IRAQ | Education Sector

[Chounz]

Originally Posted by Spin Cycle

That's pretty awful. Makes me appreciate growing up in Britain, though I regret the way I spent my childhood.

Youth is wasted on the youth, as they say.

How did you spend your childhood?

I'm sure you've said the exact same thing before but when asked to elaborate you refused.


If you ever mention it a third time I will not take no for an answer and you will be forced to just spit it out.

[sheytanElKebir]

Originally Posted by BigDreamer

yea one thing i think is great about the UK is the education.. . even when i compare to NZ , and we normally rank in the top 5 countries in maths and sciences at school..

why do you have regrets about your childhood.. i would give anything to have spent my childhood in a place like the UK instead of hell hole like iraq

I spent part of my school education in the UK... it was not good at all compared to other european countries I'd studied in. Mainland europe is generally VERY good. and although the china/singapore/HK are top for "science/maths/reading" they are just robotic... incomparable to mere mortals like us

[Spin Cycle]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

I spent part of my school education in the UK... it was not good at all compared to other european countries I'd studied in. Mainland europe is generally VERY good. and although the china/singapore/HK are top for "science/maths/reading" they are just robotic... incomparable to mere mortals like us

I don't rate the East Asian system of education at all. My university is full of East Asians (seriously, come to our EE department, you'd think you were in Hong Kong), and "robotic" is an apt description. They want an algorithm to solve every problem because that's what they are used to in school.

The Europeans to to be better, but not special...I think our department just doesn't get good students.

[BigDreamer]

i agree with spin, i'm surrounded by east asians in my field.. some are brilliant ! amazing at math, even coding is pretty good (probably not so relevant in your field i assume..).. but when it comes to thinking out of the box.. i would give top scores to these countries (based on my personal experience)

1.Germany
2. Israel
3. Hungary (yes not kidding)
4. UK / US / Canda/ Aus/ nz Singapore (same level IMO)

this is mostly based on my area of work, i deal with nationals from these countries every day.. i'm doing postgrad atm

[Spin Cycle]

Originally Posted by Chounz

How did you spend your childhood?

I'm sure you've said the exact same thing before but when asked to elaborate you refused.


If you ever mention it a third time I will not take no for an answer and you will be forced to just spit it out.

It's nothing sordid or interesting, just feel it's vain to talk about myself. If I get a third strike I'll say .

[Sinjar]

Originally Posted by BigDreamer

i don't have an issue with Islam having prevalence in Iraq TBH.. what I'm concerned about is that most Iraqis are incapable of critical thinking

haha my dad says that so much..

[BigDreamer]

[BigDreamer]

Originally Posted by Spin Cycle

It's nothing sordid or interesting, just feel it's vain to talk about myself. If I get a third strike I'll say .

oh goo on.. don't feel vain

we know nothing about you.. if anything chounz and me should feel vain

[Spin Cycle]

Originally Posted by BigDreamer

i agree with spin, i'm surrounded by east asians in my field.. some are brilliant ! amazing at math, even coding is pretty good (probably not so relevant in your field i assume..).. but when it comes to thinking out of the box.. i would give top scores to these countries (based on my personal experience)

1.Germany
2. Israel
3. Hungary (yes not kidding)
4. UK / US / Canda/ Aus/ nz Singapore (same level IMO)

this is mostly based on my area of work, i deal with nationals from these countries every day.. i'm doing postgrad atm

I largely agree with this, though I would put Israel as no 1.

The British are a funny bunch. Our education system is crap, yet at the highest levels, the British are very good. The problem is we have a large chunk below the highest levels that is missing (because of our crap education system), and that chunk is easily filled by those other people.

[alshawi1234]

The problem is not with religion, the problem is with the whole education system. Here in Canada we have "public" schools and "catholic" schools. Catholic schools have the same curriculum as "public" schools, but add a catholic class. Parents have the option to send their children to whichever school they wish. The students that go to Catholic schools are not any less competent than any other students. The fighting/ debating about the Shia-Sunni, that is left to the Muslim scholars, not for students.

As for teaching religion, I agree that should be exclusive to private schools and not public schools.. The whole education system needs to changed. Perhaps include:

- "health/ or CALM" (for moral, sexual, personal hygiene education....) this could be incorporated with Islamic studies in "Islamic" schools.
- Gym/ Physical education for sports and physical activities.
- And of course the usual core classes for elementary/ junior high schools.

I attended an iraqi school for 2 weeks when I went there in 2009, the whole system is fu*ked. They still fail elementary students, they don't have credit system for high schools. (Which means if you fail one class, you must redo the whole year) . You see old students who are stuck with young students because they fail up to 3-4 years sometimes, this makes the students get hate school.

The way of teaching is based in MEMORIZING rather than understanding/ thinking. And that Is the biggest flaw.

The good thing is they don't force non-Muslims to take it. There were a few "Sabaens" in schools that didn't come to that class.

[diako_ber]

They say Finland has the best education system and I agree on that. Their school system is completely different compared to the other European systems, but their schools are very modern and they have very advanced and professional ways to teach the students.

[BigDreamer]

is it okay if you can give us an example on how they are different from the rest of Europe?

i'm very curious

[diako_ber]

Of course.

One example is that the students almost don't have tests and don't get marks if they have tests.

There are no mandated standardized tests in Finland, apart from one exam at the end of students’ senior year in high school. There are no rankings, no comparisons or competition between students, schools or regions. Finland’s schools are publicly funded. The people in the government agencies running them, from national officials to local authorities, are educators, not business people, military leaders or career politicians. Every school has the same national goals and draws from the same pool of university-trained educators. The result is that a Finnish child has a good shot at getting the same quality education no matter whether he or she lives in a rural village or a university town. The differences between weakest and strongest students are the smallest in the world, according to the most recent survey by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

It also has the highest percentage of students attending college in europe.

[BigDreamer]

Thanks

can you please source your quote?

i don't know how they can tell their system is successful if they don't have standardised tests?

in my country, there was a big uproar about getting rid of standardised exams, but was later overturned because in general things go down hill if you remove standardised testing..

[diako_ber]

These two:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people...=2&device=ipad

http://www.businessinsider.com/finla...l-2011-12?op=1

There are exams, but no regular tests whenever you finish a chapter for a subject.

[Spin Cycle]

That works fine for Finland, but it would be terrible in a big country like UK, Germany or France. Stratification of students is essential because innovation only comes from a small proportion of the population, and it's essential that that proportion be allowed to excel beyond the rest of their cohort.

I don't think people should all get good educations past, say 14. In fact, I would say too many people go to university in the UK, and more should take up apprenticeships and vocational qualifications.

[sheytanElKebir]

got to agree with Hungary as I spent my nursery and primary school years there without that I would have been a miserable failure in british secondary schools


with regards to finland, I'd rate Denmark higher... (having been in both places, finland for 1 year and denmark for 6 months).

but overall in Europe... UK is definitely the worst I've seen (apart from some Balkan countries! I wouldn't really count as "europe" anyway).

[BigDreamer]

Originally Posted by Spin Cycle

I largely agree with this, though I would put Israel as no 1.

israel has one issue with their system !

you have military service at the age of 18 !

so people finish uni at mid 20s instead of the usual 21/22 years of age..

Singapore is a similar story except that you can put off your military service until after you are done with your undergrad degree

[BigDreamer]

Originally Posted by sheytanElKebir

but overall in Europe... UK is definitely the worst I've seen (apart from some Balkan countries! I wouldn't really count as "europe" anyway).

wow ! really ?

think that's a tad bit harsh.. why is it so bad? looks great to me :S

def think UK is better than Spain/Portugal, Italy Greece .. that shouldn't be a big brainer ..

[sheytanElKebir]

I really don't know the southern europeans much TBH. But compared to the countries I know (hungary, czech, finland, denmark etc...) yea the UK is FAR worse. One of the main issues being the attitude to education by children and the anti-intellectual slant of students in the "state" schools (at least the ones I knew).

although I went to a school in "surrey" supposedly a "good" area only 35% achieved 5 A-C grades at GCSEs, and out of over 200 students in my year AFAIK I'm the only one with a PhD. half the girls were pregnant by the time they were 17, vast majority of the boys were dossers. One I think went to cambridge and studied "history".

ironically when I was in that school I was always told in "careers classes" to become a chef or a metal worker or some other such "trade" ... and was told that university would be too difficult for me (this was before the GCSE results came in and I had 11 GCSE A-Cs ... which for some reason took the teachers by surprise - how on earth did that darkie do that?).


perhaps my experience was only a "particular" case. but I know plenty of others from other schools with similar tales to tell of ignorance, bias, racism allied to low education standards and bad judgement by teachers based on the "cut of your jib" rather than intellectual ability!

Never had such issues in Hungary for example where the teachers encouraged students to perform and taught us in a way that we ENJOYED the subjects we learned and read at home out of our own free will to expand our knowledge. we were taken to a theatre or opera or classical music concert every SINGLE WEEK by school, or alternatively a gallery or Museum. We had activities by the school EVERY DAY, and they were almost free so all children could afford it. There was no "trainer wars" with children showing off how much money / stuff they had like in the UK (the basis of "popularity" in the UK - as well as being " 'ard")


I Only wish Iraqis would learn from the education of countries like Hungary... but they would reply "hay eurobe el sharqiya, mu ib mustawa biri6anyee loo emrikeee"