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Old September 25th, 2012, 07:53 PM   #121
Puritan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Igor L. View Post
The wealthiest magnates of the Polish-Lithuanian-Ruthenian state were not Poles.

Ostrozhsky - the old Ruthenian (Ukrainian) Orthodox family.
Vishnevetsky - the old Ruthenian (Ukrainian) Orthodox family.
Radziwill - the old Lithuanian-Belarusian family.

Cathedrals and entire cities were built with money of Ostrozhsky, Vishnevetsky & Radziwill.
It was Polish-Lithuanian state not PL-LT-Ruthenian. All Ruthenian and Lithuanian upper classes adopted Polish culture and later converted to catholicism or protestantism like Wiśniowiecki or Radziwłł so don't get exited.

"Ruthenian and Lithuanian upper classes were drawn towards the more Westernized Polish culture, political and financial benefits of such transition, as well as, sometimes, by the administrative pressure exerted on their own cultural institutions, primarily the Orthodox Church. The conversion to the Roman Catholic faith (and to a lesser extent, Protestant) was often the single most important part of the process as for Ruthenians of that time being Polish culturally."
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Old September 25th, 2012, 07:54 PM   #122
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Nice video about Lwów

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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:03 PM   #123
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2. Union of Lublin was't agreement between Poles and polonised Lithuanians, it was agreement between Poles and Lithuanians for safety against Russia, especially for Lithuanians.
In the 16th century there was no Russia, and was the Tsardom of Muscovy. "Russia" is an artificial name as Romania (from Latin ROMA - Rome).
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:08 PM   #124
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A traditional Polish architecture?
Designed by August Moszczyński, royal chamberlain, he was amateur architect, so that's may be a reason why this church looks awkward. He was active mostly in Warsaw.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:12 PM   #125
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OMG!
I know the name of the architect. I asked about the architecture of the cathedral.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:21 PM   #126
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- Witold was not a king, emperor or ceasar or but only a duke - anyway he died several days before fake crown reached Lithuania
King of Czechs and King of Lithuania. Unfortunately, the crown what was made for him by the Emperor, was STOLEN by Poles, and despite he was proclaimed king by both Lithuanian Jogaila and the Holy Roman Emperor, he was not crowned because of the thieves and soon died in sadness.

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- Union of Lublin was voluntary mutual agreement between Poles and polonised Lithuanians
Your babcia told You so?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_Lublin

Quote:
There were long discussions before signing the treaty, as Lithuanian magnates were afraid of losing much of their powers, since the union would make their legal status equal to that of the much more numerous Polish lower nobility.
Quote:
Sigismund II Augustus, King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania, seeing the threat to Lithuania and eventually to Poland, nonetheless pressed for the union, gradually gaining more followers until he felt enough support to forcibly evict landowners in Ukraine who opposed its transition from Lithuania to Poland.
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In protest against heavy pressure by the Poles to sign the Act, the Lithuanians under the leadership of Vilnius voivod Mikołaj "Rudy" Radziwiłł left Lublin on March 1, fearing that Sigismund would make a decision on his own.
Quote:
Mikołaj Radziwiłł became an advocate of Lithuanian sovereignty and thus a vocal opponent of political union with Poland, (Union of Lublin, 1569). Mikołaj "the Black" Radziwiłł also backed the cause of Lithuania's sovereignty and opposed the growing Polish-Lithuanian union.
Quote:
Mikołaj "The Red" Radziwiłł: "No one could give us, because we are free people. Poles in Lithuania presented the hound dogs, horses Žemaitukai, but not us, free and honorable people ... Everyone who will want to enslave us, I will keep a tyrant rather than my lord."
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The Lithuanians were forced to return to the Sejm under the leadership of Jan Hieronimowicz Chodkiewicz (father of Jan Karol Chodkiewicz) and to continue negotiations, using slightly different tactics than Mikołaj "the Red" Radziwiłł. Though the Polish szlachta wanted full incorporation of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania into the Crown, the Lithuanians continued to oppose this and agreed only to a federal state. On 28 June 1569, the last objections were overcome, and on 4 July an act was accordingly signed by the King at Lublin Castle.
Oh, sorry, these are all lies and actually they there even more patriotic Poles than another pro-Poland (x1000) Pole with genuine Polish name - Albertas Goštautas .

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- funny thing that Suwałki agreement made not a single reference to Vilnius or the Vilnius Region but only to Suwałki region
No, but really, your babcia rocks, I like her stories.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:23 PM   #127
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Designed by August Moszczyński, royal chamberlain, he was amateur architect, so that's may be a reason why this church looks awkward. He was active mostly in Warsaw.
Despite the towers have a bit strange spires, it's still a nice building...
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:31 PM   #128
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Towers of the cathedral are the samples of traditional folk architecture of the Ukrainian Carpathians.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:34 PM   #129
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No, but really, your babcia rocks, I like her stories.
Just read this agreement, I've post the link page earlier.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #130
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Lanckoronski Palace in Rozdol/Rozdil







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Last edited by RS_UK-PL; September 25th, 2012 at 09:08 PM.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:44 PM   #131
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p.s. Western stereotypes about "Eastern Europeans" as nationalist and close-minded people seams to be true...
__________________
Сьогодні я українець.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:49 PM   #132
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@ vilniusguide

Unfortunately my "babcia" wasn't autor of Suwałki agreement:

http://web.archive.org/web/201107230...4/00038658.pdf

Not a single reference to Vilnius or the Vilnius Region

Albertas Goštautas - Last of the Mohicans

Vytautas - King of Czechs lol - Czechs never heard of him.

List of rulers of Bohemia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Bohemia

He was postulated king of Hussites and never became a king.

Crown was fake because it was issued illegally: "without proper ceremony and the legal basis"
source: Cambridge historical journal

But it's of course anti-Lithuanain conspiracy. Secret agreement between Poland-Cambridge Univ. and uninformed Czechs.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:52 PM   #133
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Why so nervous Grazvydas? I'll tell you a secret. I really love Lithuania. Love it just as much as Pomerania, Mazovia, Silesia or Masuria.

Now back to the beautiful architecture of Kresy Wschodnie, please!
Not nervous, have fun representing actual facts against Polish Romantism.
And what about You, Grześku, nervous?
Me to love Yotvingia and Galindija as much as Samogitia or Aukštaitija, especially hilly relief of that lands and refreshing lakes.
BTW, congratulations with the new, perfect outdoor stage in Elk(as), old city of the Duke Skalmantas, opened today.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 08:58 PM   #134
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p.s. Western stereotypes about "Eastern Europeans" as nationalist and close-minded people seams to be true...
Just like everybody else.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #135
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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:02 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Puritan View Post
He was postulated king of Hussites and never became a king.

Crown was fake because it was issued illegally: "without proper ceremony and the legal basis"
source: Cambridge historical journal

But it's of course anti-Lithuanain conspiracy. Secret agreement between Poland-Cambridge Univ. and uninformed Czechs.
Really? And I haven't heard of any Polish kings, where there any?

I've heard the crown of Mieszko was actually fake and carved of wood, but of course this all is just anti-Polish propoganda and Samogitian world conspiration (just like in case of always Polish Wilno).
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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:07 PM   #137
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Mieszko I was not crowned.

There is a big difference between what you heard and dreamed of and between credible historical sources.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:20 PM   #138
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The true son of Kresy Wschodnie - Generał Lucjan Żeligowski/Generałs Lucjans Żeligowskis



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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:21 PM   #139
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Towers of the cathedral are the samples of traditional folk architecture of the Ukrainian Carpathians.
It was built as Catholic church and the architect was a Polish guy that had nothing to do with the region. The towers toppings look out of place because, as I've found after a little research, they were added later.

Last edited by uunxx; September 25th, 2012 at 09:26 PM.
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Old September 25th, 2012, 09:24 PM   #140
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Narutowicz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanis%C5%82aw_Narutowicz
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