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Old January 16th, 2015, 12:29 AM   #881
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That's true . I visited it last year and it is a magnificent building
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Old January 16th, 2015, 05:07 PM   #882
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all of Lodz is quite magnificent and with almost completely intact pre war historic building stock, sadly except for the synagogues.
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Warsaw Post-War Reconstruction to Present
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Old January 16th, 2015, 10:52 PM   #883
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As I said, Old Town was mostly destroyed:




And commies demolished some buildings for wider streets, just like in the USA:


Maps by me based on Modgik
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Old January 17th, 2015, 12:07 AM   #884
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the old town where the Nazis created the Jewish ghetto was indeed destroyed and now there is a huge park there, but what I mean is that compared to most cities in Poland and even Europe Lodz didn't suffer massive damage, maybe 10% at most, correct me if I'm wrong dexter2? commies did most of the damage it looks like.
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Old January 17th, 2015, 12:09 AM   #885
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Old January 17th, 2015, 12:13 AM   #886
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Old January 17th, 2015, 03:42 AM   #887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanista1 View Post
the old town where the Nazis created the Jewish ghetto was indeed destroyed and now there is a huge park there, but what I mean is that compared to most cities in Poland and even Europe Lodz didn't suffer massive damage, maybe 10% at most, correct me if I'm wrong dexter2? commies did most of the damage it looks like.
No correction needed, that's exactly right.
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Old January 19th, 2015, 01:16 PM   #888
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Armored divisions
Nice pics, but Poland didn't have any armoured divisions before WWII. The largest tank units were batallions.

The first armoured division in the history of Polish Army was created in February 1942. In Scotland

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As you can see this part of town looks different now, as it was demolished by germans and then russians during and after WW2 and turned into park.
IMHO demolition of the so-called "Old Town" in Łódź was the best thing Nazis could do. And establishing the park on the spot of the "Old Town" after the war was one of the cleverest decisions made in history of Łódź
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Old January 19th, 2015, 06:46 PM   #889
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IMHO demolition of the so-called "Old Town" in Łódź was the best thing Nazis could do. And establishing the park on the spot of the "Old Town" after the war was one of the cleverest decisions made in history of Łódź
Why so?
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Old January 19th, 2015, 09:52 PM   #890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
IMHO demolition of the so-called "Old Town" in Łódź was the best thing Nazis could do. And establishing the park on the spot of the "Old Town" after the war was one of the cleverest decisions made in history of Łódź
First of all when you put that into perspective of the reason why it was demolished - that doesn't sound good.
This place was a ghetto during WW2 as you propably know.

I agree that this didn't turn out to be as bad as it could be in terms of present state of the city. But old town in Łódź wasn't that bad as some people think. Even tho none of the buildings were built before XIX century is till had some old-townish feel to it.





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Old January 21st, 2015, 05:07 PM   #891
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Quote:
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Why so?
Because it was slums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dexter2 View Post
First of all when you put that into perspective of the reason why it was demolished - that doesn't sound good.
To get rid of old, decapitalised, poor and rotten buildings.

Unfortunately I don't know, what were German's plans for the cleared area. But probably they also pondered about some green area. Nazi or not, the urbanism trends in 1940s Germany were pretty much the same as everywhere else.

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This place was a ghetto during WW2 as you propably know.
Which proves what I'm saying. Germans usually pick the areas with the worst, decapitalised buildings and then cramped Jews in it. Even today the areas of former Jewish ghettos are usually in appalling condition.

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I agree that this didn't turn out to be as bad as it could be in terms of present state of the city. But old town in Łódź wasn't that bad as some people think. Even tho none of the buildings were built before XIX century is till had some old-townish feel to it.
Hę? Łódź is the largest reservoir of rent houses in Poland. I mean: there is Łódź, then nothing comparable, then nothing comparable again. Then Wrocław perhaps.

Old-townish feel is the last thing Łódź requires, because it has plenty of it anyway.

On the other hand, nice green areas are something Łódź is lacking (in the 19th century centre, I mean). Also nice "Mariensztat-like" residential areas are also something which enriches Łódź - very nice that the area of the Old Town Square was rebuilt in such fashion.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 11:44 PM   #892
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Quote:
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To get rid of old, decapitalised, poor and rotten buildings.
Wow, I never knew you are one of those 'wyburzyć rudery' guys. I remind you that you would have to get rid of half of the city to fulfill this statement.
Łódź wasn't like Poznań - full of solid german buildings for middle class and you propably know that very well.
And they demolished this part of the city because they wanted to seperate ghetto from city centre, not because it was 'rotten'.
Look at that:






Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
Unfortunately I don't know, what were German's plans for the cleared area. But probably they also pondered about some green area. Nazi or not, the urbanism trends in 1940s Germany were pretty much the same as everywhere else.
That doesn't matter actually.

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Which proves what I'm saying. Germans usually pick the areas with the worst, decapitalised buildings and then cramped Jews in it. Even today the areas of former Jewish ghettos are usually in appalling condition.
It doesn't prove anything. Partly because I was partially wrong about this area in previous posts - germans demolished only some buildings in the old town (which was at the same time ghetto), they got rid of the area between it and 'aryan' part of the city.
You can clearly see that on this map I posted before:



And they turnd old town into ghetto because before war it was almost exclusively Jewish district. That's all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
Hę? Łódź is the largest reservoir of rent houses in Poland. I mean: there is Łódź, then nothing comparable, then nothing comparable again. Then Wrocław perhaps.
And that is because population plummeted after 80's and because commies didn't do anything about old buildings to make them worth living in. On contrary - by doing nothing, they made it even worse.

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Old-townish feel is the last thing Łódź requires, because it has plenty of it anyway.
Where? XIX-century districts streets are too wide, too long and too regular to create that feel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mruczek View Post
On the other hand, nice green areas are something Łódź is lacking (in the 19th century centre, I mean). Also nice "Mariensztat-like" residential areas are also something which enriches Łódź - very nice that the area of the Old Town Square was rebuilt in such fashion.
Yeah. But on the other hand Old Town is now totally isolated from the city centre making it the modern ghetto. And this green area might be one of the reasons why.
It would be better if they had demolished old Bałuty part - this district was and is as bad as anything can be.

I agree that green areas is what this city needs, but you can create green city using other methods, for example making steets and yards green. It worked in Barcelona, Odessa and other similar cities.


There are much worse things that happend to this city than that park, It propably is for the best. But at the same time it is still a loss. Something like Haussmann's plan. Made Paris a nicer place to live in (and drive in ) but you still can pity old, wooden houses and narrow streets.
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Last edited by dexter2; January 21st, 2015 at 11:56 PM.
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Old January 21st, 2015, 11:52 PM   #893
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Old January 22nd, 2015, 12:15 AM   #894
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Old Town market square before:




after:




Other comparisons:





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Old January 23rd, 2015, 11:18 PM   #895
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Krakow







1928



1930



1931



1932







1933





1934





1937









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Old January 23rd, 2015, 11:19 PM   #896
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Kazimierz Dolny

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Old January 28th, 2015, 07:24 PM   #897
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Police, border guard and prison guards























11 days before the war in 1939...

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Old January 28th, 2015, 07:28 PM   #898
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Old January 28th, 2015, 07:32 PM   #899
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Poznan





Rowne



1931







1939



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Old January 28th, 2015, 07:35 PM   #900
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1926



1933



1936







1937





1938



German delegation

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