada Water)

- West Properties (developer of the Greenwich cruise liner terminal)

- Greenwich Council (south-east London crossing point)

- Newham Council (east London crossing point)


Against a bridge crossing

- Bexley Council (neighbouring borough to Greenwich, citing concerns on congestion)

- Friends of the Earth (citing concerns on environmental grounds)

- The Green Party (citing concerns on environmental grounds)

- TfL (Prefer a £100m ferry crossing, but have not ruled-out a bridge)
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Last edited by SE9; January 26th, 2013 at 12:07 AM.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #55
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I prefer the idea of a low level bridge. They are a lot more inviting to pedestrians and cyclists. What the east end wants to avoid is a great big concrete behemoth like the Itchen.

image hosted on flickr

Last edited by ill tonkso; January 25th, 2013 at 09:47 PM.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 11:57 PM   #56
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Here's the latest consultation everybody: https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/riv...s/consultation. It ends in a few days (February 1st 2013).

The survey only takes a minute or two. It also gives you the option to support the bridge. Support the bridge every one!
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Old January 26th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #57
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Done.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ill tonkso View Post
I prefer the idea of a low level bridge. They are a lot more inviting to pedestrians and cyclists. What the east end wants to avoid is a great big concrete behemoth like the Itchen.

image hosted on flickr
That's the sort of bridge you get when nobody gives a damn about aesthetics.

If we are to have a bridge, please let someone put some art into it. Foster's Millau bridge in France demonstrates that with a bit of art you can turn a dull piece of engineering into something worth going to look at in its own right. Or, alternatively, just look at almost every piece of engineering infrastructure the much-slagged-off victorians built.

If built, this bridge is going to be the most dominant structure for miles. It could end up being a tremendous source of local pride, or, alternatively, it could just be yet-another-pig-ugly flyover type thing. Let's hope if they build it, they don't just think of the people driving over it, but the people who have to live in its shadow too!
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Old January 26th, 2013, 09:29 PM   #59
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These were the original Gateway Bridge options. It needs to be high to allow for shipping (and there is quite a lot of it, so it would cause tailbacks having a opening) and therefore the road run ups need to be long (part of it on the south side has already been built).



I believe they chose the top left design after various input from City Airport. Whatever design it wouldn't be particularly pedestrian friendly.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 10:17 PM   #60
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Finished in white concrete though... It doesn't suit our climate.
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