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Old September 22nd, 2012, 03:19 PM   #1
RS_UK-PL
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Kresy

Kresy Wschodnie or Kresy ("Eastern Borderlands", or "Borderlands") is a former territory of the eastern provinces of Poland. These territories today lie in western Ukraine, western Belarus, as well as eastern Lithuania, with such major cities, as Lviv, Vilnius, and Hrodna. This territory was included within the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Second Polish Republic, until World War II. In the interbellum Poland, the term Kresy roughly equated with the lands beyond the Curzon Line, suggested in December 1919 by the British Foreign Office as the eastern border for Poland. In September 1939, after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, these territories were incorporated into the Soviet republics of Ukraine, Belarus and Lithuania.

Lviv/Lwow Historic Centre (UNESCO)
The city of Lviv/Lwow, founded in the late Middle Ages, was a flourishing administrative, religious and commercial centre for several centuries. The medieval urban topography has been preserved virtually intact (in particular, there is evidence of the different ethnic communities who lived there), along with many fine Baroque and later buildings.































Vilnius/Wilno Historic Centre (UNESCO)
Vilnius/Wilno is an outstanding example of a medieval foundation which exercised a profound influence on architectural and cultural developments in a wide area of Eastern Europe over several centuries. In the townscape and the rich diversity of buildings that it preserves, Vilnius/Wilno is an exceptional illustration of a central European town that evolved organically over five centuries.






























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Old September 22nd, 2012, 03:33 PM   #2
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Nesvizh/Nieswiez Castle (UNESCO)
The Radziwill dynasty, who built and kept the ensemble from the 16th century until 1939, gave birth to some of the most important personalities in European history and culture. Due to their efforts, the town of Nesvizh/Nieswiez came to exercise great influence in the sciences, arts, crafts and architecture.











Mir Castle (UNESCO)
The construction of this castle began at the end of the 15th century, in Gothic style. It was subsequently extended and reconstructed, first in the Renaissance and then in the Baroque style. After being abandoned for nearly a century and suffering severe damage during the Napoleonic period, the castle was restored at the end of the 19th century, with the addition of a number of other elements and the landscaping of the surrounding area as a park. Its present form is graphic testimony to its often turbulent history.









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Old September 22nd, 2012, 04:01 PM   #3
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As long as it is not implied in any way that this is all some sort of a "lost Polish heritage" (with the exception of Lviv) or something, this thread should proceed just fine. Otherwise, there will be another bitchfest.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 04:05 PM   #4
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Trakai/Troki Island Castle (UNESCO tentative list)
Trakai/Troki Island Castle is an island castle located in Trakai, Lithuania on an island in Lake Galvė. The castle is sometimes referred to as "Little Marienburg". The construction of the stone castle was begun in the 14th century by Kęstutis, and around 1409 major works were completed by his son Vytautas the Great, who died in this castle in 1430. It was reconstructed between 1935-1961.











Kamyanets-Podilsky/Kamieniec Podolski Castle (UNESCO tentative list)
In 1352, it was annexed by the Polish King Casimir III, and became the capital of Podole Voivodship and the seat of local civil and military administration. The ancient castle was reconstructed and substantially expanded by the Polish kings to defend Poland from the southwest against Ottoman and Tatar invasions.









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Old September 22nd, 2012, 04:30 PM   #5
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Ivano-Frankivsk/Stanislawow
Historic city located in the western Ukraine. Built in the mid 17th century as a private fortress of the Potocki family.











Hrodna/Grodno
It is located on the Neman River, close to the borders of Poland and Lithuania (about 20 km and 30 km away respectively).










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Old September 22nd, 2012, 05:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever... View Post
As long as it is not implied in any way that this is all some sort of a "lost Polish heritage" (with the exception of Lviv) or something, this thread should proceed just fine. Otherwise, there will be another bitchfest.
I suppose that we can fairly call Lviv/Lwow, some smaller cities with Polish majority living there for at least 250-300 years before border changes, castles and palaces built by Polish nobility/royal family, the lost Polish heritage.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 05:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tadek79 View Post
I suppose that we can fairly call Lviv/Lwow, some smaller cities with Polish majority living there for at least 250-300 years before border changes, castles and palaces built by Polish nobility/royal family, the lost Polish heritage.
No. As you then should also call Gdansk, Krakow etc. the German heritage too. It would only be fair to call it Polish-Lithuanian, Polish-Ukrainian heritage as it had only partial Polish presence and for the limited time.

Photos are nice but I don't think the thread will stay unlocked for long with such "Poland strong" attitude of some Polish forumers.

p.s. Thumbs up for RS_UK-PL for not corrupting the names.

By the way, Trakai is inhabited by the Karaim (Turkic Caraite Jews) minority.

Karaim Kenesa of Trakai.



http://commondatastorage.googleapis....l/20554036.jpg

Typical wooden Karaim houses with three windows.



http://www.valstietis.lt/var/ezwebin...article560.jpg



http://www.bicyclelithuania.com/uplo...20Trakuose.jpg

Karaim language school



http://www.trakai.lt/trakai/m/m_imag...ic68me4896.jpg


Catholic church of Trakai, commissioned by Vytautas with recently discovered Byzantine frescos (Similar to the ones of Lublin Chapel)



http://www.trakubaznycia.lt/foto/02-00_baznycia_d.jpg
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 05:35 PM   #8
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Then Lublin, Chelm, Przemysl and other cities are historical Ukrainian cities currently occupied by Poland.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 06:01 PM   #9
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Ukrainian majority in Lublin before WW2?! Any source?

"Krakow etc. the German heritage too" - Krakow?! Any source? I'm almost certainly sure that Poles were in majority in Krakow for at least 400 years before WW2.



Red - Polish majority
Bright red - large Polish minorities

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; September 23rd, 2012 at 04:53 PM.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 06:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Ukrainian majority in Lublin before WW2?! Any source?

"Krakow etc. the German heritage too" - Krakow?! Any source? I'm almost certainly sure that Poles were in majority in Krakow for at least 400 years before WW2.
Germans had a widespread presence in Krakow both in Austrian times and early Crown of Poland, because of large influx of immigrants from Germany and German being the "noble language" (Just like Polish in Lithuania).

Although, I only wanted to say that no city in the teritory that was once Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth is strictly Polish or Lithuanian or Ukrainian or Belarussian. It was a melting pot so it's our mutual heritage. The better name for the thread was "Architecture of PLC".

Vytis on the wall in Warsaw doesn't make the place "Lithuanian" as some some places being the part of Poland for 20 years doesn't make it "Polish". That's all.

Now the time for photos.
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 06:16 PM   #11
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"Although, I only wanted to say that no city in the teritory that was once Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth is strictly Polish or Lithuanian or Ukrainian or Belarussian. It was a melting pot so it's our mutual heritage."

I fully agree with this opinion regarding Kresy territories.

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Old September 22nd, 2012, 08:15 PM   #12
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I'd be happy to update the introduction to this interesting photo thread with some info & maps. And so:

- Kresy (Eastern Borderlands): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kresy

- Now vs. then (state borders)




- Map of Interwar Poland (1919/21-39)




- Poland's territories in 1918 with above 50% of Polish population



Quote:
Originally Posted by whatever... View Post
As long as it is not implied in any way that this is all some sort of a "lost Polish heritage" (with the exception of Lviv) or something, this thread should proceed just fine. Otherwise, there will be another bitchfest.
I think it's exactly the thread where we can show "lost Polish heritage", as noone can claim that eg. Vilnius/Wilno is located in ethnic Polish lands, but it had become a city with the ethnic Polish majority since ca. XVIII century, with significant Polish cultural influence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Depeched View Post
This thread as I see is very nationalistic.
Is it?

Does it bother you at the same time, when Germans have their "nationalistic" threads about Germany in late XIX cent. showing pics of i.a. Wrocław (Breslau) and Szczecin (Stettin)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor L. View Post
+1

More and more I realize what we will never have a good relations with the Poles.
Why? Because we acknowledge the fact that Lviv is an Ukrainian city, but we want to show its Polish heritage?
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Old September 22nd, 2012, 08:46 PM   #13
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These "former territory" threads always end in tears.
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 12:01 PM   #14
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^ I tend to agree, TB - but then again, I decided to reopen the thread. Because it can be of great value for a historical discussion and to get to know more about the origins of the heritage of the region.

But I'll tell you people: Behave in here and don't start any kind of nationalist flamewar - if you start insulting each other, people will receive infractions, brigs or bans. Got it? Good.
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 12:10 PM   #15
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Lviv looks astonishing!
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 12:23 PM   #16
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Pidhirtsi/Podhorce Castle
It was constructed by Guillaume Le Vasseur de Beauplan between 1635–1640 by order of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth's Grand Crown Hetman Stanisław Koniecpolski, on the place of the older fortress. The castle was then part of the Kingdom of Poland and it is regarded as the most valuable of palace-garden complexes in the eastern borderlands (Kresy Wschodnie) of the former Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.











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Old September 23rd, 2012, 12:28 PM   #17
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Olesko Castle
The castle is perhaps most famous for being the birthplace of the Polish king Jan III Sobieski, the hero of the Battle of Vienna. He often lived there, and collected many of the artworks currently displayed in the present-day museum. Another Polish king, King Michał Korybut Wiśniowiecki, was also born here.











Zhovkva/Zolkiew Castle
It was founded by Stanislaw Zolkiewski as his fortified residence. Construction began in 1594 and was mostly completed in 1606.
The golden age of the Zolkiew Castle was the late 17th century when it passed through inheritance to Jakub Sobieski and then to his son John III, a native of Zhovkva. It was there that the king celebrated his victory under the walls of Vienna. In the 18th century the castle's facade was decorated with the statues of its owners from the Zolkiewski, Danilewicz, Sobieski, and Radziwill families.









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Old September 23rd, 2012, 01:37 PM   #18
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Great pics, RS_UK-PL.

It also might be helpful to give a link to the Wiki article related to a given spot/site. What do you think?
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 02:10 PM   #19
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If this provocative thread was opened again, so...

Dear erbse, when there is a banner of Lviv, some Poles write "Lwow - Polish city" and so on. When you will start to struggle with it?

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Old September 23rd, 2012, 02:51 PM   #20
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^
Who cares about whiny nationalists, anyway? Just ignore them.
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