MISC | What's your vision for a future airport?

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by seabeeman

Napapangitan pa rin ako sa airport na yan. Exterior maganda. At saka bumawi na lang sila sa mga gardens at Thai decorations sa loob. Mukha pa ring Hindi natapos.

Actually, the exposed wires and pipelines are becoming an increasingly popular trend as it shows the aesthetics of an airport, making tracking a problem much easier to do rather than having a ceiling to concede the pipework. Plus, many airport enthusiasts like such designs because it provides a sharp contrast of simplicity at the floor level versus the details if you look above. It may look unfinished for some people, but it's aesthetically beautiful for designers. Think of the Pompidou Center in Paris, with pipes running in and out of its structure, for instance.

[seabeeman]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Actually, the exposed wires and pipelines are becoming an increasingly popular trend as it shows the aesthetics of an airport, making tracking a problem much easier to do rather than having a ceiling to concede the pipework. Plus, many airport enthusiasts like such designs because it provides a sharp contrast of simplicity at the floor level versus the details if you look above. It may look unfinished for some people, but it's aesthetically beautiful for designers. Think of the Pompidou Center in Paris, with pipes running in and out of its structure, for instance.

I know what you mean, I've been to several buildings with an unfinished design. Iba ang case sa Suvarnabhumi, beautiful exteriors but disappointing interiors lalo na sa arrival. Excited pa akong pumasok diya, pagbaba ko kala ko nasa warehouse ako.

[fieldsofdreams]

hehehe well, it makes repairs easy since you can find the problem easily.

And by the way, do you think that any of the airports (MNL, CRK, or the "new" airport) can become an Aerotropolis of their own? I have a supplement poll thread that discusses a potential future of Airport Cities: click on the link below called Aerotropolis to join the discussion.

Moving along, do you think that faster procedures for departing and arriving passengers can be achieved at any of our airports because it seems like it is trailing in votes...? I mean, in the developed world, one can go through a departure procedure in under an hour (check in, security clearance, immigration (for international flights)). But in the Philippines? It takes much more than that. It's like efficiency is lacking in our airports, which is of concern for especially business travelers.

[Isopropyl]

I remember 5J’s check in procedure in T3 was so disorganized before. Back then, passengers with later flights can check in ahead of those whose flight is in about an hour. As a result, Ceb Pac personnels keep on shouting for last call for flight 5J this and that passengers who are still stuck in queue trying to check in.

Now, they disallow passengers with later flights to check in ahead of time. I don’t know if it is good thing but for me it was. When I arrived at the airport, I went straight to the express counter since I had no additional baggage. I finished the check in procedure, believe me, in about 10 minutes. Downside is, passengers arriving too early at the terminal are crowding in the little space of the check in area. Meanwhile, arrival is fine in Naia.

[philippinearena]

Tanong lang... May lupa din ba ang San Miguel sa Cavite or namili din ba sila sa Cavite pwera sa Bulakan, Bulacan and San Jose Del Monte?

[rockyg]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Actually, the exposed wires and pipelines are becoming an increasingly popular trend as it shows the aesthetics of an airport, making tracking a problem much easier to do rather than having a ceiling to concede the pipework. Plus, many airport enthusiasts like such designs because it provides a sharp contrast of simplicity at the floor level versus the details if you look above. It may look unfinished for some people, but it's aesthetically beautiful for designers. Think of the Pompidou Center in Paris, with pipes running in and out of its structure, for instance.

Correct...Appreciating beauty and beautiful objects, irrespective of whether the same is natural or represents the artistic expressions generated by men. Parang sa mukha ng babae din yan...yong iba gusto ay simple, walang make-up....

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by Isopropyl

I remember 5J’s check in procedure in T3 was so disorganized before. Back then, passengers with later flights can check in ahead of those whose flight is in about an hour. As a result, Ceb Pac personnels keep on shouting for last call for flight 5J this and that passengers who are still stuck in queue trying to check in.

Now, they disallow passengers with later flights to check in ahead of time. I don’t know if it is good thing but for me it was. When I arrived at the airport, I went straight to the express counter since I had no additional baggage. I finished the check in procedure, believe me, in about 10 minutes. Downside is, passengers arriving too early at the terminal are crowding in the little space of the check in area. Meanwhile, arrival is fine in Naia.

I think disallowing passengers with later flights to check in ahead is a bad idea because it limits a passenger's choice of check-in time, as well as promoting long queues during check-in. Add to that the fact that if there are long lines at check-in, especially during the holidays, it can become a real hassle if you have to be at your gate at a certain time so that you won't miss your flight.

Other airlines permit passengers to check in as early as 72 hours before their flight all the way to like 30 minutes before, giving passengers flexibility where they want to sit, what meals they want to have, and with the time savings, they can enjoy more of an airport's facilities without rushing for time running through the departure checks.

[Isopropyl]

Agree, it’s a bad thing for early passengers, good for those on time. 2 hours before the flight na lang yata yung pinapa-check in nila ngayon, not sure about this.

Actually, lines were longer in check in counters before when they haven’t implemented this yet. Now it takes less than 30 minutes to check in with their new procedure. As I have observed with their new procedure, check in counters are not crowded in itself but there is a build up of crowd outside the cordoned area of the counters. Maybe they didn’t expect the new procedure because some passengers arrive at the terminal 5 hours before their flight even though they're flying a domestic route. Maybe 5J's check in counters are not enough? What do you guys think? Kasi naguguluhan talaga ako dati sa check in procedure ng 5J, ngayon ang bilis bilis.

[fieldsofdreams]

Crowd build-up outside the cordoned area? Very interesting... How can that happen? I think a most efficient way to deal with this problem is to allow check-in as early as 48 hours before the flight, and those who checked in online (with an e-ticket) can just go straight through security, pay fees (if needed) and head straight to the gate. Now that is what I call saving time from lining up in front of a counter just to check in... That will be reserved then for those who really need to check their bags in on the aircraft.

[Isopropyl]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Crowd build-up outside the cordoned area? Very interesting... How can that happen? I think a most efficient way to deal with this problem is to allow check-in as early as 48 hours before the flight, and those who checked in online (with an e-ticket) can just go straight through security, pay fees (if needed) and head straight to the gate. Now that is what I call saving time from lining up in front of a counter just to check in... That will be reserved then for those who really need to check their bags in on the aircraft.

Yup, apparently there was a crowd build up outside the cordoned area the last time I was there just this month. I suppose those build up of crowd are those passengers who weren't allowed to check in. Allowing passengers to check in ahead of time is the ideal thing but then as what I have said, a scenario can happen wherein passengers with later flights get to check in ahead of those passengers whose flight is already near. Marami pa naman sumisingit.

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Crowd build-up outside the cordoned area? Very interesting... How can that happen? I think a most efficient way to deal with this problem is to allow check-in as early as 48 hours before the flight, and those who checked in online (with an e-ticket) can just go straight through security, pay fees (if needed) and head straight to the gate. Now that is what I call saving time from lining up in front of a counter just to check in... That will be reserved then for those who really need to check their bags in on the aircraft.

Many airlines already allow check-in up to 48 hours ahead of departure time, but the passenger still has to physically give their luggage to the counter although the process of selecting a seat is taken out already. This is a good idea for frequent travelers since they already know what to expect, how much baggage allowance they have, etc. What is dangerous about online check-in is if it is given to those who don't follow baggage restrictions, or are simply no-shows when check-in and flight time arrives. Some airlines are promoting this no-show culture (I won't mention who exactly but it is at least one of our local LCCs) by saying that if you don't intend to travel, then just don't show up at the airport. And without the NUF (non-user's fee, aka no-show fee), people can just book cheap flights en masse and just choose if and when they decide to travel on what flight, etc. Which then causes the airlines to overbook some more, since they know this is a trend. But what now if everyone shows up? That's when the big problems happen, and this has been happening more often compared to the time when there was an NUF.

What airlines should do is give this online check-in facility as a benefit to their most loyal customers, allow it also for first time customers with profile details in their reservations system (but if they don't show up without proper cancellation more than once then revoke their privileges). I can tell you online check-in is a blessing - used it more than twice this year and went through the whole process in like 10 minutes, compared to the others who waited through the check-in queue (at least 30 minutes), while jockeying to get the prized seats that they will never get because people like me who used online check-in or advanced seat reservations got those seats hours, even days or weeks ago.

But I'm all for early check-in (physical check-in), especially if the passenger is coming from a far off place like the province, or connecting on another flight, whether or not it is on the same carrier.

[fieldsofdreams]

So online check-in is a double-edged sword indeed: on the one hand, you can check-in ahead of many, many passengers and book a preferred seat you want (especially if you're in one of the higher tiers of a mileage program); on the other, those same passengers might be carrying too much that they might be stopped at security for extra baggage checks, which could mean an inconvenience for them -- sometimes taking longer than when it's done at physical check-in. It is just one of those technologies wherein it is both a blessing, and -- could be potentially -- a curse.

What about common electronic check-in counters next to physical check-in desks: do they act similarly as online check-in, or what's a difference? I've seen some at SFO, particularly at the International Terminal where one check-in machine can allow you to check in with at least five different airlines upon arrival from BART.

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

So online check-in is a double-edged sword indeed: on the one hand, you can check-in ahead of many, many passengers and book a preferred seat you want (especially if you're in one of the higher tiers of a mileage program); on the other, those same passengers might be carrying too much that they might be stopped at security for extra baggage checks, which could mean an inconvenience for them -- sometimes taking longer than when it's done at physical check-in. It is just one of those technologies wherein it is both a blessing, and -- could be potentially -- a curse.

What about common electronic check-in counters next to physical check-in desks: do they act similarly as online check-in, or what's a difference? I've seen some at SFO, particularly at the International Terminal where one check-in machine can allow you to check in with at least five different airlines upon arrival from BART.

It is a boon since you don't have to arrive that early to get a choice seat (well, it is actually ASR/advanced seat reservation that gives you that benefit) but the problem with ASR weeks in advance is that some carriers change their A/C at the last minute. I remember an incident many years ago on an American carrier where I had the rightmost window and aisle seats reserved on their DC-10; they replaced it last minute with another DC-10 and I lost the seat reservation. Had to argue my way at the check-in counter because they were putting me in the middle of a 5 abreast seating arrangement. In the end, after some 15 minutes of negotiating, I got back my window and aisle seats. What a waste of time though due to bickering and explanation to the gate agent.

Electronic check in counters like what you describe are useful because you already have most of the information the check-in agent needs except the physical baggage and its final weight. So that also helps those who are lined up in the regular check-in queue.

For NAIA, I always try to get online check-in or ASR at the very least. You can end up wasting 30 minutes to an hour of your time just lining up for check-in. That time could be spent at the lounge or the duty free shops. And the lines at NAIA Terminal 1 are the worst among the 3 NAIA terminals.

[rockyg]

Originally Posted by rockyg

Bulacan Water Reservoir and treatment facility will be used for flood control and rainwater harvesting...there is flood gates that control the inflow/outflow of the channel and also garbage collector before discharging to manila bay. Roro will serve the cargo and passenger from other port such as visayas....

noong 2005 me study pala na pagandahin ang manila bay

-basura sa manila bay...
-water reservoirs (page 17)
-coastal road (page 17)

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY-OPERATIONAL PLAN FOR THE MANILA BAY-COASTAL STRATEGY (OPMBCS)
http://www.emb.gov.ph/mbemp/dloads/O...20ex%20sum.pdf

[rockyg]

eto Sir Ntprime ang Naic site na pwede pero ang approach ay galing ng mt. mariveles

[rockyg]

If Naic is the site....

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by rockyg

If Naic is the site....

Maganda ang Naic site: malawak siya at hindi masyadong mabundok... pero may mga hills na malapit din, right? Plus pwede bang pahabain ang Airport Expressway all the way to the west coast of Cavite?

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Maganda ang Naic site: malawak siya at hindi masyadong mabundok... pero may mga hills na malapit din, right? Plus pwede bang pahabain ang Airport Expressway all the way to the west coast of Cavite?

Naic, Cavite looks ideal, topography wise, but definitely not distance wise or infrastructure wise. It will work if the new airport will be built in 7-10 years or more, definitely not if in the next 3-5.

If Cavite is chosen over Bulacan for the new PAL airport you will see a real estate boom down there. The same thing goes if Bulacan is chose. Anywhere the airport goes, the properties nearby will see a jump in their value.

[rockyg]

Originally Posted by NTprime

Naic, Cavite looks ideal, topography wise, but definitely not distance wise or infrastructure wise. It will work if the new airport will be built in 7-10 years or more, definitely not if in the next 3-5.

if Naic site, they have to fast-track the CALA construction (compared with the existing NLEX in case of Bulacan site). Another is the approach of the runway, I think Bulacan have better orientation.

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by rockyg

if Naic site, they have to fast-track the CALA construction (compared with the existing NLEX in case of Bulacan site). Another is the approach of the runway, I think Bulacan have better orientation.

After reading the few posts on the Manila-Bataan expressway, the more I am in favor of Bulacan (at the location you were sketching) for the new PAL airport. It should really spur growth on the western side of Bulacan and make what is fishpond territory higher value.