IRAQ | Education Sector

[Chounz]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

i think its a nursery where the religious nonsense is hammered into them from a young age.

Like........... is this aside from normal nursery; something they get sent to in their free time or is this a replacement to actual nursery?

I'm guessing it's the latter...... so do they spend the whole day learning Quran or is it just for a hour or so? How about things like drawing, playing games, running around, thing that regular 4-year olds are meant to do......something that gets their minds and creativity flowing?? So important at such a young age. Don't think anyone in Iraq understands how important child development is..

Do they even know how to read at 4 or 5?! Can they read arabic???? Will they understand a word of what they're saying or reading? Do they even know what religion is?

I mean school is fine but nursery? Seriously??? It doesn't make sense to me..... not sure what sort of child would want this.

[sheytanElKebir]

they will learn caligraphy things I guess.

"drawing" - immam hossein related drawings and scenes.

"reading" - quran and various qrayat read to them and stories of hussein, sayida zyanab imam ali etc...

"theatre" - puppet play with the evil yazid against al hussain


and its not the choice of the children.. its the choice of the parents. In fact one of my friends in Iraq did send his son to one of these nurseries briefly (my friend is completely secular and nonbeliever, but he really found no alternative "clean" nursery). He pulled his son out after a few weeks after the boy started to be brainwashed and started going "astakhfurrila harram" at everything... not to mention the cheerful boy became a deranged straight faced maniac!


lack of proper nurseries is the main reason I don't take my kids back to Iraq at all.

[alshawi1234]

It's not about what you teach them only, its about how you teach them.

Although I don't like the Abbasids in general, but Iraq's golden age was during the Abbasids era. This was mostly influenced by Islam.

As for the "haram", it Is important to shape children both through reinforcement and punishment. This does not necessarily block certain ways of thinking and categorize certain ideas as "taboo" in the mind, unless it is taught in an extreme way.

Most of the "haram" which you talk about are normal ethical and moral behavior

[Chounz]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

they will learn caligraphy things I guess.

"drawing" - immam hossein related drawings and scenes.

"reading" - quran and various qrayat read to them and stories of hussein, sayida zyanab imam ali etc...

"theatre" - puppet play with the evil yazid against al hussain

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

and its not the choice of the children.. its the choice of the parents. In fact one of my friends in Iraq did send his son to one of these nurseries briefly (my friend is completely secular and nonbeliever, but he really found no alternative "clean" nursery). He pulled his son out after a few weeks after the boy started to be brainwashed and started going "astakhfurrila harram" at everything... not to mention the cheerful boy became a deranged straight faced maniac!

So sad. And to think the same will happen to all those kids in those pictures and hundreds or perhaps thousands more of them.

[Ali - Iraq]

Yep, there is no hope for Iraq.

[alshawi1234]

You guys are exaggerating. As soon as these children hit their teens, they will start "capsuling" and fill their smartphones with porn videos.

[BigDreamer]

i don't want offend any one here.. you know that i love you all !!

but seriously, i think this is f***ed up..

don't want to preach Dawking's work on child indoctrination.. but for the sake of a prosperous and developed iraq.. i honestly hope some of you would invest some time reading it

[alshawi1234]

What defines "right" from "wrong". People may have totally different meanings for these terms.

Yes BD unfortunately most teachers teach based on indoctrination, even in non-religious schools some teachers try to implement their ideas on the student. That is a major flaw in the teaching system (especially in iraq), and religious teachings is most vulnerable because of the old inherited way of teaching.

But their are new ways of teaching such as presenting all theories(including conflicting theories) on a specific problem and explaining each one of them (most noticeably modern scholars that used these techniques is Mohamed-Sadiq Alsadr and Ahmed alwa2ili) Regardless of whether it is flawed or not,
Islam has been at the core of iraqi society for more than 1400 years, and it will continue to be.

[BigDreamer]

i don't have an issue with Islam having prevalence in Iraq TBH.. what I'm concerned about is that most Iraqis are incapable of critical thinking

[Ali - Iraq]

Is it possible to change the school system?

[diako_ber]

It is, Kurdistan changed the whole school system after the summer holidays in 2009(?) to a Swedish school system

They also decided to teach from a neutral and non-religious view point

[Ali - Iraq]

It is, Kurdistan changed the whole school system after the summer holidays in 2009(?) to a Swedish school system

They also decided to teach from a neutral and non-religious view point

I see but i meant for a religious society

[BigDreamer]

yea it is possible to change.. but it requires huge investment in retraining teachers, school structure / activities.. and a HUGE affort in public awarness..

things that they MUST change to meet international educational standards:

1) no religious / political indoctronation at any level, people can learn about religion at their own free time..

2) ban on child abuse / violence ! it is soo prevelant you can't even imagine

3) build modern schools.. not the crap we have right now from early 1900s ! schools shouldnt look like prisons .. as they do now

4) give options ! kids have varied inclinations and interests.. schools should not be assembly lines, where every kid gets identical treatment... if a kid is good at sports / arts/ math whatever then provide opportunities, dont shove useless content down their throat and claim it's for their own good.. because it isn't

i could really go on and on.. i just don't have time or the will

[Spin Cycle]

Originally Posted by Chounz

I'm guessing it's the latter...... so do they spend the whole day learning Quran or is it just for a hour or so? .

Good luck getting a 5 year old to do anything for an hour, never mind a whole day!.

[Spin Cycle]

Originally Posted by BigDreamer

yea it is possible to change.. but it requires huge investment in retraining teachers, school structure / activities.. and a HUGE affort in public awarness..

things that they MUST change to meet international educational standards:

1) no religious / political indoctronation at any level, people can learn about religion at their own free time..

2) ban on child abuse / violence ! it is soo prevelant you can't even imagine

3) build modern schools.. not the crap we have right now from early 1900s ! schools shouldnt look like prisons .. as they do now

4) give options ! kids have varied inclinations and interests.. schools should not be assembly lines, where every kid gets identical treatment... if a kid is good at sports / arts/ math whatever then provide opportunities, dont shove useless content down their throat and claim it's for their own good.. because it isn't

i could really go on and on.. i just don't have time or the will

This is needs a major culture shift. A young child learns more from his/her parents than school, so that's what needs to be addressed - how parents raise their kids.

On the other hand, kids are like putty, and they can and do change. In the information age, religion won't survive.

Iraqis aren't pious or religious people, they just wear public faces. Their kids won't even bother with the masks.

[BigDreamer]

Originally Posted by Spin Cycle

This is needs a major culture shift. A young child learns more from his/her parents than school, so that's what needs to be addressed - how parents raise their kids.

On the other hand, kids are like putty, and they can and do change. In the information age, religion won't survive.

Iraqis aren't pious or religious people, they just wear public faces. Their kids won't even bother with the masks.

yes.. but secular/liberal parents who send their kids to schools in iraq.. are forced to have their kids indoctrination like it or not !


wanna know something funny.. i opened my eyes to this world exactly during the first gulf war... just starting my first year at school
i still remember crystal clear when bombs were falling, and how the mamoon telecommunication tower was bombed (which was one road away of where i lived !)..

but that didn't really leave much psychological damage in the long term... what did affect me are the schools in iraq !

i swear I still have nightmares about it till this day ! it is truly something medieval..

teachers beat you up at their pleasure, we had to sing and learn all kind of propaganda.. you have your childhood absolutely stolen from you..

[sheytanElKebir]

alshawi. these children will have to grow up to face a world-wide workforce, to compete with and work with.

their "competitors" are not being indoctrinated day and night about hussain and the battle of the camel... they will FAIL in competing and working alongside "world class" colleagues and thus bring down Iraq with them.

I mean what is the reason we see so much FAIL from the decisions and thoughts of the people in the decision making seats in Iraq... they all came from a RELIGIOUS INDOCTRINATION background. They may be intelligent enough at a personal level, but they invested so much of their intellectual capabilities and TIME throughout their lives to the questions of "haram and halal" which hadiths are right or wrong, whether shias are more right than sunnis and other topics that they thought about, read about and debated endlessly for years... that did not prepare them for the JOB they were put into (e.g. allocating funds for construction projects, managing projects, managing Iraq's defence expenditure and the hundreds and thousands of other REAL jobs needing the full intellectual capacity of intelligent decision makers to have been taught, honed and focused on solving).

the fact that you bring up an example of a MEDIEVAL empire as cause celebre for "islamic education" really teeters on the edge of credulity!!! I mean REALLY????

[Ali - Iraq]

teachers beat you up at their pleasure, we had to sing and learn all kind of propaganda.. you have your childhood absolutely stolen from you..

I feel sorry for you. I'm pretty sure things have changed now. According to the people in Iraq ( Samawa) if a teacher beats you, the student can complain about it, which probably will result in a ban for the teacher. The teacher has a lot to lose, and especially now since the salaries of a teacher is much higher than it was before. Back then teachers didn't get much payed which i think was generally for all those who were educated. I also know that people tend to ''force'' their children to study in order to get an education. The incitement is money of course

[Spin Cycle]

Originally Posted by BigDreamer

yes.. but secular/liberal parents who send their kids to schools in iraq.. are forced to have their kids indoctrination like it or not !


wanna know something funny.. i opened my eyes to this world exactly during the first gulf war... just starting my first year at school
i still remember crystal clear when bombs were falling, and how the mamoon telecommunication tower was bombed (which was one road away of where i lived !)..

but that didn't really leave much psychological damage in the long term... what did affect me are the schools in iraq !

i swear I still have nightmares about it till this day ! it is truly something medieval..

teachers beat you up at their pleasure, we had to sing and learn all kind of propaganda.. you have your childhood absolutely stolen from you..

That's pretty awful. Makes me appreciate growing up in Britain, though I regret the way I spent my childhood.

Youth is wasted on the youth, as they say.

[BigDreamer]

Originally Posted by Spin Cycle

That's pretty awful. Makes me appreciate growing up in Britain, though I regret the way I spent my childhood.

Youth is wasted on the youth, as they say.

yea one thing i think is great about the UK is the education.. . even when i compare to NZ , and we normally rank in the top 5 countries in maths and sciences at school..

why do you have regrets about your childhood.. i would give anything to have spent my childhood in a place like the UK instead of hell hole like iraq