South Florida East Coast Corridor

[CalleOchoGringo]

HOWEVER... I forgot to add...


I would be COMPLETELY AGAINST any light rail (or any transit system) that did not have it's OWN right of way. Not having right of way is a mortal sin in transit. This inability to zip past cars and having to sit in the same traffic jams as them, ENSURES that commuters have no real time incentive to take public transit vs their cars! Which is really the only incentive they have to use an alternate form of transit anyway (this is why bus commuting is rejected by most commuters and why it takes 3 hours to get across town in a bus). For this reason a lane needs to be dedicated and taken away from cars for this system. Or else it's all a big waste of money no matter how inexpensive the initial cost may be.

[CF221]

I agree.

[CF221]

I wish some kind of amendment or issue regarding transportation would have come up on the voting ballot :'( Is it that rare to see something like that in Miami? *This was my first time voting*

[spellbound]

Originally Posted by CF221

I wish some kind of amendment or issue regarding transportation would have come up on the voting ballot :'( Is it that rare to see something like that in Miami? *This was my first time voting*

I'd wish for the same but with the economy still wheezing (albeit improving) and people having been burned by that half-cent tax they passed years ago, I doubt it would have had much chance of success.

Needs to be revisited at some point, though, but in a transparent way that guarantees revenue won't be a shell game where it is transferred to other uses rather than what the public is being sold on.

[Paul305]

Originally Posted by spellbound

...people having been burned by that half-cent tax they passed years ago...

The half-cent tax has cost Miami-Dade residents an average of only 18 cents per day from 2002 to 2009 (i.e., a total of $1.18B split among 2.55M people over 7 years).

The people who think they were burnt by the tax probably haven't considered how important those 18 cents were.

That's just my two cents.

[spellbound]

Paul, I may not have been clear enough. Totally agreed it's not a big tax burden--I was speaking to the fact that the tax was never used as it was originally sold to voters (for expansion of the rail system) and has instead become a general maintenance fund.

[Paul305]

Yeah, the bait-and-switch is a classic Miami political move but I think the money was still put to good use even if it wasn't used as advertised.

What really bothers me is that we are paying $2.4B for Marlins Park but have more or less canceled the East-West Corridor for the Metrorail, which was projected to cost exactly $2.4B.

[dave8721]

Originally Posted by Paul305

Yeah, the bait-and-switch is a classic Miami political move but I think the money was still put to good use even if it wasn't used as advertised.

What really bothers me is that we are paying $2.4B for Marlins Park but have more or less canceled the East-West Corridor for the Metrorail, which was projected to cost exactly $2.4B.

The cost overruns at the new airport terminals? You guessed it $2.4B. Must be a magic number.

[CF221]

........... Well, things seem to be changing -albeit slowly- but changing nonetheless. Like the Herald said: "14th time's a charm," and the majority vote's decision to install term limits to our commisioners should at least make them work for their post. I am very happy with this accomplishment.

[CalleOchoGringo]

What Miami needs are some strong clauses in the law that bind the politicians hands on how they use certain funds. Like "X taxes to fund ONLY the development of new metrorail lines from Y to Z" or something like that. Explicit clauses that if broken allow for those funds to be disbursed back to the public in the form of tax rebates the next fiscal year.

Politics in this town are too crooked.

[Alien x]

Originally Posted by Paul305

Yeah, the bait-and-switch is a classic Miami political move but I think the money was still put to good use even if it wasn't used as advertised.

What really bothers me is that we are paying $2.4B for Marlins Park but have more or less canceled the East-West Corridor for the Metrorail, which was projected to cost exactly $2.4B.

The tax was not so much a bait-and-switch as false hope/wishful thinking tax. From the beginning they said that the tax by itself was not enough but was suppose be selling point for to attract federal funds which proved to be a pipe dream. On the other hand the tax provided revenue for operation of the existing system limited as it is, they did not have to worry about funds being cut by county budget short falls.

Looks the same but isn't. If you could have petition Tallahassee to change the law so that you could use the tourist tax for transportation projects you would still have to find $2B for the East-West Corridor Metrorail project. Because you are comparing 40 yrs of payments for stadium bonds (regardless how absurd the stadium funding is) to starting cost of the project (which in MD would end up costing like the airport terminal expansion).

[spellbound]

Mostly true, but I would add that the public was never really told that none of those extensions would become reality without federal matching funds. I think 99% of those voting yes on it honestly thought the local tax itself would be all that was needed.

There was a lot of intentional omission of the facts from those backing it, starting with Penelas. I don't know how the vote might have gone had people known the truth---but they deserve transparency.

[Alien x]

Originally Posted by spellbound

Mostly true, but I would add that the public was never really told that none of those extensions would become reality without federal matching funds. I think 99% of those voting yes on it honestly thought the local tax itself would be all that was needed.

There was a lot of intentional omission of the facts from those backing it, starting with Penelas. I don't know how the vote might have gone had people known the truth---but they deserve transparency.

They made it sound like if the tax passed that the federal funding was almost guaranteed, failing to mention that there where several other metro areas ahead of MD for those funds and that MD would have to wait several years before they could apply. Needless to say that by then the government priorities changed and before public transport became a priority MD descended into a new corruption scandal ending for the time being any chance for matching funds.

[theEmbarcadero]

Originally Posted by Paul305

Yeah, the bait-and-switch is a classic Miami political move but I think the money was still put to good use even if it wasn't used as advertised.

What really bothers me is that we are paying $2.4B for Marlins Park but have more or less canceled the East-West Corridor for the Metrorail, which was projected to cost exactly $2.4B.

The flaw in this argument is that BOTH things are needed. There is no need for an E-W line, if there are no popular desitnations along the route. This held true going way back to when the Orange Bowl was still in existence and home to both the Dolphins and 'Canes. I would argue that the construction of Marlins Park actually ENHANCES the chances of an E-W line.

Downtown, to the OB/Marlins Park, MIA, FIU....with a few stations in between is still needed, and long time SSC members know that I have been a supporter of Metrorail, since the 1970s...

[theEmbarcadero]

Originally Posted by spellbound

Mostly true, but I would add that the public was never really told that none of those extensions would become reality without federal matching funds. I think 99% of those voting yes on it honestly thought the local tax itself would be all that was needed.

There was a lot of intentional omission of the facts from those backing it, starting with Penelas. I don't know how the vote might have gone had people known the truth---but they deserve transparency.

Honest question here, spell....

It has always been my opinion that the reason no federal funds were available from Washington, was because of the distrust of local officials and the history of mismanagement in Miami-Dade. Am I wrong?

I realize that funds ARE tight, and mass transit is a political hot potato...but I have always been of the opinion that money could have been available if Miami would have been smarter and more honest. I know that Washington always laughed at projected ridership numbers....along with other promises.

[CalleOchoGringo]

It probably also has alot to do with what string your local politicians are able/willing to pull for their constituents. William Lehman was able to do alot to get the metrorail and metromover going. But it seems Ross-Lethinan is far more interested in fighting for Israel or against Cuba than she is for helping Miamians.

[theEmbarcadero]

Originally Posted by CalleOchoGringo

It probably also has alot to do with what string your local politicians are able/willing to pull for their constituents. William Lehman was able to do alot to get the metrorail and metromover going. But it seems Ross-Lethinan is far more interested in fighting for Israel or against Cuba than she is for helping Miamians.

What he said too....

[spellbound]

Originally Posted by theEmbarcadero

Honest question here, spell....

It has always been my opinion that the reason no federal funds were available from Washington, was because of the distrust of local officials and the history of mismanagement in Miami-Dade. Am I wrong?

I realize that funds ARE tight, and mass transit is a political hot potato...but I have always been of the opinion that money could have been available if Miami would have been smarter and more honest. I know that Washington always laughed at projected ridership numbers....along with other promises.

Calle already mentioned the influence of Lehman in getting the original funding. That was HUGE---the single biggest factor. Dante Fascell also helped substantially. Unfortunately, Miami just doesn't have that kind of congressional power anymore--along with the simple fact the feds just aren't involved with heavy-rail funding to any great degree these days, aside from subway expansion in NYC and Los Angeles. Nearly everything has gone towards light-rail initiatives in other cities...an area where MDTA has been woefully out of touch with no real planning.

As you mentioned, some of the federal resistance to funding things like the North extension (the E/W was never even in the pipeline) came as a direct result of MDTA's own ineptitude and outright falsehoods. Their ridership projections have often been ludicrous--as was the case with the original line AND the proposed North extension---and the feds (I must say to their credit) called them out on it.

Water under the bridge at this point, though. As I've said here many times the real problem is that MDTA seemingly continues to exist in a time warp--unable or unwilling to change their gameplan to reflect new realities. There isn't any money coming for more Metrorail. That has been patently obvious for years. They need to come to grips with that and look at light rail initiatives that WOULD have a chance at securing a slice of that ever-smaller federal pie or we will simply see a continuation of more busways, highway projects, etc.

[mr jones]

Originally Posted by Lakelander

Here are some station planning concepts from their environmental study:

Miami:



Fort Lauderdale:



West Palm Beach:

..

[theEmbarcadero]

Originally Posted by spellbound

Calle already mentioned the influence of Lehman in getting the original funding. That was HUGE---the single biggest factor. Dante Fascell also helped substantially. Unfortunately, Miami just doesn't have that kind of congressional power anymore--along with the simple fact the feds just aren't involved with heavy-rail funding to any great degree these days, aside from subway expansion in NYC and Los Angeles. Nearly everything has gone towards light-rail initiatives in other cities...an area where MDTA has been woefully out of touch with no real planning.

As you mentioned, some of the federal resistance to funding things like the North extension (the E/W was never even in the pipeline) came as a direct result of MDTA's own ineptitude and outright falsehoods. Their ridership projections have often been ludicrous--as was the case with the original line AND the proposed North extension---and the feds (I must say to their credit) called them out on it.

Water under the bridge at this point, though. As I've said here many times the real problem is that MDTA seemingly continues to exist in a time warp--unable or unwilling to change their gameplan to reflect new realities. There isn't any money coming for more Metrorail. That has been patently obvious for years. They need to come to grips with that and look at light rail initiatives that WOULD have a chance at securing a slice of that ever-smaller federal pie or we will simply see a continuation of more busways, highway projects, etc.

Good stuff! As for your last paragraph.....how high does a gallon of gasoline have to go before Miami-Dade folks realize that they might need to finance more Metrorail---without any state or Federal funds?

As I have said many times before.....residents will regret not funding more Metrorail in 15-20 years. I see a day, in our lifetimes that individuals will no longer be able to the afford the luxury of owning/aperating a private vehicle...