Poland in the Interbellum (1918-39)

[Urbanista1]

Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...redirect=false

there was an article in GW that said that most firms are looking for working even though unemployment is high. there are almost half million unfilled jobs in Poland. anyone who wants to get experience and has a technical engineering background can easily find work anywhere in Poland.

[Urbanista1]

Originally Posted by Gatsby

in terms of urban planning the II Republic was obviously much better. Gdynia, large parts of Katowice, Krakow. even in Warsaw the legacy of that era is still clearly visible. by contrast, you couldn't name one whole city district sensibly planned and built after 1989. there are quite a lot good renovations, though.

wilanow in Warsaw

[Gatsby]

Originally Posted by Urbanista1

wilanow in Warsaw

too little public space, contrary to the initial announcement, and pretty avarage architecture by european standards...but it's not that bad, either...

[RS_UK-PL]

Originally Posted by Urbanista1

there are almost half million unfilled jobs in Poland. anyone who wants to get experience and has a technical engineering background can easily find work anywhere in Poland.

And it's exactly the same everywhere else. Engineers, IT guys, etc. in Belfast can easily change jobs within just a few days. There's a gap in this field.
Companies in Poland are offering rather low wages (believe me, 5000 or even 7500 PLN net per month is not a good or even average salary by any EU standards) and poor working conditions. These companies are not trying to create the attractive market for the young, educated people.

[Urbanista1]

"Warsaw average incomes are among highest in Europe as in other major cities"

Are they? In my opinion, 1500 EUR net per month is really below average. In a small "village" () like Belfast, people are usually earning more.

Warsaw is at 125% the UE average now, other cities are lower. But we are talking Purchasing Power Parity. My cousin at 24 with a masters just got na job in Poznan at 4800 zloties, he and his girlfriend rent a 1 bedroom for 1500 zloties dowtown. In Toronto, average start salary is about $3000/month, whereas rent for 1 bedroom is $1500. Who's better off? Don;'t forget taxes in Canada (fed and provincial) are about 40-60%. Not sure what you mean by working conditions? - benefits, security, people are forced to stand while working ?

"the job of rebuilding Poland after last war and communist ruination was bigger task than post WWI."

AFAIR, we were comparing Second Polish Republic (1918-1939) with Poland (1989-2012).

what I'm saying is WWII and communism was much bigger setback, rebuilding a real economy with any real infrastructure works only started in 89 or really in latter case post 2004. Still impressive that Poland in last 8 yrs built (almost finished superstructure) new highway system, several new airports, stadiums, museums, filtration plants. pat on the back yes, but more needs to be done.

"although not sure where they will find work, its worse everywhere in Europe pretty much and a recession is lingering all over the world"

bs I'm sure they'll find a job, if they are educated and are willing to work.[/QUOTE]

In Canada we just had 200 applications for 1 good summer job. The phenomenon we see everywhere in western world (almost) is good full-time jobs being replaced with low paying part-time. I personally know several very experienced people in 40's who can't find work in Toronto, and Canada overall is doing much better than UK.

By the same token, if they are willing to work, young Poles with skills can find work in Poland too. Yes, conditions aren't as good maybe, but no where are you going to find good paying jobs for life anymore as in the big spending days of socialism...it's just not cool to be in Poland.

anyway, I think most youing Poles like my cousin are looking for every excuse not to work in Poland or return...and you provide lots of reasons, anecdotally.

[RS_UK-PL]

Urbanista1, according to your posts situation in Canada is worrying. I'm not sure how much of it is true, but based on what you wrote I can assure you that job market in Belfast is much healthier and it is still quite easy to find a good job if you're qualified. Basic salary for IT junior guys (Linux, Python, SQL) starts from £26k which is around £1600 net/month (minus rent, you are left with let's say £1000-1100 every month). Senior IT earns between £40-55k. My older bro is working near Warsaw (Grodzisk Mazowiecki) and earns 3600 PLN net per month as qualified Manufacturing Engineer (he was studying at University of Technology in Gdansk), so not even half of what some chap in UK earns in his first or second job after studies.

[katsuma]

Originally Posted by RS_UK-PL

Stanislawow

http://img.audiovis.nac.gov.pl/PIC/PIC_1-U-5867.jpg

(...)

Believe it or not, I was thinking of that city as well...

But there's never enough of Stanisławów [], which today is called Ivano-Frankivsk (Ukraine), so below are a few more pics.
______

A march or parade during national holiday, May 1939



District court



One of the local banks (Kasa Skarbowa w Stanisławowie)



Sobieski Street



W. Krowicki's confectionery



Latin church



Armenian church & gate



Public hospital

[katsuma]

Photos of some towns, villages & other spots in the then Stanisławów Voivodeship.


_______________

Kuty (wikipedia.pl)





Opening of a rail bridge over River Czeremosz on the Polish-Romanian border, 1930


_____

Jaremcze (holiday resort on the River Prut)






_____

Horodnica (summer destination on the River Dniestr)


_____

Jamna (on the River Prut)


_____

Obertyn (Battle of Obertyn)

[katsuma]

Stanisławów Voivodeship [cont.]
_______

Bołszowce, manor house of Kornel Krzeczunowicz



Dołhe, manor house of Franciszek Smolka



Berezów, village house of a petty gentry family ("szlachta zagrodowa")



Hrebenów, villa "Helenówka"



Dytiatyn, St. Theresa's chapel



Jaremcze, wooden ornamented Orthodox church



Dora, elementary school



Kosów, postal "ambulance" with the staff of local post office



Hołosków, view on the village with an old oak in the foreground

[Gatsby]

Originally Posted by katsuma

Kuty (wikipedia.pl)

that's where in the night between September 17th and 18th the Polish Government crossed the border bridge on Dniestr escaping the German - Soviet invasion of 1939.

[katsuma]

Aye aye, sir.

(but the river down there is Czeremosz, I think)

[Urbanista1]

thanks for taking the effort to find these pics in archives, no small feat, but very edifying. this is a world I only heard about, images are very evocative of what it must have been like.

[Gatsby]

Originally Posted by katsuma

Aye aye, sir.

(but the river down there is Czeremosz, I think)

true, I mixed it up with Zaleszczyki

[RS_UK-PL]

Torun

[JohnnyMass]

Wonderful thread! Just adore the modernist buildings.

[rychlik]

Urbanista, I think things will balance out naturally. After all, why immigrate to a country that has nothing to offer you. For what? Just to be discriminated against? To work in a bar in the UK? What will you do when you get older?
I do admit that quite a lot of younger people think it's better to migrate out of the country than go to your biggest cities and try and find work.

[Urbanista1]

rychlik, you are right, I think they see it as an adventure and something different to a young person is automatically so much better. I don't get it, but at least my family are all back in Poland now from UK and Ireland and hopefully it will stay that way, stable. generations have toiled to get this far, and to now throw it away in one generation over a few more euros in the bank. luckily some are coming back and immigrants have come to fill the voids in many places....Poland will become more like prewar Poland, more diverse in the next 10 years.

anyone got pics that show Poland's diversity in interbellum?

[Varsben]

Originally Posted by Urbanista1

Poland will become more like prewar Poland, more diverse in the next 10 years.

What do you mean exactly?

[RS_UK-PL]

Brzesc nad Bugiem

[RS_UK-PL]

Population Density in Second Polish Republic



Red - most populated areas (over 200 people per km2)
Light Red - between 100-200 people per km2
Yellow - between 50-100 people per km2
Green - between 25-50 people per km2
Blue - below 25 people per km2 (undeveloped areas)

BTW, http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...oivodships.png

Industry and Communications in Second Polish Republic



Largest cities in early 1939

1. Warsaw – 1,289,000
2. Lodz – 672,000
3. Lwow – 318,000 (today's Ukraine)
4. Poznan – 272,000
5. Krakow – 259,000
6. Wilno – 209,000 (today's Lithuania)
7. Bydgoszcz – 141,000
8. Czestochowa – 138,000
9. Katowice – 134,000
10. Sosnowiec – 130,000
11. Lublin – 122,000
12. Gdynia – 120,000
13. Chorzow – 110,000
14. Bialystok – 107,000

Illiteracy in the Second Polish Republic


In 1919 Polish government introduced compulsory education for all children aged 7 to 14, in an effort to limit illiteracy, which was widespread especially in eastern Poland, after years of Russian rule. By 1939, 90% of children attended school. In 1921, 33% of citizens of Poland was illiterate, and by 1931, illiteracy level dropped to 23% overall (27% in the countryside).

Polesie Voivodeship - 48.4% (the highest in Poland and well above national average)


Wolyn Voivodeship - 47.8% (the Russian Empire maintained only 14 secondary schools, under the restored Polish republic, the numer of public schools greatly increased to 1,934 by 1938)


It seems that central and south parts of Poland were most developed (Galicia, areas surrounding Krakow and Lodz).