If you were to create your ultimate city (from scratch), what would be your main priority to make it successful?

[Dahlis]

Classic town planning, no modernistic experiments allowed.

[Dahlis]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

I thought suburbia provides those features already... maybe why not? I thought also about ZipCars too, but I think we need some sort of combinations to bring suburbia to the dense city.

Most suburbs are failed and a result of modernistic town planning. Moderncitic town planning = experiments.

[zaphod]

I'd look the the number of heating degree days per year though. And inland climates that freeze can get hot enough for AC too, don't forget that.

My idealized city would do district heating and cooling in it's denser areas. If the city was coastal, there could be a seawater pipeline system.

some futuristic individual transportation system such as PRTs

IMO Computerized self-driving electric cars and buses that can operate on a low cost conventional pavement surface are going to be better than some rail-based fixed guideway system for lower capacity multiple destination type applications.

[poshbakerloo]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Sure, I understand what you're thinking. But, would you rather see a compact apartment that has everything in it like in Tokyo (efficient use of space) or a large home with lots of open space for you and your family only?

Plus, what makes driving more effective than taking transit if you've got thousands of people living in a block of flats? That would shave thousands of cars off the roadways.

Living in small apartments and travelling on the subway is only seen as the most 'efficient' way to live as many cities suffer from congestion, but if the congestion isn't a problem in the first place then I'm sure most people would choose the big house and personal car option.

[zaphod]

Saving on housing and transport costs is desirable for some people. In a huge city houses are usually pretty expensive even in the suburbs, and if you aren't attached to your car, not paying one for one can save you a lot of money. Also there's the lock-and-leave part of living in an apartment or condo. Suburban houses require regular maintenance and while you could pay someone else, it's still something you have to worry about.

[poshbakerloo]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

What do you mean by "failed" experiments? Provide examples.

The grouping services and zones into separate places, and separating transport from open spaces has all been done before. Any 1960s-70s new town in the UK does that, and it let to people feeling isolated, and the connection between these areas being over truncated and heavily congested.

[poshbakerloo]

My City

The city centre should have a big selection of shops, offices, hotels, restaurants and night life. Some pedestrian areas, but not too many as to avoid the 'open top shopping mall' feel that having too many pedestrian areas can cause. Also some high class, high rise apartments aimed at young professionals, childless couples, and 'week day work pads'. No affordable family apartments with in the city.

A few large inner city rail terminals, linked together by a subway that links out to the suburbs, and the airport.

Have some kind of inner ring road, although not too big, maybe dual 2 lanes, with wide surface pedestrian crossing, wide pavements and lined with trees.

Further out should medium density houses, maybe a few apartments, and large suburban homes beyond that. Small commercial sectors should be evenly mixed in with this residential area as to reduce the pressure on access to the city centre.

Around the edge of the city should be a large orbital motorway acting as a bypass.

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by poshbakerloo

My City

The city centre should have a big selection of shops, offices, hotels, restaurants and night life. Some pedestrian areas, but not too many as to avoid the 'open top shopping mall' feel that having too many pedestrian areas can cause. Also some high class, high rise apartments aimed at young professionals, childless couples, and 'week day work pads'. No affordable family apartments with in the city.

A few large inner city rail terminals, linked together by a subway that links out to the suburbs, and the airport.

Have some kind of inner ring road, although not too big, maybe dual 2 lanes, with wide surface pedestrian crossing, wide pavements and lined with trees.

Further out should medium density houses, maybe a few apartments, and large suburban homes beyond that. Small commercial sectors should be evenly mixed in with this residential area as to reduce the pressure on access to the city centre.

Around the edge of the city should be a large orbital motorway acting as a bypass.

For the city center, oh yes, those are also my ideals... We share similar ideas! That sounds like a typical American city, minus the inner city rail termini and subway lines: those are replaced by buses and carpools. The inner ring road gives me an impression that it would be either an expressway or a parkway, which is a good concept if you have a medium-sized city.

As for suburbia, it looks like you're thinking of mixed zones... Impressive ideas.

[poshbakerloo]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

For the city center, oh yes, those are also my ideals... We share similar ideas! That sounds like a typical American city, minus the inner city rail termini and subway lines: those are replaced by buses and carpools. The inner ring road gives me an impression that it would be either an expressway or a parkway, which is a good concept if you have a medium-sized city.

As for suburbia, it looks like you're thinking of mixed zones... Impressive ideas.

The inner ring road would be more of a parkway, but with buildings facing onto it. This model is similar to many cities, and it works.

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by poshbakerloo

The inner ring road would be more of a parkway, but with buildings facing onto it. This model is similar to many cities, and it works.

Will there be service roads or frontage roads next to the parkway that would act as the main road to the buildings or houses?

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

All right. The challenges of a city located in a latitude with prolonged frost would be:

- that city would suffer from a sense of isolation because the community may not be accessible when snowfall comes in
- snow can be tricky to work with, requiring specialized trucks (snowmobiles included!) to plow through the heavy snow (and don't forget to add salt to melt it all down and become passable again for cars and trucks)
- the compromise for a prolonged frost would be a short summer... And the city's short summer could bring in another set of challenges (e.g. Will the city hold its own summer festivities, will there be enough open space for the kids to enjoy the water and adults to play on the greenery?) and that you need to account its distance from a big city
- infrastructure-wise, you would need to either power it through tall wooden poles or dig them completely underground. The issue of digging utilities underground would be how to prevent the pipes and wires from freezing when the temperature above them falls below freezing, as well as how will you ensure that blackouts will rarely happen. On top of that, you might also consider building an airport to make the city more accessible
- creating a park that could serve as a relaxing place can be fine in the summer; in the winter, however, people might just stay at home. So think of a park wherein people can go to that park in the summer and winter (I.e. does the lake freeze? Will it have a concert space for performers to play during the cold winter nights? Will there be ample space for families to hold snow building contests?) this pretty much reminds me of Sapporo.

Something tells me you've never lived in a northern city. You'd have to travel hundreds of miles north of the frost line before you start encountering latitudes where the winter starts becoming a big obstacle.

Isolation? The Romans invented roads 2000 years ago, salt thousands of years ago, and snow plows have been around for over a century. Places like Chicago are no more isolated than places like Dallas.

Northern cities are used to snow and are well equipped to deal with snow just like southern cities are used to dealing with skin cancer. It's quite amusing to watch some cities come to a complete stand still after just a few feet of snow. That's a result of inexperience and lack of equipment more than snow being an insurmountable problem.

Having a winter doesn't mean you don't have summer and northerners are outside 12 months of the year any way. Southern cities have to endure a never ending summer and all the negatives that come with that. Where will the winter festivals be held? Where can people go to enjoy the snow/winter wonder land?

Underground pipes? Don't we already have that and why would you want those above ground?

[weava]

I think the core of a successful city must be a strong education system/universities with a diversified economy.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

I thought suburbia provides those features already... maybe why not? I thought also about ZipCars too, but I think we need some sort of combinations to bring suburbia to the dense city.

Yes, failed experiments....

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by weava

I think the core of a successful city must be a strong education system/universities with a diversified economy.

I totally agree with that one. Bringing in great schools and properly funding them would bring in more investments for prospective companies, which would translate to high-paying, high-quality jobs, which could rake in bigger tax revenues that would translate to more funding for schools and keeping qualified and reputable teachers and professors. It's a series of policies that can make or break a city's educational attainment.

[zaphod]

Places like Chicago are no more isolated than places like Dallas.

Anecdotally, DFW airport always gets iced during the winter. I'm sure ORD has way more snow days, obviously, but even some warm places can be crippled by that one ice storm a year they aren't prepared for.

[poshbakerloo]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Will there be service roads or frontage roads next to the parkway that would act as the main road to the buildings or houses?

No service roads, I think the service access could be from the back as so reduce congestion and awkward movements on the Parkway. The buildings would front onto wide pavements, maybe even as wide as each carriageway as that the cars don't cause too much disruption with noise etc, and the road would be lined with trees that would grow into large mature trees.

The pavements would also have their own lights (smaller and more ornate than the street lights) rather than just using the light from street lights, so that they are bright at night and a nice place to walk even late at night.

[CNB30]

I think a truly dense urban city with plenty of industries walk able neighborhoods, beautiful non-modern architecture, a good key location with much transportation infrastructure, and a unique culture will get you a successful city.

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by poshbakerloo

No service roads, I think the service access could be from the back as so reduce congestion and awkward movements on the Parkway. The buildings would front onto wide pavements, maybe even as wide as each carriageway as that the cars don't cause too much disruption with noise etc, and the road would be lined with trees that would grow into large mature trees.

The pavements would also have their own lights (smaller and more ornate than the street lights) rather than just using the light from street lights, so that they are bright at night and a nice place to walk even late at night.

Will you put in traffic lights along your parkways, or will you build grade-separated exits to deal with interchanges or crossings? Ornate sidewalk lighting can indeed reduce blight and potential criminal activity... but how will you manage a potential expense of keeping them on all night to keep the pedestrians safe? Are you going to use solar-powered sidewalk lamps?

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by CNB30

I think a truly dense urban city with plenty of industries walk able neighborhoods, beautiful non-modern architecture, a good key location with much transportation infrastructure, and a unique culture will get you a successful city.

Great summary right there! Question though: when you say lots of industries, what kind/s of industries will you put in your city, and where?

Also as a heads-up: I will also ask a question soon on an important issue: cities and taxes.

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by mhays

Yes, failed experiments....

What kinds of failed experiment would you like to work on in your ideal city? Like moving walkways instead of sidewalks? Personal pods as transportation mode? Expansion of the Maglev network? I would like to hear more from you.