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Old October 3rd, 2012, 06:00 PM   #41
Urbanista1
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shame such an ancient ciy as Kalisz was destroyed even in WWI, what strategic purpose would that serve. Bydgoszcz is very impressive, wonder how much of it survives today. overall this thread is one of the best I've seen in a while, so many never before seen photos. thanks
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 06:27 PM   #42
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Interwar Poland is mainly rememberred today for its swift fall to German and Soviet invasions in 1939. but in many fields it was a leading country then, sometimes being behind only great powers of that time.

For example, it was the 10th most populous independent state after China, USSR, USA, Japan, Germany, UK, Italy, France and Brazil.

It was the 6th country to introduce television, after USA, UK, Germany, France and Soviet Union.

It produced most of its own weaponry including tanks, fighter and bomber planes. Polish warplanes were also exported to Romania, Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 06:45 PM   #43
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Second Polish Republic had also really significant input in the world science...http://www.paccpnw.org/polish-contri...world-science/
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 09:14 PM   #44
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Fantastic! That's another spectacular resort back then, along with Zaleszczyki.
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 09:20 PM   #45
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Katowice





























M.Studencki car dealer in Katowice


M.Studencki garage in Katowice












































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Old October 3rd, 2012, 11:15 PM   #46
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Lublin















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Old October 3rd, 2012, 11:22 PM   #47
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Lublin [cont.]
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Old October 3rd, 2012, 11:45 PM   #48
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incredible modernism in Katowice. love it
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Old October 4th, 2012, 12:18 AM   #49
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what Poland accomplished in the interwar period of 20 years was phenomenal, almost as spectacular as what has been accomplished in the 23 years since fall of communism and this time it was so much harder because of the infrastructural arrears caused by 50 yrs of commie neglect and the need to rebuild so much (still hasn't been finished. hope this global financial crisis ends soon so that all nations of Europe can get back on the path of development and building hope for the next generation.

btw, i only visited Katowice once in my life in 1994 and like Wroclaw I couldn't see anything except soot-covered walls. Does anyone know how many historic tenement houses Katowice has in relations to other Polish cities. What I see here is impressive.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 01:56 AM   #50
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what Poland accomplished in the interwar period of 20 years was phenomenal, almost as spectacular as what has been accomplished in the 23 years since fall of communism and this time it was so much harder because of the infrastructural arrears caused by 50 yrs of commie neglect and the need to rebuild so much (still hasn't been finished. hope this global financial crisis ends soon so that all nations of Europe can get back on the path of development and building hope for the next generation.
Urbanista1, Poland during the interwar period accomplished much more in many areas than in the last 23 years. Probably you don't know that situation of Poland after the WW1 was really difficult:
"Compared to France, where only northeastern provinces were devastated, the Great War resulted in widespread destruction of almost whole territory of the Second Polish Republic. In 1914 - 1921, almost two million buildings were destroyed, together with 56% of rolling stock, 64% of rail stations, 390 larger and 2019 smaller bridges. Loses of Polish industry were estimated at 1 billion 800 million zlotys, four and half million hectares of land were left uncultivated, 4 million head of cattle were killed, 3 million people were forced to leave their homes, 130 million cubic meters of timber were taken out of Poland."

Achievements of Second Polish Republic:
- number of scientists, inventors (in today's Poland I can mostly see copy/paste syndrome, no creativity whatsoever)
- Polish companies producing cars, trains, planes, etc. (is there any large Polish car manufacturer today?)
- demographics (Second Polish Republic population was growing very rapidly from 27 mln in 1921 to 35 mln in 1938...and what I see today, Poles are trying to escape from Poland to UK, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, and so on...btw, population of Poland didn't change at all in the last 23 years)
- amazing economic projects such as Gdynia (which became the largest Baltic port in around 10 years!...and today we have Primorsk, St.Petersburg, Tallinn, Klaipeda, Riga) or Central Industrial Region (I didn't see anything similar in today's Poland)
- elites, nobles, role models (missing in today's Poland)

Of course, I'm not underestimating last 23 years, but anyway the jump should've been more noticeable.

PS. Polish GDP in 1938 was only lower than German, Russian, British, French and Italian.

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Old October 4th, 2012, 01:08 PM   #51
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Old October 4th, 2012, 01:15 PM   #52
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Nice thread, love it, keep it up!!!

The II. Republic is quiet fascinating, it is only 70-80 years ago, but it seems to me like a totally different country.

It is not that easy to say that "the II. Republic was better than the III. Republic because they build Gdynia, airplanes, COP and so on", the situation is much more complicated and it is very hard to compare those completly different countrys.

Even if the I.WW was devastating, the II. WW was a pure catastrophy plus 50 years of communism.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 02:17 PM   #53
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del

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Old October 4th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #54
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in terms of urban planning the II Republic was obviously much better. Gdynia, large parts of Katowice, Krakow. even in Warsaw the legacy of that era is still clearly visible. by contrast, you couldn't name one whole city district sensibly planned and built after 1989. there are quite a lot good renovations, though.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 03:47 PM   #55
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Quote:
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PS. Polish GDP in 1938 was only lower than German, Russian, British, French and Italian.
In Europe you mean. I tried to find some data about world GDP rankings but didn't find any. I suppose Poland was surpassed by USA, Japan and China as well, and possibly by Brazil and Canada too. And India, if you count colonies as well. That would give it 9th - 12th place in the world, comparable to Russia, Canada, India or Spain today.

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- demographics (Second Polish Republic population was growing very rapidly from 27 mln in 1921 to 35 mln in 1938...and what I see today, Poles are trying to escape from Poland to UK, Germany, Netherlands, Norway, and so on...btw, population of Poland didn't change at all in the last 23 years)
Poles were emigrating from Poland then as well, perhaps even in greater numbers than now, but it was offset by high natural growth.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 04:10 PM   #56
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"In Europe you mean."

Of course.
BTW, today's Poland in terms of economy in Europe is behind Spain, Turkey and if we'll take nominal GDP into consideration Polish gross domestic product is even lower than Dutch, Swiss as well as Swedish.

"That would give it 9th - 12th place in the world"

Yes, Second Polish Republic was among 10 largest economies in the world.

http://www.mnstarfire.com/ww2/histor...c/GDP1938.html

"Poles were emigrating from Poland then as well, perhaps even in greater numbers than now, but it was offset by high natural growth."

I'm not saying they weren't emigrating back then (mostly to USA or Germany, however not in such a huge numbers). Also, there was place and bright future for educated people in Second Polish Republic. Now, there is a reverse process, Poland is losing elite, best students, scientists, etc...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...and_technology

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Old October 4th, 2012, 04:31 PM   #57
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Now, there is a reverse process, Poland is losing elite, best students, scientists, etc...
Most of them are rather uneducated physical workers and such, rather "muscle" than brain-drain.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 04:57 PM   #58
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Most of them are rather uneducated physical workers and such, rather "muscle" than brain-drain.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...redirect=false
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Old October 4th, 2012, 06:01 PM   #59
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Most of them are rather uneducated physical workers and such, rather "muscle" than brain-drain.
yes, I've read this in a number of places and it may be the true overall but a lot of educated have gone to the UK...and then again we are getting educated people from all over the world to fill the voids left. Incomes for talented people of all stripe are very comparable to the best places in the world, Warsaw average incomes are among highest in Europe as in other major cities. Polish youth have many opportunities in Poland's large cities with some of the lowest unemployment in Europe, but they don't want to stay in Poland is the problem. my cousin was looking for work in Germany and Uk because he said he couldn't find work in Poland, so I ended up finding him a good job in Poland by making several phone calls from Canada . He didn't bother following up, all he had to do was call the recruiter and he had a good job. In the end he didn't work, preferring to complain how bad it is....oops, sorry, he actually did just get a job in Poznan

Anyway, I think interwar Poland was a much more hopeful and dynamic place, much better off relative to the world. it was no doubt easier to build then, now the legal system holds up a lot of development, eco-terrorists like ClientEarth are actively trying to block development and so on.

unfortunately, this country has been destroyed 3 times (2 wars and communism) in the last 100 years and in last war it was virtually annihilated with almost all its elites gone and that's too much to recover from. the job of rebuilding Poland after last war and communist ruination was bigger task than post WWI.

I still have to believe that Poland has a bright future, but unfortnately this young generation instead of building Poland will no doubt destroy it by leaving in massive numbers - although not sure where they will find work, its worse everywhere in Europe pretty much and a recession is lingering all over the world. In Canada it's worse than I have ever seen it, the economy hasn't produced any significant net job growth in years despite the propaganda. but the attitude is anywhere but Poland, it seems....we'll see.
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Last edited by Urbanista1; October 4th, 2012 at 06:57 PM.
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Old October 4th, 2012, 06:02 PM   #60
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"by contrast, you couldn't name one whole city district sensibly planned and built after 1989"

Gatsby, I agree with you.

"Warsaw average incomes are among highest in Europe as in other major cities"

Are they? In my opinion, 1500 EUR net per month is really below average. In a small "village" () like Belfast, people are usually earning more.

"the job of rebuilding Poland after last war and communist ruination was bigger task than post WWI."

AFAIR, we were comparing Second Polish Republic (1918-1939) with Poland (1989-2012).

"Anyway, I think interwar Poland was a much more hopeful and dynamic place, much better off relative to the world. it was no doubt easier to build then, now the legal system holds up a lot of development"
"in last war it was virtually annihilated with almost all its elites"
"I still (have to) believe that Poland has a bright future"


Agree

"although not sure where they will find work, its worse everywhere in Europe pretty much and a recession is lingering all over the world"

bs I'm sure they'll find a job, if they are educated and are willing to work.

Last edited by RS_UK-PL; October 4th, 2012 at 06:38 PM.
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