Low Density Errors, is There an Answer?

[Ebeneezer_Goode]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

Helsinki is always in the top 10 (often in the top 3, or simply number 1) when it comes to quality of life

These are the same studies that rank Ireland as having the best quality of life in the world. I think it's fair to say they can be taken with a grain of salt. I mean, have you actually looked at how these rankings are calculated? It's a bad joke.

[PadArch]

On the other hand, 3x more people commit suicide in Finland than in Britain.

[cosmictanya]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

Again you show your incredible ignorance. Old wooden houses and villas are popular in the countryside but not in cities. In Helsinki there are a few small areas of wooden housing built in the early 20th century to the Garden City ideal that are now very sought after places to live. Other than that it's brick, concrete, steel and class all the way. In fact I wish we built more wooden buildings, wood is a great thermal insulator, looks good and is environmental friendly.

[Mr Bricks]

Originally Posted by Ebeneezer_Goode

These are the same studies that rank Ireland as having the best quality of life in the world. I think it's fair to say they can be taken with a grain of salt. I mean, have you actually looked at how these rankings are calculated? It's a bad joke.

So now statistics are a "bad joke". You are the biggest joke here.

Finland is known throughout the world as one of the best countries to live in. Look at any report.

Originally Posted by PadArch

On the other hand, 3x more people commit suicide in Finland than in Britain.

3x more people commit suicide in France than in Britain as well.

Belgians, Hungarians and the Swiss kill themselves in even greater numbers, not to mention the Japanese and the Koreans. I'd rather have my fellow citizens stab themselves in the neck than stab me in the neck.

Freudian slip comictanya

[Ebeneezer_Goode]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

So now statistics are a "bad joke". You are the biggest joke here.

Finland is known throughout the world as one of the best countries to live in. Look at any report.

I never said statistics are a bad joke. How about actually trying to debate the point like an adult instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks and straw man arguments? Do you know anything about these reports at all? As well as the relevant numbers, they also take into account arbitrary stats like divorce rates, church attendance, geographical latitude and union membership. To take their findings as gospel is to take intellectual laziness to the point of being comical. You look at 20 different reports and you find 20 different results, though for the sake or argument, I've done quite a bit of searching and I haven't found a single one that ranks Finland as first, and the vast majority don't have it in the top 10 either. Even ignoring the silliness of taking these reports to heart, I'm not quite sure which ones you're talking about. Perhaps you've been mislead by the Finnish media trying to hype Finland's global significance...

[Mr Bricks]

I didn't start this mess, but if someone attacks my country with deluded claims I will defend it naturally. The bottom line is this: Helsinki has time after time been ranked as one of the "best" places to live in the world, I have never seen any British city on any of these reports. Finland has also been ranked on of the best places to live. Our education system has been ranked the best (alongside South Korea's), living standard is high and we still have a very functional welfare system. That doesn't mean there aren't problems in Finland, of course there are.

This is also a matter of preferences and ideals. In my opinion a country where many people can't afford education and health care, where the government favour the rich because it's run by the rich, where there is segregation, high crime and cities full of sink estates and gated communities is not a free, just and democratic society. I would feel sick living in such a place.

[CalumCookable]

What does this have to do with density?

[Ebeneezer_Goode]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

In my opinion a country where many people can't afford education and health care, where the government favour the rich because it's run by the rich, where there is segregation, high crime and cities full of sink estates and gated communities is not a free, just and democratic society. I would feel sick living in such a place.

If that this is meant as a description of Britain then it is an insane display of ignorance.

[PadArch]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

This is also a matter of preferences and ideals. In my opinion a country where many people can't afford education and health care, where the government favour the rich because it's run by the rich, where there is segregation, high crime and cities full of sink estates and gated communities is not a free, just and democratic society. I would feel sick living in such a place.

But ' you are happy to sit in your house in Scandinavia and rip off the 3rd world right?

[Mr Bricks]

Originally Posted by Ebeneezer_Goode

If that this is meant as a description of Britain then it is an insane display of ignorance.

It is not. But it might be Britain in 25 years time and Finland in 50, because this is where we're heading. You can't deny that there is an ever growing income gap, growing segregation and a growing number of gated communities in Britain. Then there is the housing crisis and the privatization of public space in the cities. Basically financial institutions and corporations taking over our lives and welfare services being dismantled by the government. We are going back to a 19th century style class society.

Originally Posted by PadArch

But ' you are happy to sit in your house in Scandinavia and rip off the 3rd world right?

It's a tragedy. However, before we get everything set straight in our own countries it is in my opinion idiotic to try and fix the 3"rd world."

[.Adam]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

It is not. But it might be Britain in 25 years time and Finland in 50, because this is where we're heading. You can't deny that there is an ever growing income gap, growing segregation and a growing number of gated communities in Britain. Then there is the housing crisis and the privatization of public space in the cities. Basically financial institutions and corporations taking over our lives and welfare services being dismantled by the government. We are going back to a 19th century style class society.



It's a tragedy. However, before we get everything set straight in our own countries it is in my opinion idiotic to try and fix the 3"rd world."

Let's hope wonderful Helsinki has a Daily Mail equivilent. Haha.

[geogregor]

Originally Posted by .Adam

Let's hope wonderful Helsinki has a Daily Mail equivilent. Haha.

Every country has one

[Bowater]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

A growing number of gated communities in Britain.

Can you provide some evidence on this point please. I have not see any new gated communities being built. Unless you ate talking about apartment complexes? But this is no different from people having a fenced off back garden...

[mouldss@hotmail.co.u]

Some that I know of.
[IMG]http://i46.************/eecd0.jpg[/IMG]

[Mr Bricks]

Originally Posted by Bowater

But this is no different from people having a fenced off back garden...

There is a huge difference. Gated communities are surrounded by walls, gates, CCTV cameras and guarded by 24h security. These developments are for the wealthy only, and designed to be fortified islands in the middle of the city. Sometimes (in the Docklands for example) you have gated communities and council estates standing side by side which creates conflict, bitterness, segregation, crime and eventually the pricing out of poor people, demolition of their homes and "gentrification".

[.Adam]

Any examples of these which have been built in the last few years??

[PadArch]

Mr bricks I'm painfully aware of britain's problems, but frankly you are a little wide of the mark on some of your points and comparing britain to Scandinavia is difficult because it is much larger country with completely different people and cultures and problems to any Scandinavian country. There are problems that arise from both cultures but i think a lot of your comments are guided only by your scandinavian point of view. I happen to live in Scandinavia and I have a fairly good idea of the differences. I feel that the overwhelming majority of people I meet there are conning themselves into thinking everything they have is better than it is. They do not know what they are missing so they are happy with the little they have and believe it is enough due to the self congratulatory and complacent concensus. Things like single glazing are meaningless. My house in London is single glazed but it's not much warmer in my double glazed apartment in sweden. All new housing in britain has double glazing. So what. Its not as cold and people here dont value having tropical temperatures indoors throughout winter. My father for instance wants the indoor temperature to be 16 C ideally. London is on average around 10 degrees warmer outside over the cold months. And I often am outdoors over winter in London, whereas in sweden it is uncomfortable to be outdoors for more than 10 minutes unless I wear 2 coats. Quality of life is what you make of it and comfort is only a relatively minor factor in quality of life or happiness in my opinion. I know a lot of comfortable swedes but a lot of them are depressed. Not because of the weather but because of the mediocrity of their existence. When you value comfort so highly you can never take risks, never be courageous because you are too scared to lose your precious comfort and don't know how to cope without it. In short, comfort is overrated.

However there is a lot I value in Scandinavia and above all it is the respect given to ordinary people. And while i do not value comfort that highly i do value social security and respect. It is a fantastic thing and I hope that one day Britain will be more respectful to ordinary people, instead of quite often, treating them like scum.. Which is all too painfully true under this government.

[CalumCookable]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

These developments are for the wealthy only, and designed to be fortified islands in the middle of the city.

The notion that this is the norm in the UK is simply beyond belief.

[Loathing]

Originally Posted by Mr Bricks

It is not. But it might be Britain in 25 years time and Finland in 50, because this is where we're heading. You can't deny that there is an ever growing income gap, growing segregation and a growing number of gated communities in Britain. Then there is the housing crisis and the privatization of public space in the cities. Basically financial institutions and corporations taking over our lives and welfare services being dismantled by the government. We are going back to a 19th century style class society.

This is hysterical and completely untrue. I know you Scandinavians have a reputation for being comically left-wing and out of touch with the real world.

The "growing income gap" is a manipulation of statistics that doesn't mean anything intrinsically. (Statistics are warped by super-rich; super-rich mostly come from abroad; they have little impact (arguably slightly +ve) on London and the quality of life here.)
I'm not witnessing this growing segregation: there are more non-white people in parliament than ever, more non-white and state-schooled people at Oxbridge than ever, more non-white people at the top of major firms than ever; the same applies to women.
I don't know anyone who lives in a gated community; I imagine they're populated by people with anxiety disorders or paranoia; those pictures above certainly don't look like the abodes of the wealthy to me; the wealthiest people I know of live in terraced houses from Mayfair to Chelsea.
There are no notable problems of privatization of public space in London.
Corporations certainly aren't taking over my life. Honestly, with some of these remarks I think you're mistaking Britain for the USA, when the two nations couldn't be more different.
Welfare services are not being dismantled by the government. The most important services have been ring-fenced. The spending cuts that are happening are part of a debt-reduction plan that should allow us to spend more on welfare in the future.

The 19th-century comparison simply makes no sense. Are you even familiar with social stratification in the 19th century?

[PadArch]

Originally Posted by CalumCookable

The notion that this is the norm in the UK is simply beyond belief.

Very true. London for instance is mostly a very well integrated city. There are pockets of rich and poor ghettos but for the majority of people they are living side by side, going to the same schools etc. the school I went to for example was extremely diverse. Far more diverse probably than any school anywhere else in the world, and that's no exaggeration. Londoners live together rich and poor. Yes there are small ghettos of rich and poor but overall it's extremely mixed.

In my experience Londoners tend to understand and familiar with a very wide range of different ideas and cultures, many of which your average Scandinavian hadn't even heard of.