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Old November 18th, 2012, 01:09 PM   #201
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Lwow (cont.)








Stryjski (Jan Kilinski) Park in Lwow








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Old November 18th, 2012, 01:11 PM   #202
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Poznan


















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Old November 18th, 2012, 01:11 PM   #203
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Poznan (cont.)


















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Old November 18th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #204
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Poznan (cont.)
























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Old November 18th, 2012, 01:12 PM   #205
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Poznan (cont.)
















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Old November 18th, 2012, 01:13 PM   #206
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Some parks in Poznan...






The Palm House


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Old November 18th, 2012, 01:18 PM   #207
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Some palaces and castles near Lwow (today's Ukraine)...

Maria Urbańska Palace in Tartaków


Kornel Krzeczunowicz Palace in Bołszowce


Fredro Palace in Beńkowa Wisznia


Bocheński Palace in Ponikwa


Juliusz Bielski Palace in Rychcice


Archiepiscopal Palace in Obroszyn


Pierściński Palace in Pustomyty


Płotycz Palace


Brunicki Palace in Lubień Wielki


Gołuchowski Palace in Łowczyce


Plater-Zyberek Palace in Moszków


Stefan Badeni Palace in Koropiec


Jaroszyński Palace in Malczyce


Lanckoroński Palace in Rozdół


Sisters of Providence Palace in Lackie


Skarbek-Jabłonowski Palace in Bursztyn


Koniecpolski Castle in Podhorce


Świrz Castle


Olesko Castle (birthplace of two Polish kings Jan III Sobieski and Michał Korybut Wiśniowiecki)


Julian Brunicki Palace in Podhorce
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Old November 18th, 2012, 06:09 PM   #208
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I have to say Poland looked like quite a happening place before the war. So normal and cosmopolitan (at that time). And then in 6 short years, the progression of the country stopped completely and the culture was almost wiped out. It's a lot to take in if you think about it. If history played out differently or the Americans and British didn't bomb Germany to pieces to suppress their war machine, there literally might not be a Poland today.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 06:21 PM   #209
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you're right, it looks like a different culture and mentality ruled this land pre-war, communism wiped out any sense of order, normalcy or of course work ethic and before that the Soviets wiped out most of the elites that commandered the nation for 1000 years. you look at Poland now, although it has improved by leaps and bounds, looks like a different place inhabited by a people with much less self-respect and class I think sometimes. but then others will say POland pre-war was divided and it some ways repressive and communism educated and civilized a much wider cross-section of Polsih society.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present

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Old November 18th, 2012, 09:04 PM   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
looks like a different place inhabited by a people with much less self-respect and class I think sometimes.
I know exactly what you mean, especially with the under 30 crowd.
I think these issues will balance out naturally over time.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 10:11 PM   #211
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Quote:
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the Soviets wiped out most of the elites that commandered the nation for 1000 years
Of course, they were not alone. As you probably know, one of the main goals of Nazi Germany was elimination of Polish intelligentsia as well.

Intelligenzaktion
German AB-Aktion operation in Poland
Ponary massacre

Both, Russians and Germans (with some help from other nations) did a "great job". Second Polish Republic was on the 5-6th place in overall number of patents/inventions in Europe. And today...Poland is on the 19th place in EU (please see below).

http://i.wp.pl/a/f/jpeg/30159/patenty_infografika.jpeg

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Old November 19th, 2012, 12:30 AM   #212
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...yes, and we are still recovering sadly while many of the intelligentsia continue to leave. tragic and sad that now Poles are unwittingly undermining their country's future by leaving in droves.

and a brighter note, most of what we see in pre-war Poznan is still there and much damage was relatively easier to rebuild. Gdansk and Warsaw still need some time.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 12:48 AM   #213
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Yes, in comparison with other large Polish cities, Poznan wasn't so badly destroyed. The WW2 left "just" over half (90% in the city center) of Poznan severely damaged by artillery fire and the effects of infantry combat in the city blocks.

Poznan in 1945 and 1965: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...36&postcount=1

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Old November 19th, 2012, 01:16 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
Of course, they were not alone. As you probably know, one of the main goals of Nazi Germany was elimination of Polish intelligentsia as well.

Intelligenzaktion
German AB-Aktion operation in Poland
Ponary massacre

Both, Russians and Germans (with some help from other nations) did a "great job". Second Polish Republic was on the 5-6th place in overall number of patents/inventions in Europe. And today...Poland is on the 19th place in EU (please see below).

http://i.wp.pl/a/f/jpeg/30159/patenty_infografika.jpeg
I wouldn't take lists like this too seriously. They're compiled mostly for vanity purposes. It's about how a society utilizes it's resources. In this I think Poland is one of the best. Since the war, many new technologies were invented in the west. So why re-invent things when you simply need to modify them. In Europe, I think Poland has done the best job in rebuilding its core cities. It has to be studied
Russia is one of the leaders in space exploration. But what about their roads?
Canada, in the modern industrialized world, has the longest wait times to see a medical specialist (with a 1 tier medical system). I believe Poland has a private sector now and the wait times much shorter.
See what I mean?
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Old November 19th, 2012, 07:21 AM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post


Yes, in comparison with other large Polish cities, Poznan wasn't so badly destroyed. The WW2 left "just" over half (90% in the city center) of Poznan severely damaged by artillery fire and the effects of infantry combat in the city blocks.

Poznan in 1945 and 1965: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...36&postcount=1
thanks for taking the time to get that link for me. part of my family was resettled in Poznan postwar from east and they were surprised, how outside the core, the city managed to survive the war. ideal it wasn't of course but within 5 years it was a real city again whereas Warsaw is still being reconstructed. The character of Poznan didn't change that dramatically from the interbellum it seems.
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Old November 19th, 2012, 11:59 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rychlik
If history played out differently or the Americans and British didn't bomb Germany to pieces to suppress their war machine, there literally might not be a Poland today.
The role of the Western Allies in suppressing the German war machine was secondary. It was the Red Army that broke the Nazi neck.

Wikipedia:

Quote:
Main article: German casualties in World War II

According to Frank Biess,

German casualties took a sudden jump with the defeat of the Sixth Army at Stalingrad in January 1943, when 180,310 soldiers were killed in one month. Among the 5.3 million Wehrmacht casualties during the Second World War, more than 80 percent died during the last two years of the war. Approximately three-quarters of these losses occurred on the Eastern front (2.7 million) and during the final stages of the war between January and May 1945 (1.2 million).[9]

Jeffrey Herf wrote that:

Whereas German deaths between 1941 and 1943 on the western front had not exceeded 3 percent of the total from all fronts, in 1944 the figure jumped to about 14 percent.
Yet even in the months following D-day, about 68.5 percent of all German battlefield deaths occurred on the eastern front, as a Soviet blitzkrieg in response devastated the retreating Wehrmacht.[10]
Now just a word about inter-war Poland:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rychlik
I have to say Poland looked like quite a happening place before the war. So normal and cosmopolitan (at that time).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1
you're right, it looks like a different culture and mentality ruled this land pre-war, communism wiped out any sense of order, normalcy or of course work ethic and before that the Soviets wiped out most of the elites that commandered the nation for 1000 years. you look at Poland now, although it has improved by leaps and bounds, looks like a different place inhabited by a people with much less self-respect and class I think sometimes.
Typical for many Poles: in their judgement, always balancing between extremes. In communist times, the official viewpoint was that the inter-war Poland was a disaster. Now, the new version is that it was all roses.

Both versions are untrue.

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Old November 19th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #217
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you are right Varsben, Poles do like to dramatize and sensationalize minor things. When someone sprays grafitti on a building in Poland the media calls it devastation, always find it troubling the inflammatory language used that makes events appear worse than they are. as much as we like to romanticize about the past, tremendous progress has been made in the post war years on many fronts. although the ruling class was wiped out, most left children behind instilled with the same values who could carry on eventually if the communist system were not in place. interwar Poland did however look better in picture
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Old November 20th, 2012, 07:52 PM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
you are right Varsben, Poles do like to dramatize and sensationalize minor things. When someone sprays grafitti on a building in Poland the media calls it devastation, always find it troubling the inflammatory language used that makes events appear worse than they are. as much as we like to romanticize about the past, tremendous progress has been made in the post war years on many fronts. although the ruling class was wiped out, most left children behind instilled with the same values who could carry on eventually if the communist system were not in place. interwar Poland did however look better in picture
I call it the same

http://sphotos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...25313174_n.jpg
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Old November 25th, 2012, 03:04 AM   #219
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image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bazylek/
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Old November 25th, 2012, 11:29 AM   #220
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Ahh, beautiful Krakow...
The only large city in Poland that looks better today, than before WW2. Maybe just a few minor things which needs improvement:
- wall advertisements should be banned
- I would love to see more trees and well looked after parks
- less cars, more public spaces
- Berlinka collection should be shown at museum (otherwise politicians will soon give away all artworks )

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