American Arts and Crafts Museum -- Curtis Hixon

[gstolze]

The old Court House/Post Office would have been perfect but they had to sell it to turn it into a hotel. Something I really don't see in a structure like that.

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by TPAMAN

I think the city should persuade them to pursue the block across the street from Five Guys.

That is a $7 million property (in 2005) with an office building on it. How would they do that? The only "vacant" lot on Zack is owned by the Accardi brothers and would probably cost even more than tearing down an office building. While I really like the idea of putting museums there it would almost double the cost of building the thing and the city would have to put up a big chunk of that (which would only drive costs up, not down).

This would encourage people to "cross the street into our downtown core" and maybe give some life to those areas...promote some walkability and spread the wealth and downtown experience outside the park.
I agree with Jason they should promote museums and such up their "AVENUE" to help maximize the city's investment.
My office is at Tampa Union Station and I would love nothing more than somehow bringing all these museums under one fold where visitors take the time to visit each of them during a visit (i.e. the ones at Curtis Hixon, this one up the Avenue somewhere, The Firefighters Museum, and end at Union Station with some type of Railroad/Transportation Museum which first opened up Florida as the ORIGINAL tourist market. It would liven up this dreamed up avenue and possibly generate hotel construction and activity along the corridor.

Like the general idea a lot, but I don't see how it can be done without spending hundreds of millions.

Originally Posted by Tgstolze

The old Court House/Post Office would have been perfect but they had to sell it to turn it into a hotel. Something I really don't see in a structure like that.

Don't disagree in general except it would have been about twice the size that they would need, and no idea what to do with 40,000 square feet. Also, it's less interesting space for arts and crafts museum

[smiley]

based on their map, the left side of this view would be blocked
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=tampa,...44.47,,0,12.91

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by smiley

based on their map, the left side of this view would be blocked
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=tampa,...44.47,,0,12.91

This one would be completely blocked, but the views from the park itself:

View from Ashley.

I would say that much of that view is already mostly blocked by the trees and the parking garage with a park on top when you're walking on street. I guess the point is -- why on earth are we proposing buying millions of dollars of land or moving out of the arts district when these two parks are already divided?

[jonknee]

Ouch.

Don't squander park on sketchy museum idea

If there is a worse idea for Tampa's Curtis Hixon Park than the half-baked scheme to put an arts and crafts museum on the downtown waterfront, the city has yet to hear it.

On Friday, the Palm Harbor-based Two Red Roses Foundation proposed building a $31 million American Craftsman Museum at Curtis Hixon. The nonprofit has one of the largest collections of arts and crafts in America, with everything from furniture to fine arts and pottery. Tampa Mayor Bob Buckhorn said the project, which would include a museum and restaurant, would "further energize" the urban core and offer something "totally unique."

The proposal is unique, all right, in all the wrong ways. The city would hand over 1.2 acres of the park for $1 per year for 99 years. Tampa and Hillsborough County taxpayers would provide a $1 million annual subsidy for the first five years; the nonprofit also initially sought another $500,000 annually for every year thereafter. The city would also assume all site demolition and preparation costs, waive all impact fees and property taxes for the life of the museum, provide 30 free parking spaces and promise to help expedite a liquor license for an "upscale" restaurant on the riverfront.

It gets worse. Contrary to the city's claim that the museum would be "adjacent" to the park, the building would actually take over a significant chunk of park space. Curtis Hixon would lose the southern portion of the park, virtually all of its elevated benches and patio tables and what little tree canopy provides shade. Though Two Red Roses claims the building would act as an "urban frame" for the park, nothing could be further from reality. Clogging the park with another needless building would only leave a shotgun of green space to the river. It hems in the park experience with a cul-de-sac feel and cuts off one of the park's signature experiences, the sloping view of the historic and towering minarets across the river at the University of Tampa.

While discussions are continuing, this looks like a dream fishing for a home. The business plan calls for cramming the place with a tourist kiosk for the Chamber of Commerce, an office for the local branch of the architects' society and (what else?) a gift shop. None of these are needed at Curtis Hixon, and they would be a terrible waste of downtown's only meaningful park space. The park already includes two new museums that were shoehorned in along its northern edge. And the city has done a terrific job of drawing events to Curtis Hixon. Adding another museum on the opposite side of the park would convert the remaining open space into a wind tunnel and reverse the progress the city has made in opening up the riverfront. Tampa has too much invested in its public lawn to squander it on such an unfocused idea.

[kmthurman]

Tampa Bay Times didn't want TMA there either.

Also would have been more credible if 1) they had offered a viable alternative to keep the $60 million investment in Downtown Tampa over 10 years. 2) If they had acknowledged the $60 million investment.

I am all for moving it into interior Downtown, and agree that it would be a better idea to draw people into that area, and love the idea of it being on Zack.

But unless you plan on tearing down buildings or paying nearly $15 million to the Accardi's I can't see a place to put it there. Only place thatwou;dn't cost almost as much as it costs to build is halting Waterworks and putting it there -- which I don't like personally. Anyone got any ideas?

[TPAMAN]

Originally Posted by kmthurman

Tampa Bay Times didn't want TMA there either.

Also would have been more credible if 1) they had offered a viable alternative to keep the $60 million investment in Downtown Tampa over 10 years. 2) If they had acknowledged the $60 million investment.

I am all for moving it into interior Downtown, and agree that it would be a better idea to draw people into that area, and love the idea of it being on Zack.

But unless you plan on tearing down buildings or paying nearly $15 million to the Accardi's I can't see a place to put it there. Only place thatwou;dn't cost almost as much as it costs to build is halting Waterworks and putting it there -- which I don't like personally. Anyone got any ideas?

I agree with putting it up in the Waterworks area. It would help jumpstart some much needed traffic in that park. It would also compliment the efforts by the Gonzmart's and their chophouse/seafood restaurant. Not to mention, add some life to the stalled "Heights" development. Considering the type of museum, Arts & Crafts, might be a given to place it close to neighborhoods where you can actually see some of the architecture in place (i.e. Tampa Heights & Seminole Heights). They could offer extended walking tours of these neighborhoods to compliment their museum.
Seems like a better fit that would "stretch" the Riverwalk visitor experience by having tourists start at this end and maybe finish at the History Center spending a little bit of their day at each park along the way.
I would think our leaders should be wanting to spread the wealth along the entire path and not just Curtis Hixon. If they don't, it's only a matter of time before the History Center starts asking for further handouts since they will be "outside" of the Arts area and can not make it on their own...
Just my two cents (sense) here

[kmthurman]

Yeah another attraction aside from the restaurant would be good up there. The park will be done in time for the new restaurant and then the Riverwalk will get there at the end of 2014 or so. The reason I am not a fan of this museum there is that it is far away and a 53,000 sq footprint for a 75,000 sq foot building would take up all but 2,000 sq feet of the park. even if you built a three story building there and shrunk the footprint to

Based on the vision I have seen in documents since 1990's has been to create two main areas: An arts district and a tourism oriented one. The mistake -- imho -- was made over the children's museum in the arts district not near the aquarium and history center. It should be located near the aquarium & history center in the port's massive surface lot there (or in place of the new parking structure if they didn't want a tall building) and then this museum could be going there instead. But that is fantasy now ...

I don't know if I can say it's a good idea to put it a mile north and across 275 from the arts district. Or are we expanding it north? I don't care either way -- I personally think waterworks park would be bad (partly because of the space available and party because the design of the park as it stands sucks pretty badly) but the problem is the part of the Riverwalk north of Straz will never be filled because of the way the streets work --and it'll be a mile walk between museums under a freeway.

Maybe all the people who think rail will never happen should argue we give up all those FDOT City lots open up there

[kmthurman]

Also -- the entire brown area in this sat photo on google maps will be available:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=map+t...gl=us&t=h&z=18

And it's the area used for events ... I am not sure I get the loss of public space concern.

[Jasonhouse]

Originally Posted by kmthurman

Tampa Bay Times didn't want TMA there either.

Lots of people didn't. FWIW, I still don't think that either museum should have been located there.

[kmthurman]

Originally Posted by Jasonhouse

Lots of people didn't. FWIW, I still don't think that either museum should have been located there.

Intersting, where do you think it should have gone?

[Jasonhouse]

There are almost countless options... Should have shared the old federal courthouse, or near the Straz Center, or even on the VIP East lot, just north of the History Center.

Tucking the TMA up close to Rivergate Tower wasn't such a bad idea either, they just had an overdone concept that was managed terribly.

[TampaMike]

I like where the TMA is, not too please where the Children's Museum ended up. I'm all for spacing out our cultural amenities, so rather have the Children's Museum somewhere near Channelside, just east of Channelside Drive. Kind of forces people to walk around the city more.

There's still opportunity for more museums down the road for Tampa.

[dmpeek77]

Arts and Crafts Museum? Really? Dumb idea..

[Del Mayberry]

Originally Posted by dmpeek77

Arts and Crafts Museum? Really? Dumb idea..

Sounds like the kind of place you only go to ONCE.

[kmthurman]

Yeah people hate the Arts & Crafts movement -- just look at all the reviews of the museum with the most from that era in Florida right now.

And the collection got terrible reviews in St Pete so bad they used the collection as a fundraiser fundraiser with it for St Pete Fine Arts museum.

In all seriousness -- it'd be the only museum dedicated to a popular movement and would draw visitors from outside Tampa. The only museum with more decorative arts from this era would be MAD in NYC. I can see why some people say they wouldn't go, but the same is sad of every other of our museums.

[tamparican]

TBH I thought the same exact thing.. the city is paying $5M over 5 years of taxpayer $ to help some guy house his collection of junk downtown.... surely there has to be a better plan for that prime location, yet 75K SQ of random old trinkets is what Tampa came up with!?!?.. I personally think it's a waste of $ and property, but im sure the city knows better and judging by the glowing reviews^ apparently this is something that might find a niche.

[kmthurman]

All museums are filled with random old trinkets! I was being sarcastic about the other stuff -- it's not a Monet museum but Tampa will never get one. St pete has spent WAY more than this on Dali (and they should its more popular). It's a popular movement especially in the east & south.

But everyone keeps focusing on the money and that's a littlw ridiculous.He is paying nearly $40 million of his own money to build and hire people and he's asking for money AFTER its built from local & state governments for 5 years. He will continue to put 140% more of hIs own money during that time. We give for profit companies more incentives.

[Jasonhouse]

I still say if it's subsidized, then we get to pick its location. And I wouldn't put it in this location in a million years.

[Del Mayberry]

I'd go to Daly again. I couldn't take it all in the first time and it was crowded that day.