MISC | What's your vision for a future airport?

[rockyg]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Hmmm... if that's the case, then corruption indeed is a major problem to finally making our airports modern and attractive to both travelers and the general public. On top of that, airport mismanagement and mispriorities are commonplace that we are still stuck with FAA's Category 2, EU's airlines ban, and ICAO's significant safety concerns. How will the government finally catch up to the mistakes done by the previous administration... and fast?

I've seen a lot of progress made to address the FAA issues. ICAO is coming in this month to do an assessment. And hopefully the EU will review the country's policies soon. Why do we deserve to be in such predicament to begin with? Do we really deserve to be punished this severely by aviation regulators? What do you think can be done to improve this situation?

As for NAIA, yet another VOR breakdown means another setback to progress to be upgraded to Category 1. That definitely is a sign that the government is still missing out on a priority (and maybe opportunities) to replace the broken VOR system and getting a new one. The culture of corruption must be cut, and cut cleanly.

pinapalayas na tayo doon sa kabila....tama nga naman...dito ba pwede natin pagusapan ang bagong location ng airport?

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by rockyg

pinapalayas na tayo doon sa kabila....tama nga naman...dito ba pwede natin pagusapan ang bagong location ng airport?

Bakit mo naman sinasabing "pinapalayas" tayo? And of course, this is the place where you can discuss about how the airport will look like, not necessarily the location. But should you want to talk about the location, that's fine too.

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Bakit mo naman sinasabing "pinapalayas" tayo? And of course, this is the place where you can discuss about how the airport will look like, not necessarily the location. But should you want to talk about the location, that's fine too.

This is a good thread to continue the new PAL airport discussion because it will take a while before you reach a thousand replies and the thread gets archived. It will also consolidate the discussions in the Clark and NAIA airport threads.

The only thing is that not that many SSC forumers are aware of this thread, being relatively new, but you can encourage them to post here as we go along.

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Hmmm... if that's the case, then corruption indeed is a major problem to finally making our airports modern and attractive to both travelers and the general public. On top of that, airport mismanagement and mispriorities are commonplace that we are still stuck with FAA's Category 2, EU's airlines ban, and ICAO's significant safety concerns. How will the government finally catch up to the mistakes done by the previous administration... and fast?

I've seen a lot of progress made to address the FAA issues. ICAO is coming in this month to do an assessment. And hopefully the EU will review the country's policies soon. Why do we deserve to be in such predicament to begin with? Do we really deserve to be punished this severely by aviation regulators? What do you think can be done to improve this situation?

As for NAIA, yet another VOR breakdown means another setback to progress to be upgraded to Category 1. That definitely is a sign that the government is still missing out on a priority (and maybe opportunities) to replace the broken VOR system and getting a new one. The culture of corruption must be cut, and cut cleanly.

Corruption is a given with any government project, period. The degree of corruption will determine how the project quality will be (less kickbacks means faster time and fewer shortcuts thus a better job done). The longer a project takes then you can assume more is lost due to decreased productivity and idle equipment and labor.

Which is why the 3 year plan of Ramon Ang for the new PAL airport is doable. Filipinos are so conditioned to project delays that they have a bahala na attitude. This is something you don't see in public works in China, they will bulldoze whatever is in the path of the project with little regard for human rights and whatsoever, but still they get the job done. The last time I think human rights were disregarded during a major project in this country was when Imeldific had the ECP (Experimental Cinema of the Phils) rushed which resulted in a number of workers' deaths. But since then, I don't know of any major project that was railroaded to happen fast that quality also suffered in the end.

In another post, I said that DMCI and San Miguel would make a great combination for the new PAL airport, and I believe this partnership can have the airport complex done within 3 years. Sure, they may work 24/7 but DMCI will not rush their work without ensuring quality at every step. They can likewise bring international airport contractors (even the infamous Tanaka of PIATCO) but as long as it doesn't get into the hands of shady contractors, the project will be fine.

In order to improve the situation, we just have to go back to basics. Fire all the political appointees who have not proven themselves and replace them with professionally trained or experienced personnel. Likewise, pay these personnel international standard rates based on qualifications and experience. And subject them to regular audits not just by the government but other independent international teams.

The less the government gets involved in the new airport the better. They will always have their hands full trying to upgrade the rest of the airports in the country, NAIA and Clark included.

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by NTprime

This is a good thread to continue the new PAL airport discussion because it will take a while before you reach a thousand replies and the thread gets archived. It will also consolidate the discussions in the Clark and NAIA airport threads.

The only thing is that not that many SSC forumers are aware of this thread, being relatively new, but you can encourage them to post here as we go along.

Indeed, and I specifically set this thread up, not only for the new PAL airport, but also if anyone wants to discuss any future airport for Metro Manila -- and the Philippines if needed. But, again, it will also have the same question with the same set of facilities so that the answers will remain uniform.

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by NTprime

Corruption is a given with any government project, period. The degree of corruption will determine how the project quality will be (less kickbacks means faster time and fewer shortcuts thus a better job done). The longer a project takes then you can assume more is lost due to decreased productivity and idle equipment and labor.

Which is why the 3 year plan of Ramon Ang for the new PAL airport is doable. Filipinos are so conditioned to project delays that they have a bahala na attitude. This is something you don't see in public works in China, they will bulldoze whatever is in the path of the project with little regard for human rights and whatsoever, but still they get the job done. The last time I think human rights were disregarded during a major project in this country was when Imeldific had the ECP (Experimental Cinema of the Phils) rushed which resulted in a number of workers' deaths. But since then, I don't know of any major project that was railroaded to happen fast that quality also suffered in the end.

In another post, I said that DMCI and San Miguel would make a great combination for the new PAL airport, and I believe this partnership can have the airport complex done within 3 years. Sure, they may work 24/7 but DMCI will not rush their work without ensuring quality at every step. They can likewise bring international airport contractors (even the infamous Tanaka of PIATCO) but as long as it doesn't get into the hands of shady contractors, the project will be fine.

Yes, a 3-year plan for the PAL airport seems to be workable because it needs to involve several factors, including extensive environmental studies, land development, infrastructure development, runway construction, navigational lighting, and of course, the terminals and the control tower, not to mention cargo facilities and hangars. (As an aside, I hope Mr. Ang will not provide general aviation spaces at the new airport because it causes too much congestion and instead send it to other airports.) And yes, corruption will always be in every government project, especially as large as this new airport; politicians will craft ways to get kickbacks and commissions so that they can gain windfall from this project at the expense of getting substandard construction materials and not finishing certain important parts of the new airport, like VOR and ILS systems.

I also hope, though, that this project will not be rushed because it will take a lot of land to create a key part of the Metro's future, with runway grading, taxiway development, terminal layout, interior design, and most importantly wind speed and direction surveys so that the runways will be built along with wherever the wind goes anytime of day, anytime of the year. It is crucial to make some investments in scientific research when building this airport so that not only it will be spared from flooding when the area rains or gets hit by a typhoon, but also to withstand earthquakes and other natural phenomena Mother Nature might throw at it. It will be very useful to get foreign assistance in making this project possible, and hopefully, the contractors the government will get will act professionally, within terms of service, and be paid properly.

Originally Posted by NTprime

In order to improve the situation, we just have to go back to basics. Fire all the political appointees who have not proven themselves and replace them with professionally trained or experienced personnel. Likewise, pay these personnel international standard rates based on qualifications and experience. And subject them to regular audits not just by the government but other independent international teams.

The less the government gets involved in the new airport the better. They will always have their hands full trying to upgrade the rest of the airports in the country, NAIA and Clark included.

Nothing else says better than your statement, and I hope Filipino politicians will heed to your call.

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Yes, a 3-year plan for the PAL airport seems to be workable because it needs to involve several factors, including extensive environmental studies, land development, infrastructure development, runway construction, navigational lighting, and of course, the terminals and the control tower, not to mention cargo facilities and hangars. (As an aside, I hope Mr. Ang will not provide general aviation spaces at the new airport because it causes too much congestion and instead send it to other airports.) And yes, corruption will always be in every government project, especially as large as this new airport; politicians will craft ways to get kickbacks and commissions so that they can gain windfall from this project at the expense of getting substandard construction materials and not finishing certain important parts of the new airport, like VOR and ILS systems.

I also hope, though, that this project will not be rushed because it will take a lot of land to create a key part of the Metro's future, with runway grading, taxiway development, terminal layout, interior design, and most importantly wind speed and direction surveys so that the runways will be built along with wherever the wind goes anytime of day, anytime of the year. It is crucial to make some investments in scientific research when building this airport so that not only it will be spared from flooding when the area rains or gets hit by a typhoon, but also to withstand earthquakes and other natural phenomena Mother Nature might throw at it. It will be very useful to get foreign assistance in making this project possible, and hopefully, the contractors the government will get will act professionally, within terms of service, and be paid properly.



Nothing else says better than your statement, and I hope Filipino politicians will heed to your call.

We can start with newly sworn-in DOTC Secretary Jun Abaya. I've known him for quite some time - last time we talked though, he said he will continue what Mar Roxas has set in place before he (Mar) was appointed to the DILG. I am sure Jun will find out that there is much more to be done with the major airports. The new PAL airport proposal by San Miguel and Ramon Ang sometime Q1 next year will surely be an eye opener for all. Am certain this will be an interesting time for the DOTC, and with Abaya at the helm, lots of positive things can happen.

[rockyg]

Originally Posted by NTprime

This is a good thread to continue the new PAL airport discussion because it will take a while before you reach a thousand replies and the thread gets archived. It will also consolidate the discussions in the Clark and NAIA airport threads.

The only thing is that not that many SSC forumers are aware of this thread, being relatively new, but you can encourage them to post here as we go along.

my idea....(on-going sketch)

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by rockyg

my idea....(on-going sketch)

This is the fishpond area near Bocaue. While the location is ideal, the topography isn't. There is a large river snaking in the middle of the plot you drew (or probably that will be the border of the airport complex). I wonder how much excavation and compacting has to be done so that the ground doesn't sink further a few cm. every year.

[fieldsofdreams]

That location in Bocaue might be feasible, but I think the location is full of fishponds because of its proximity to Manila Bay, plus the area is notorious as well because it is the hub of the fireworks industry... I think if an airport is to be built in that area, then government authorities should phase out the fireworks stalls that line the roadways during the Holidays so that airplanes can depart and land safely... overhead smog may be one of the last things pilots need to conquer with when landing and departing right after December 31.

[rockyg]

in scouting the areas that sir Ntprime mentioned....that is the location i found with less existing structures that will be affected. The area also have ample spaces and can accomodate our model (suvarnabhumi) 3.3km x 7.5 km....with a parallel runway of 4km like the most airports,,,incheon,bangkok,dubai,etc...see the list i posted in other thread...one of the good feature will be the approach from manila bay...for the fishponds, i know it is a tedious work...but compared to suvarnabhumi airport which is a marshland...natyagaan nila..kung me iba nga sanang location. please take note that it is scaled sketch already..

[rockyg]

for the waterways that snake inside...wala na yan at ang perimeter na channel na ang magsisilbing waterways palabas ng bay...di ko lang tinangal muna para makita pa natin sya sa sketch...

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by rockyg

in scouting the areas that sir Ntprime mentioned....that is the location i found with less existing structures that will be affected. The area also have ample spaces and can accomodate our model (suvarnabhumi) 3.3km x 7.5 km....with a parallel runway of 4km like the most airports,,,incheon,bangkok,dubai,etc...see the list i posted in other thread...one of the good feature will be the approach from manila bay...for the fishponds, i know it is a tedious work...but compared to suvarnabhumi airport which is a marshland...natyagaan nila..kung me iba nga sanang location. please take note that it is scaled sketch already..

If we follow the Suvarnabhumi model it will take more than 3 years since there will be additional land compacting in the fishpond areas compared to if the airport location were on dry land. Not only that, it will cost much more probably even if the government were to exercise its right of eminent domain on the houses and private properties in the areas where San Miguel is buying land for the airport complex.

[rockyg]

[rockyg]

ang mga member ng future Bulacan Yacht Club,,ay yong mga dating may palaisdaan at mangingisda...

[rockyg]

revision as per request.....

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by rockyg

revision as per request.....

Splendid design. Question, though: how will you prevent flooding when the area gets lots of rain? And what else will you develop around the area?

[philippinearena]

Originally Posted by rockyg

revision as per request.....

Kaswerte naman ng mga taga Bulacan!

[Aerolineas]

Originally Posted by rockyg

revision as per request.....

What made Bulacan Airport advantage and futuristic purposes is accessible to Manila Bay that RORO and Maritime access is IMPORTANT, CONVENIENT and alternative route to BYPASS MEGA MANILA for us VISDAKZ or Southern Tagalog. I like this Flood is not issue as long as proper infrastructure is in place if Holland/Netherlands can survived why can't this Area and expansions etc... looks ok. Approved

[rockyg]

Originally Posted by Aerolineas

What made Bulacan Airport advantage and futuristic purposes is accessible to Manila Bay that RORO and Maritime access is IMPORTANT, CONVENIENT and alternative route to BYPASS MEGA MANILA for us VISDAKZ or Southern Tagalog. I like this Flood is not issue as long as proper infrastructure is in place if Holland/Netherlands can survived why can't this Area and expansions etc... looks ok. Approved

Bulacan Water Reservoir and treatment facility will be used for flood control and rainwater harvesting...there is flood gates that control the inflow/outflow of the channel and also garbage collector before discharging to manila bay. Roro will serve the cargo and passenger from other port such as visayas....