Classic Architecture of Lithuania

[RS_UK-PL]

Originally Posted by Prosp

Check this one :
http://lithuanianmaps.com/images/1912_Polska.jpg

I've found the source of this map: Samuel Orgelbrand's "Universal Encyclopedia" (T.18, p.422). The map is showing the % of ethnic Poles in the Polish-Lithuanian area (it was published under the Russian rule and all the information had to be accepted by Russian censor).

What's your opinion on the following map from 1916: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._1916_roku.jpg? It makes a bit more sense, if you'll compare it with the areas where Polish-speaking population is today:
* Lithuania
* Belarus

Originally Posted by Prosp

http://mapsof.net/map/europa-polyglotta

This one is very inaccurate (Polish language is almost in the whole Eastern Europe, but not on territories of today's Poland), so it doesn't look like a good source.

Originally Posted by Prosp

After WW2 many russian speaking people in Vilnius region went to Polish schools. Many of them have russian surnames.

For instance, one journalist from Poland could not speak with them in Polish when she was making her reportage.

Probably you mean Northern Kresy dialect (which is slightly different than ordinary Polish, because it was isolated for last ~70 years) and I suppose their names are of the Ruthenian origin (not Russian). I assume that Poles really don't care if Polish-speaking Lithuanians are West Slavs or East Slavs (Ruthenians), if they are preserving Polish culture, language, heritage, etc.

Originally Posted by Prosp

Another thing - as i mentioned - during interwar, lithuanian language was banned (actually, mosty lithuanian teachers) from local school, particular in countrysides.

And Polish language was banned in the independent Lithuania after 1918 or was not?

Originally Posted by Prosp

Yes, many things were and are confusing, but everything depends on our attitude toward many controversial questiants and your attemps to understand differences..

I agree with you completely. Thank you for your quick responses. You're a star

[Prosp]

This one is very inaccurate (Polish language is almost in the whole Eastern Europe, but not on territories of today's Poland), so I it doesn't look like a good source.

Well, this map is quite interesing, because of sample of lithuanian language. rare thing.

Probably you mean Northern Kresy dialect (which is slightly different than ordinary Polish, because it was isolated for last ~70 years) and I suppose their names are of the Ruthenian origin (not Russian). I assume that Poles really don't care if Polish-speaking Lithuanians are West Slavs or East Slavs (Ruthenians).

Northern Kresy - tutejshy?
The dialect which is common in particularly south-east part of Lithuania/Vilnius region (Šalčininkai, near Belarus border) and it was formed in the process of assimilition between many cultures and languages. After ww2, there were even "variations of dialect", for example, if one part of region was close to lithuanian populated territory, there would be ~40 per cent of lithuanian words; if one part was close to belarus, so there you will find more ruthenian origin words...

And Polish language was banned in the independent Lithuania after 1918 or was not?

If we are speaking about polish schools in Lithuania during interwar, the answer would be not. For instance:
~1922 - 27 schools, ~3400 pupils
~1927 - 24 schools + 2 private schools.
~1930 - 30 schools.

In Kaunas there was a special Polish credit union and so on.
http://www.autc.lt/Public/HeritageOb...=frykas&type=2

Only the main problem was action of local authority. yes, 20cent, ther were problems in every country, but the actions, behaviour of local authority members, priests and so on to attracts different nationallity (it was the main criterion at that time) children to attend one or another school (polish, german, lithuanian etc.) actually had not changed even today....It is a question of political culture.

[/QUOTE]

[Depeched]

Some Drawings of Gothic examples of Lithuania

XVI c. Bernardinai church





XV-XVI c. Vilnius St. Anna church

[Depeched]

About XVI-XVII c. defence systems of Lithuania cities will be later.
These systems had:
Vilnius,
Kaunas,
Biržai,
Klaipėda,

XVI-XVIII c. Biržai castle

the best preserved bastion fort in Lithuania located in Biržai town, the North of Lithuania. It is a renaissance building which is a cultural and architectural monument.

Building works of the castle started in 1586 by an order of Mikalojus Radvila Perkūnas (pol. Krzysztof Radziwiłł Piorun). The castle then was fenced with fillings and trenches filled with waters from a pond ( the oldest pond in Lithuania, nowadays known as a Širvėnos lake). An access to the castle was only available while walking a bridge built on the eastern bulwark of the castle. Inside the Biržai castle there were stables, food storages, arsenal, a mansion.
During the war with Sweden, Biržai castle was an important Lithuanian fort. In 1625 the castle was under a siege by Sweden military forces. 8000 Sweden soldiers besieged the Biržai castle. After the second assault they smashed into the castle and at the end the castle was ruined. Swedens took away 60 cannons. The Biržai castle was demolished by Sweden 2 more times during its` history. Despite that, the castle was an example of European civil and war buildings in 16th-17th centuries. In 1811 the castle was finally restored by graphs Tiškevičiai (pol. Tyszkiewicz, bel. Тышкевічы), in addition to this, Russian Emperor Alexander ordered to preserve ruins of the castle. In the 19th – 20th centuries a beautiful garden was lied around the castle. The system of protecting fillings and trenches remained till nowadays maybe these remains were conserved in 1955-1962. Years passed thus more and more parts of the former potent castle were restored and rebuilt. Powder flasks, a bridge, gates, central and the western walls – all these parts were professionally renovated and the whole castle became a significant part of regional history museum.

Nowadays Biržai castle serves as a museum and as a venue for various cultural events and performances. The inside history museum “Sėla” is established in 25 halls inside the Biržai castle. Visitors here can get acquainted with history of Biržai town and region, in addition, there is an authentic and the only one of its` kind in Lithuania tile furnace made in 17th century exposed.

http://www.way2lithuania.com/en/trav.../birzai-castle

My travel photos (2011 01 18)

1. Firstly bridge and remains of gate of castle


2. Major palace of castle














Rebuilding arsenal of castle


Photo by Aukselis from miestai.net/forumas

Aerophoto


www.aruodai.lt


www.selonija.lt

Attack of Biržai in 1704 by Sweden army


miestai.net


By Almis from miestai.net/forumas

[Depeched]

Palace of Grand Dukes (Royal) Palace of Grand Duchy of Lithuania


http://www.vpd.lt/uploads/b_slides/slide_3.png

Shortly:

Palace was built in XV-XVI c.

Gothic lower castle was built by Aleksandras Jogailaitis (Alexander) in 1492-1506.
Žygimantas Senasis (Sigismund I the Old) reconstrated palace to renaissance style till 1530, his son Žygimantas Senasis (Sigismund II Augustus) also something changed here. During reign of Vasa dynasty (Žygimantas Vaza (Sigismund III Vasa) and Vladislaus IV Vasa) palace took some the early baroque features.Here were adopted representatives from Apostolic throne, Holy Roman Empire, Moscow, Hungury, Hungary, Turkey, Persia, France, Spain, Venice, Tuscany, Mantua, Ferrara and others. It was place were gathered Lithuanian Council of Lords, sejm. There was a rich collection of art. Here was one of richest library in Europe. Royal palace story ended in 1655, during the attack the Russian army ,Vilnius was buried, destroyed two weeks, after 1655 War during Sweden and Russia Grand Duchy of Lithuania and all Republic of Two nations have never fully recovered. After Russia Empire Occupation in 1795, soon palace was demolished. In 2000, after significant archeological excavations, it was decided to rebuilt palace.

Excavations in 1988


http://v1.valdovurumai.lt/Bylos/Iliu...diniai1_lg.jpg

Example of iconographic materials











Rebuilding project




http://media.valdovurumai.lt/images/...e5fde755e0.jpg


http://www.lietuvospilys.lt/images/maketai/foto_19.jpg

Current views




















photos from 15min.lt

















Findings from the palace place during archeological excavations and future exhibits, now that's all stored in other museum









Palace still not opened but as you saw It hosts various events







All photos from page: www.valdovurumai.lt

[CF221]

Beautiful reconstruction!

[Depeched]

More from Royal Palace Of G.D.Lithuania

Palace from above during rebuilding 2008


http://www.fotoskrydis.lt/wp-content...i/cimg1243.jpg

2009


http://www.fotoskrydis.lt/wp-content...ldovurumai.jpg

Panorama views
by www.fotoskrydis.lt

Push on pictures and you will see all panorama view
Red lines on square show former other buildings of Vilnius lower castle



Upper and lower castles remains with Vilnius oldtown

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Reconstruction of Vilnius castles in XV c.
Photos by SP from miestai.net/forumas




In XVII c.





Nowdays view

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Area of Vilnius lower, upper and Kreivoji castle and part of oldtown
Royal palace still not started to rebuild


http://www.aruodai.lt/paieska/vaizdas.php?VId=2804


http://www.aruodai.lt/paieska/vaizdas.php?VId=2805

[Depeched]

Radvilos palace in Vilnius (destroyed)
(bel. Радзіві́лы, pol. Radziwiłłowie)

Palace was destroyed in XIX c.


By N. Orda

The palace was built in XVI c. near Neris river. Complex consisted of two parts: palace of Barbora Radvilaitė (pol. Barbara Radziwiłłówna, bel. Барбара Радзівіл) and palace of Jurgis Radvila (pol. Jerzy Radziwiłł,bel. Юры Радзівіл)

How this place looks like now


http://www.worldmapfinder.com/BingMa...a_Vilnius.html

[Depeched]

Panemunė/Gelgaudai, Vytėnai castle

Located in Western part of Lithuania, on the right bank of Nemunas river.
The initial hillfort of the Teutonic Knights (erected 1343) was replaced by a castle built in 1604-1610 and reconstructed around 1759 by Gelgaudai family. Remaining wings of the castle have been recently restored.



Large photo from above




image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr




image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


View of castle in XIX c. by N. Orda

[Depeched]

Raudonė castle
XVI-XVII c.
Architects: Nornhardt
Later: L. S. Gucevičius, Cesare Anichini

Located near Nemunas river, about 50 km to west from Kaunas city.
Castle construction works started in late 16th century. In the 16th century the castle belonged to King Sigismund II August. A new renaissance castle was built on the ruins of the old one by a German knight, Krispin de Kirschenstein. Castle very suffered during WWI. Current view of castle is a little bit changed. Higest tower is 33,5 m which was destroyed during WWII, but rebuilt in 1965, but interior was damaged during Soviet era.

image hosted on flickr

All rights reserved by Evaldas Liutkus
image hosted on flickr

All rights reserved by Evaldas Liutkus

image hosted on flickr

Alll rights reserved by _kristute_

View from above


"Unseen Lithuania"



Castle plan

www.autc.lt


http://cdn1.360cities.net/pano/saulo...crop_3_1/5.jpg

Raudonė castle after WWII

www.autc.lt

[KonstantinasŠirvydas]

Let us look at the traditional wooden houses of Vilnius.
http://www.vsaa.lt/medine_arch_en.htm

Building from wood dominated in our region from prehistoric times up to the II half of the XX century. Due to unique character and originality the Lithuanian wooden architectural heritage on the European level can be compared to the Lithuanian baroque. There are approximately 2000 of wooden buildings in Vilnius centre, and 200 of them are registered as protected properties.

http://www.vsaa.lt

Wooden "castle" on Čiurlionis street.

http://www.vsaa.lt

Wooden house on Baltasis lane.

http://www.vsaa.lt


http://www.vsaa.lt

Wooden "stronghold" on Filaretai street.

http://www.vsaa.lt


http://www.vsaa.lt

Restaurant on Gucevičius street.
image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11537676@N06/7935166126/

House on Vytautas street.

http://www.vsaa.lt

Another house on Vytautas street.

http://www.vsaa.lt

House on Pušų street.

http://www.vsaa.lt

House on Antakalnis street.

vilnius21.lt

http://nuotraukos.vilnius21.lt/namai...4a-1407814.jpg

Detail of another house on Antakalnis street.

vilnius21.lt

Again one of many wooden houses on Antakalnis street. Not renovated yet.

vilnius21.lt

House on Grybas street.

wiki

Vasaros street.

vilnius21.lt


vilnius21.lt

Pacas street.



savaitgalis.lt


meniu.lt

Another house on Pacas street.

vilnius21.lt

Cool wooden "castle" on the same street.
http://nuotraukos.vilnius21.lt/namai...o5-3423213.jpg

Wooden church in Pavilnys.

wiki

And many many more.

P.S. What are these "funny" tags?

[KonstantinasŠirvydas]

By the way, I saw recently there was a fight over Palanga town just like in 1920s with Latvia, but this time Poland was trying to capture this sea resort.
Advancing Polish troops were throwing tombs and were using far-range relative tactics from Belarussian branch of the Family, that we, Lithuania, call Devintas vanduo nuo kisieliaus or Dešimtas kaulas nuo šikinės.

I accidentally ran at some articles and pictures and want to share them here as to settle the new dispute over Palanga just like Lord James Simpson did.

Not a fan of cemeteries like our Polish colleagues, but let it be. Here is a tomb of the former owner of the Palanga manor - Alfredas Tiškevičius.



photos: miestai.net

Also, some extracts from Lithuanian newspapers and historical facts from other sources. This may lead some to sudden heart stroke, so be careful with this stuff. To prevent You from this, I will not translate it, but will let to put the text to the translator, so it will take more time, that will save some sensitive peoples' lifes.
P.S. Short descriptions I wrote, so be careful, they may be dangerous for Korona inhabitants.

First of all, I would like to show here an interview with Alfredas Tiškevičius.

- Pradėjote pokalbį dar gana gražia žemaitiška šneka. Nuo to laiko, kai Jūs gyvenote Žemaitijoje, praėjo tiek metų, o šios kalbos, nors ja tėvų namuose ir nekalbėjote, neužmiršote...

- Išaugau Palangoje. Mano draugai buvo žemaičiai, tad su jais nuo mažens bendravau ir jų gimtąja kalba šnekėjau. Na, o tai, kas vaikystėje išmokta, taip greit neužsimiršta, nors jau prieš pat karą, išvykus į Kauną, retai kada prisieidavo kalbėti žemaitiškai. Ten naujieji mano bičiuliai daugiausia buvo aukštaičiai, tad su jais bendraudavome bendrine lietuvių kalba - būdavo lyg tai ir nepatogu žemaitiškai su aukštaičiu kalbėti. Žemaičių kalbos niekada neniekinau, nors dar tarpukario metais tekdavo sutikti žemaičių, kurie gėdydavosi savo gimtosios motinos kalbos... Jie manydavo, kad, kalbėdami žemaitiškai, nieko gyvenime nepasieks, nes, aukštaičiai juos laikys žemesnės kilmės žmonėmis. Man toks požiūris visai nepatiko. Dabar, atvažiavęs į Lietuvą, Žemaitiją, matau, kad vis dėlto didžioji dalis žemaičių išliko žemaičiais iki pat šiol. Tas mane labai džiugina. Na, o gyvendamas Lenkijoje, Varšuvoje, net ir lietuviškai beveik neturėjau su kuo kalbėti. Pradžioje, per karą, Lenkijoje buvo vokiečių okupacija, o po karo - pusiau rusų okupacija. Valdžia, nors ir buvo lenkiška, bet priklausė nuo rusų - įstatymai ėjo iš Maskvos. Aš žinojau, kas vyko Lietuvoje prie sovietinės valdžios 1940 metais ir po karo. Tad, Lenkijoje susiklosčius minėtoms politinėms sąlygoms, aš priėjau išvados, kad nereikia niekam aiškinti, kokia mano kilmė, kad mano jaunystė praėjo Lietuvoje. Tuo laiku niekas nebuvo tikras, kad neįvyks koks nors nesusipratimas ir Lenkija neatsidurs dar didesnėje rusų valdžioje. Tada man, grafų Tiškevičių sūnui, ko gero, būtų reikėję atsirasti Sibire...

- Kaip Jūs atsidūrėte Lenkijoje?

- 1940 metais, prieš įvedant sovietinę valdžią Lietuvoje, kartą aš su motociklu stovėjau pasienyje. Vokiečiai, pamatę mane, įtarė kažką negero ir suėmė. Kai patekau į jų kalėjimą, kišenėje nė cento neturėjau, nė muilo gabalo nebuvau pasiėmęs. Tad, kai į Lietuvą atėjo rusai, aš sėdėjau vokiečių kalėjime Tilžėje. Tuo laiku man tai buvo tikras išsigelbėjimas - rusai manęs Lietuvoje nerado ir į Sibirą neišvežė. Beje, jie netikėjo, kad aš galiu būti vokiečių kalėjime - manė, kad aš esu pabęgęs. Kai vokiečiai, pripažinę jog esu nekaltas, paleido iš kalėjimo, man jie leido apsigyventi Lenkijoje, taip jų tada vadinamoje generalinėje gubernijoje. Tada aš grįžau į pasienį, prie Bajorų, pas vieną ūkininką, kur vėliau atvyko ir mano pirmoji žmona su septynių mėnesių vaiku. Eitavičius suorganizavo žmonos pabėgimą per žalią sieną į vokiečių pusę. Tada visi trys nuvažiavome į Varšuvą. Ten gyveno žmonos šeima, tad ir mes ten pasilikome. Po to man grįžti į Lietuvą iki pat Nepriklausomybės atkūrimo jau buvo nebeįmanoma - ten manęs laukė tik represijos, trėmimas.

Full: http://www.pgm.lt/gintaro_muziejus/tiskev_interviu.htm

In short. Tiškevičius tells the journalist, from where h perfectly knows Samogitian dialect of Lithuanian. Tiškevičius tells him, how he was sad, that in Kaunas he couldn't speak in Samogitian dialect, but must use Aukshtaitian. Tells the differences of these ethnographic groups and later explains how he was sad, that there were no people to speak in Lithuanian in Warszawa, where he was forced to move, because of the threat to him in USSR.

Please breath. all. These are the facts.
http://www.pgm.lt/Istorija/grafai_tiskeviciai.htm

Juozapo sūnus, Lenkijos kariuomenės pulkininkas Mykolas Tiškevičius (1761-1839) pirmasis susidomėjo Lietuvos pajūriu. Jis 1824 m. liepos 13 d. nusipirko Palangos valdą su Darbėnų, Grūšlaukės ir Palangos dvarais. Jo sūnus Jonas Tiškevičius (1801-1862) Biržuose įsteigė lietuvišką mokyklą, pastatė Šv. Jono Krikštytojo bažnyčią.

Jonas Tiškevičius established lithuanian language school in Biržai in the mid-19th century.

That is just heartbreaking...

Iš Juozapo dukterų būtina paminėti Mariją Tiškevičiūtę (1871-1941). Ji garbino žirgų sportą, mėgo literatūrą, pati bandė rašyti. 1896 m. Laumės Lelivaitės slapyvardžiu „Tėvynės sarge“ paskelbė istorinę apysaką „Viskantas“, kurią į lietuvių kalbą išvertė
Kretingos vienuolyno kunigas K. Kazlauskas. Spaudos draudimo metais grafaitė gabeno uždraustą literatūrą - pasinaudodama tuo, kad rusų muitininkai ir žandarai jos karietos netikrindavo, Klaipėdoje iš sutartos vietos paimdavo lietuviškos spaudos siuntą ir parveždavo į Kretingą arba Palangą.

1898 m. brolio dvare Kretingoje, prie ligoninėje veikusios prieglaudos ji atidarė pirmajį lietuvišką vaikų darželį.

Marija Tiškevičiūtė was smuggling banned Lithuanian books and literature. Established Lithuanian language kindergarten in 1898.

Aleksandras Tiškevičius puikiai suprato lietuvių tautos siekius. 1897 m. Kauno gubernatoriui S. Suchodolskiui adresuotame laiške jis pasisakė už tai, kad būtų grąžinta lietuviška spauda lotyniškais rašmenimis, įrodinėjo lietuvių atžvilgiu vykdomos rusų politikos absurdiškumą. Jis nedraudė savo vežikui kartu su grafu karietoje iš Klaipėdos į Kretingą vežti uždraustos lietuviškos spaudos siuntinius. Prie dvaro veikė nelegali mokykla, kurioje tarnautojų ir miestelėnų vaikai buvo mokomi rašto, lenkų, rusų ir lietuvių kalbų, ruošiami prie pirmosios komunijos. Joje mokėsi ir grafo vaikai. Pats Aleksandras šnekėjo žemaitiškai ir siekė, kad šią kalbą išmoktų ir jo vaikai. Grafas buvo tarp tų šviesuolių, kurie apskrities centre Telšiuose 1909 m. įkūrė gimnaziją.

1919 m. grafas buvo išrinktas I-uoju Kretingos valsčiaus tarybos pirmininku, aktyviai dalyvavo kuriant savivaldą, 1924 m. parašė ir išleido brošiūrą „Visiems lietuviams ir lietuvaitėms, kuriems rūpi Lietuvos gerovė ir reikšmė“, kurioje įrodinėja savivaldos būtinumą ir reikšmę valsčiaus gyvenime.

Was heavily criticizing the ban on Lithuanian press. Illegal Lithuanian language school was working in his manor. In 1924 wrote a book in Lithuanian "For every Lithuanian men and women, who care about the welfare and importance of the Motherland".

Trečiasis sūnus Kazimieras Tiškevičius (1896-1941) baigė kavalerijos karo mokyklą, I-ojo pasaulinio karo metais kariavo su vokiečiais. 1918 m. įstojo savanoriu į Lietuvos kariuomenę, vadovavo I-ojo husarų pulko kulkosvaidžių eskadronui, dalyvavo kovose su bolševikais, bermontininkais ir lenkais.

Kazimieras Tiškevičius. As a volunteer joined the army of Independent Lithuania. During the wars of Independence, was fighting against Germans, Russian commies and Poles.

Ten įstojo į Lietuvių aktyvistų frontą - pogrindinę organizaciją, kuri ruošėsi pasipriešinti okupantams. Dalyvavo 1941 m. birželio sukilime. Veždamas trofėjine rusiška mašina sunkiai sužeistus sukilėlius į ligoninę, prie Skuodo vokiečių buvo apšaudytas ir nukautas. Iš pradžių buvo palaidotas Narvydžių (Skuodo) kapinėse, o frontui nuslinkus į rytus - perkeltas į Tiškevičių šeimos koplyčią Kretingos kapinėse.

In 1941 joined patriotic Lithuanian army - Lietuvių aktyvistų frontas, that was created to resist occupants.

Please do not treat me like a troll as I was only to settle the dispute, that take up more than half of this thread (one may look back), and without a result, but only armistice.
So now it seams clear thing here and there will be no more need to come back to Palanga, Kretinga in any of the thread.

No, really, I am not against Polish names, but the arrogance of Poles, who spoil Lithuanian threads and shout, that Lithuanian nobles almost had nothing in common with Lithuania, her people, language and culture, but only like Polish conquistadors, working as gubernators, sent from Imperial Warszawa to look after "those dirty pagan peasants Lithuanas", made me to write this long, descriptive message.

[Depeched]

Very interesting about Tiškevičiai familly.

Restauration of renaissance Siesikai castle. Near Ukmergė
























photos by http://www.15min.lt/gallery/show/sie...lis-29392?p=36

[KonstantinasŠirvydas]

The owner of that palace is a saint and martyr of heritage protection and restoration!
He resurrected the castle from scratch on his own initiative and money, without even centas, asked from the government or international funds! What a great man!

[greg111]

[QUOTE=KonstantinasŠirvydas;98194531] The owner of that palace is a saint and martyr of heritage protection and restoration!
A, kto jest właścicielem, jesli można spytać?

[jose valderama]

Great pics!
Lithuania looks like a little bit poorer sister of Poland that I visit once a year. Next year I will spend some time in Wilno/Vilniusas for sure

[Depeched]

Originally Posted by jose valderama

Great pics!
Lithuania looks like a little bit poorer sister of Poland that I visit once a year. Next year I will spend some time in Wilno/Vilniusas for sure

What it mean poorer and what it mean sister. By the why, not Vilniusas, but Vilnius.

[jose valderama]

What I mean is, both your countries look quite similar, but judging from the pictures posted in this thread Lithuania looks a little bit poorer.