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Old October 28th, 2013, 05:21 PM   #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
http://books.google.co.uk/books/abou...AJ&redir_esc=y
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radimichs
I've changed my post because the area inhabited by Radimichs wasn't part of pre-war Poland, but Soviet Union.

R1a-M458

Even after the WW2 expulsions we can still trace our brothers and sisters in Wilenszczyzna, some parts of Belarus and West Ukraine...

What the....
R1a shows I-E "relationship" with Finic-Uralic Non-IE N1C1(N3), which are common (and dominating) only in LT/LV/EST/Finland/Sweden. Not with Poles. That "relationship" was thousands years ago when I.E speaking people came to baltic lands which were inhabitant by Finns (Baltic-Finns)...
One significant and recently found feature - Lwb or "batic tribal marker". The frequency of the uncommon LWb gene was high in the Balts, around 6% among Latvians and Lithuanians, 1% in Gotland, very low among the other western Europeans (0-0.1%) and apparently absent in Asiatic and African populations. It explains some physical feature ( a large body/ high forehead/ large cheek bones etc.), or i.e. why in X-XV cent. lithuanians were 175 cm or higher while other nations (knights of Teutonic order wrote about it, by the way...) weren't back then and why the present population of LT are among highest people in Europe.
One of the most highest frequency of this uncommon/unique LWb gene is in - paradoxically -....as You say, in Wilenszczyzna (6.6%)


N1C1 - http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ection=results
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Old October 28th, 2013, 07:53 PM   #562
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Beautiful pics and heritage, but as I see this thread goes again into nationalistic bull..it.
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>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA



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Old October 28th, 2013, 09:17 PM   #563
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Old October 28th, 2013, 10:25 PM   #564
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Lwów, now Ukraine






Three coat of arms from the 17th century (City Arsenal)


































Lwów from the air - link

Tourist attractions in Lwów - link
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Old October 28th, 2013, 11:27 PM   #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL View Post
I agree, the nationalistic bull..it is reserved for Lietuviai.
Of course, only Lithuanians are nationalists who disagree with you, but as I see there are also and some Poles who maybe become "Lithuanians"?
You added info about ancient people who somehow could be considered as current Poles is absolute nonsense, I think you know it.


As you, so I
..

From your thinking series, as we see, half of current Poland is former Baltic lands.


One of famous archaeologist article:
http://www.vaidilute.com/books/gimbu...mbutas-01.html

Quote:
Old Prussian river and place names, although strongly Germanicized, cover the whole area between the Vistula and
Nemunas Rivers.4 Some names presumed to be Baltic are found even west of the Vistula, in eastern Pomerania.5 From the archaeological viewpoint there is absolutely no doubt that before the appearance of the Goths in the lower Vistula area and in eastern Pomerania in the first century B.C. these lands belonged to the direct ancestors of the Prussians. In the Bronze Age, before expansion of the central European Lusatian (Lausitz) culture around 1200 B.C., the western Balts seem to have covered the whole of Pomerania to the lower Oder, and what is now eastern Poland to the Bug and upper Pripet basins in the south, since we find here the same culture that was wide-spread in the ancient Prussian lands. The southern extent of the Prussians along the River Bug, a tributary of the Vistula, is indicated by the Prussian river names.6 The archaeological finds show that present Podlasie in eastern Poland and Polesie in western Byelo-Russia belonged to the Baltic Sudovians until the beginning of history. Only after the long wars with the Russians and Poles during the eleventh-twelfth centuries A.D. did the southern limits of the Sudovian tribe fall back to the River Narew line, and in the thirteenth century they even retreated as far north as the Ostrówka (Osterode)–Olsztyn (Allenstein) line.7
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>> MY PHOTO THREAD ABOUT LITHUANIA
>>MY PHOTOS FROM KLAIPĖDA (MEMEL)
>>> OLD LITHUANIA




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Old October 29th, 2013, 12:17 PM   #566
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Stanisławów (the city was founded by Polish nobleman Andrzej Potocki in 1662 as a private fortress), now Ukraine


Roman Catholic Church (members of the Potocki family were buried here)






Old Square with modern City Hall (previous one destroyed in WW1)




Roman Catholic monastery in Sokal (built in 1604-1619, rebuilt after WW1), now Ukraine...

After WW1




In the 1930s


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Old October 29th, 2013, 02:28 PM   #567
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What's the point in discussing the geographical distribution in tribes around AD 800, anyway? What's the point in putting - into thread about Second Polish Republic 1918-39 - information about early Baltic, early Slavic, Vandal, Celtic or Goths, who once lived in these area, but whose material legacy is reduced into some antient burial sites?
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Old October 29th, 2013, 02:50 PM   #568
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Mruczek, could you please give it a break here (for a while at least )? Unlike in many other threads you are not bringing any/much good extinguishing flames with gasoline. Can we agree that this is picture thread with some comments to them from time to time? Please
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Old October 29th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #569
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Late Gothic with elements of Renaissance Roman Catholic church in Rohatyn (founded in 1533, renovated in 1936), now Ukraine


Tomb of Rafał (from the early 16th century, Leliwa coat of arms) and commemorative plaque with coat of arms of Jan Wysocki and Barbara Kalinowska, inscriptions in Polish (1585)


Visitez la Pologne (travel guide in French)

Visitate la Polonia (travel guide in Italian)
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Old October 29th, 2013, 09:55 PM   #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Vito KurDeBalanz View Post
Mruczek, could you please give it a break here (for a while at least )? Unlike in many other threads you are not bringing any/much good extinguishing flames with gasoline. Can we agree that this is picture thread with some comments to them from time to time? Please
That's precisely what I am asking everyone: to stop discussing "who does territory X belonged to 12 centuries ago" and concentrate on pics
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Z archiwum Mruczka:
Buk Miłosław Szamotuły
Barcelona Budapeszt Grodno Kowno Madryt Moskwa Ukraina

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Old October 30th, 2013, 01:22 AM   #571
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Veterans of the January Uprising














There were over 3500 veterans of the January Uprising living in a free Poland. Special uniforms were designed for them, they were granted with a number of privileges and treated with special care.
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Old October 31st, 2013, 06:35 PM   #572
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Morszyn, now Ukraine








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Old November 1st, 2013, 01:01 PM   #573
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In addition to the post #68, two more photos from Kuty (Polish-Romanian border), now Ukraine




Tarnopol, now Ukraine


Druskieniki, now Lithuania






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Old November 3rd, 2013, 05:34 PM   #574
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Old November 4th, 2013, 05:59 PM   #575
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Poznaj piękno Polski (travel guide in Polish)
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Old November 5th, 2013, 01:13 PM   #576
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Quote:
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Latin Cathedral in Lwow - one of the oldest Roman Catholic churches in eastern Poland (it witnessed many significant events and was visited by several Polish kings, most notably John II Casimir, who in the Cathedral entrusted the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth under the care of the Blessed Virgin in what came to known as the Lwów Oath)




Tomb of Mikołaj Herburt Odnowski (Mikołaj Odnowski's sister was mother of famous Polish poet and prose writer, Mikołaj Rej), 1555


Tomb of Baltazar Bzowski, 1574


Tomb of Jan Tarnowski, 1669


Chapel of the Kampian family


Chapel of the Boim family


In addition to the post above...

Tomb of Stanisław Żółkiewski, 1588; Epitaph of Piotr Milewski (1634) and Piotr Milewski the Younger (1641)


Renaissance tomb of Roman Catholic archbishop from the 17th century
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Old November 7th, 2013, 11:17 AM   #577
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A few tombs and epitaphs from St. John's Archcathedral in Warsaw...

Renaissance tomb of Wolski brothers (1568) and Remigiusz Zaleski (1648)


Epitapth of Jan Wilk Kaleński (16th century) and Paweł Zembrzuski (1633)


* All were destroyed during WW2
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Old November 7th, 2013, 12:24 PM   #578
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A few tombs from Wilno...

Stanisław Radziwiłł (1599, tomb from ca. 1620), Lew Sapieha + Dorota Firlej + Elżbieta Radziwiłł (1633) and Piotr Wiesiołowski (1634)


Teodora Krystyna Countess Tarnowska (1652) and Aleksander Korwin Gosiewski (1662; * afaik his beautiful tomb was destroyed by Russians in the 19th century )


Coffins with the remains of King of Poland Alexander Jagiellon (1506), Queen of Poland Elżbieta Habsburżanka (1545) and Queen of Poland Barbara Radziwiłł (1551) + urn with heart of King of Poland Władysław IV Vasa (1648)
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Old November 9th, 2013, 06:48 PM   #579
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Old November 9th, 2013, 07:56 PM   #580
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I thought this was worth a mention.


http://www.amazon.com/Red-runs-Vistu...ns+the+vistula

A British POW in German hands ends up in German-occupied Poland, escapes, becomes a member of the AK.

-Jeffery provides a vivid account of countless German cruelties against Poles and comments: "The food ration for Poles was less than that for British prisoners of war. The black market, of absolute necessity to sustain life, was periodically viciously repressed." (p. 67). "Since my arriving in the former Polish Corridor in 1940 as a German prisoner of war, my mind had harboured a growing conviction that the Nazis were eventually bent on meting out the same liquidation programme to the Polish people as were evident to the Jews wherever they found them." (p. 112)

-Much of what happened during the German occupation will never be known, prompting Jeffery to conclude: "Since the war, opinions have been voiced that insufficient help to the Jews was forthcoming from the Poles during the Nazi occupation and especially during the ghetto revolt...The elements who have invented or distorted the history of those times and those two peoples to suit their personal objectives, contribute nothing of which the human race can be proud." (p. 284)

-Jeffery puts the Warsaw Uprising in perspective: "Only the sparsest reference has ever been made in the Western news media, to the vast number of Polish civilians who perished in the Warsaw Uprising as a result of Soviet manipulation. Japanese casualties sustained during the atomic bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were far less." (p. 246)

-The author's countrymen come in for scathing criticism: "Britons in both high and low places were more pro-Soviet than seemed necessary to sustain what was a purely military alliance." (p. 247). "The Robin Hood aura bestowed by the media in some reports of Philby's despicable career is sickening as well as suspicious." (p. 253). "Between Russian communists on one hand and a proportion of the British establishment on the other, it is surprising that I have remained such a patriotic Briton considering the disgust I feel." (p. 293)

-As for the Poles whom he came to know so well, Jeffery said: "People of more matchless moral and physical courage than the Poles have never existed..." (p. 43). "A major inspiration to produce this book has been to pay homage to the Polish people and especially to their magnificent unsung efforts during the years of Nazi occupation." (p. 259) "To contemplate the political destruction of people like the Poles, the most loyal Allies in the fight against the Nazis, was heartbreaking." (p. 299)


I wasn't sure where to share this, so hopefully it fits here. If you're into WW2 history, this could be a worth while book.
http://www.amazon.com/Red-runs-Vistu...ns+the+vistula
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