MISC | What's your vision for a future airport?

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by NTprime

After reading the few posts on the Manila-Bataan expressway, the more I am in favor of Bulacan (at the location you were sketching) for the new PAL airport. It should really spur growth on the western side of Bulacan and make what is fishpond territory higher value.

If the location is in Bulacan, questions remain on how to deal with potential flooding issues, especially when typhoons pass by the region, because the area is quite notorious for flooding, given that it is close to the Pampanga River basin, a major catch basin for water coming in from higher elevations and nearby tributaries? Plus, how will PAL restore the natural habitat that may be lost due to airport development?

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

If the location is in Bulacan, questions remain on how to deal with potential flooding issues, especially when typhoons pass by the region, because the area is quite notorious for flooding, given that it is close to the Pampanga River basin, a major catch basin for water coming in from higher elevations and nearby tributaries? Plus, how will PAL restore the natural habitat that may be lost due to airport development?

Converting the fishponds to mixed development (including the airport) is the solution itself. First, if the Manila-Bataan Coastal Highway is built, then can build it dike style instead of the elevated highway style. Sure, more earth to be moved, but you can elevate the road, then compact the ground with "panambak" from construction projects, but leave exits for the tributaries to empty into the river and ultimately into Manila Bay.

Regarding your natural habitat, one thing I will say is that birds and their metal variety (planes) cannot co-exist in the same area. There is an existing area in Candaba where migratory birds go everytime they fly south from China for the winter. The birds can go there, not to the area of Plaridel (which is on the other side of NLEX compared to the Candaba bird area) where the airport may be built.

If the government is good at developing the area similar to what you have in JFK, then good. Other than that, we need to keep the birds as far away from the airport. And for the fishponds, we very well know that when floods happen, the owners lose their livestock. Which is the reason why some of them are selling their properties at half of what was the going cost.

[philippinearena]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

If the location is in Bulacan, questions remain on how to deal with potential flooding issues, especially when typhoons pass by the region, because the area is quite notorious for flooding, given that it is close to the Pampanga River basin, a major catch basin for water coming in from higher elevations and nearby tributaries? Plus, how will PAL restore the natural habitat that may be lost due to airport development?

Mura lang naman nilang nabili ang mga lupa. 100,000 per hectare. So kayang kayang magtambak ng katakot takot

Maliit ang 200M na puhunan para sa isang negosyanteng bigtime.

[rockyg]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

If the location is in Bulacan, questions remain on how to deal with potential flooding issues, especially when typhoons pass by the region, because the area is quite notorious for flooding, given that it is close to the Pampanga River basin, a major catch basin for water coming in from higher elevations and nearby tributaries? Plus, how will PAL restore the natural habitat that may be lost due to airport development?

If you were the Urban Planner tasked to design that area?

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by philippinearena

Mura lang naman nilang nabili ang mga lupa. 100,000 per hectare. So kayang kayang magtambak ng katakot takot

Maliit ang 200M na puhunan para sa isang negosyanteng bigtime.

Ganun? Talagang bargain price na ata ang lupa sa future area... Yet I still have some thoughts on the future of the area kasi kung reclamation yan, the long-term problem would be to deal with land sinking into the Bay because the area would be built as a reclamation area, and without a solid, stable surface below (except for cement and steel filings), then the tendency would be that the land area surrounding the airport and future mixed-use development can sink over time, even for just a few centimeters every 20 years or so. Building an airport over reclaimed land needs to be monitored everyday for any pressures from the Bay that could cause the surrounding area to sink over time...

I've got an idea on how to power the airport: can wave or tide be used and converted into energy, and that energy can power the entire airport? Or can the water found around the Pampanga River basin be treated and made into potable water for the residents and offices surrounding the airport? And can solar energy be harnessed to make the future Airport City (or Aerotropolis) be independent from the NAPOCOR grid so that it can function on its own, even when blackouts occur?

[theabe]

Originally Posted by rockyg

eto Sir Ntprime ang Naic site na pwede pero ang approach ay galing ng mt. mariveles

rockyg, malapit na dyan yun spot. isagad mo lang yun yellow rectangle mo (same measurement) pataas sa dagat. left side ng naic.

ayos ba yan lugar na yan para sa airport. ano ba ang advantage at disadvantage nyan.

[philippinearena]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Ganun? Talagang bargain price na ata ang lupa sa future area... Yet I still have some thoughts on the future of the area kasi kung reclamation yan, the long-term problem would be to deal with land sinking into the Bay because the area would be built as a reclamation area, and without a solid, stable surface below (except for cement and steel filings), then the tendency would be that the land area surrounding the airport and future mixed-use development can sink over time, even for just a few centimeters every 20 years or so. Building an airport over reclaimed land needs to be monitored everyday for any pressures from the Bay that could cause the surrounding area to sink over time...

I've got an idea on how to power the airport: can wave or tide be used and converted into energy, and that energy can power the entire airport? Or can the water found around the Pampanga River basin be treated and made into potable water for the residents and offices surrounding the airport? And can solar energy be harnessed to make the future Airport City (or Aerotropolis) be independent from the NAPOCOR grid so that it can function on its own, even when blackouts occur?

Nung nakaraang bagyo kasi ay maraming nasirang palaisdaan diyan kaya napilitang magbenta ng mura ang mga may-ari. Simula 2011 daw ay nagpakalat "daw" ng mga agents ang San Miguel diyan para mamili ng lupa sa Bulakan. Ayon ito sa mga taga Bulakan. May nakaPM din ako na taga Taliptip.


Diba may mga mayayamang bansa na nagdedevelop ng ganyan na tinambakan lang. Kung di ako nagkakamali ay Singapore.



Maiba ako ... Sino kaya yung contractor ng San Miguel para sa PAL? Sabi kasi ay South Korean Contractor. Hindi kaya sila rin yung contractor sa Ciudad de Victoria? Mura kasi kaya kinuha ng INC.

Philippine Airlines' planned international airport would likely be located in Bulacan, according to a CIMB report.

"The permanent solution for the congestion at Manila NAIA may ultimately come from a private sector proposal by San Miguel Corporation to the government to build a completely new airport on the outskirts of Metro Manila, in the province of Bulacan," CIMB said.

CIMB Group, which is a regional universal bank operating in high growth economies in Asean, recently bought part of the San Miguel group’s stake in Bank of Commerce.

The planned international airport is about 45 kilometers northwest of Makati City, and closer to Metro Manila than the Clark International Airport, which is 100 km from Makati, the report said.

"The Bulacan airport will also be linked to the Makati business district via a six-lane “skyway,” suggesting that access will be via an elevated highway in order to bypass Manila’s infamous traffic congestion," it added.

Ramon S. Ang, president of PAL and San Miguel had said the new airport will have four runways and will span 2,000 hectares.

"A formal submission to the Philippine government will be put through in early-2013, with construction planned to begin in the later part of 2013 together with a South Korean contractor," the Malaysian bank said.

Madali ang trabaho nila pag nagkataon. Iisang lugar lang

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by theabe

rockyg, malapit na dyan yun spot. isagad mo lang yun yellow rectangle mo (same measurement) pataas sa dagat. left side ng naic.

ayos ba yan lugar na yan para sa airport. ano ba ang advantage at disadvantage nyan.

While the topography of the area you are assuming is better than that of Plaridel, Bulacan, we still now have the problem of distance and road infrastructure to tackle. As I mentioned, there are no major road projects in the pipeline for the next 1-2 years there. Second, I drove that distance and it took me longer than I expected (almost 2 hours instead of 1 hour, and not even rush traffic hours). Third, it is more Naic then Ternate (which is mountainous). Or even Tanza would be a better choice as it is nearer.

But the biggest thing going against Cavite is time to complete the projects, not just the airport but especially the road infrastructure. San Miguel didn't mention anything about building toll roads there, the existing highway is only 2 lanes (with shoulders though), and there are choke points along the EPZA/Bacao Road, Antero Soriano Highway, and the Centennial Road. Not to mention that it is not San Miguel that owns the 10,000 hectares you are talking of (which I understand is in the Puerto Azul/Caylabne mountainous area). Sure, they can buy, but it will be more expensive to build everything compared to Bulacan where they have already investments in the nearby road infrastructure.

[fieldsofdreams]

Ang galing talaga nila: taking advantage of a typhoon and looking into wrecked fishponds to acquire land for San Miguel and PAL to build a brand new airport in Bulacan... Yet I wonder how many pumping stations would be needed to continuously pump water that can seep through the reclaimed land that will stand the new airport. It needs a huge flood insurance coverage to keep the airport safe should another typhoon hit the area and (hopefully) spare it from flooding or sinking. It is a massive piece of infrastructure that should be watched on a constant basis to keep it running smoothly and effectively.

Plus, another question: if the airport is to be built west of NLEX, then how will the areas between the proposed Manila-Bataan Coastal Highway and NLEX be developed? Will it be built Aerotropolis-style, or will it be built with lots of houses? I hope they plan for a lot of open spaces so that aircraft can depart and land with few obstructions.

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Ang galing talaga nila: taking advantage of a typhoon and looking into wrecked fishponds to acquire land for San Miguel and PAL to build a brand new airport in Bulacan... Yet I wonder how many pumping stations would be needed to continuously pump water that can seep through the reclaimed land that will stand the new airport. It needs a huge flood insurance coverage to keep the airport safe should another typhoon hit the area and (hopefully) spare it from flooding or sinking. It is a massive piece of infrastructure that should be watched on a constant basis to keep it running smoothly and effectively.

Plus, another question: if the airport is to be built west of NLEX, then how will the areas between the proposed Manila-Bataan Coastal Highway and NLEX be developed? Will it be built Aerotropolis-style, or will it be built with lots of houses? I hope they plan for a lot of open spaces so that aircraft can depart and land with few obstructions.

I posted the answer in the Clark thread. Two words: "polder" and Schiphol.

As for your aerotropolis - the area should be low rise. Skyscrapers over 500 feet tall have no place near an airport, or for this matter, on marshland/former fishponds.

[fieldsofdreams]

Yeah, I've seen it already... Dikes and careful reclamation development. It's a pretty unstable land to begin with, but with careful engineering and proper deployment of reclamation and flood mitigation technologies, then the airport could stand for a long time with minimal sinking... I'm just anxious though if and by how much the airport area can sink over time, especially with global warming being a phenomenon nowadays.

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Yeah, I've seen it already... Dikes and careful reclamation development. It's a pretty unstable land to begin with, but with careful engineering and proper deployment of reclamation and flood mitigation technologies, then the airport could stand for a long time with minimal sinking... I'm just anxious though if and by how much the airport area can sink over time, especially with global warming being a phenomenon nowadays.

Agree with your sentiment. Altitude is one thing that Clark has an advantage over any of the airports being considered for the new airport (even NAIA itself). But man has overcome nature to some extent with engineering marvels, although much is also being lost because man has abused development of his concrete habitat and also ruined the surrounding natural environment.

But Holland (especially North Holland) has a greater disadvantage in their land which is below sea level to begin with, compared to Bulacan. Much of the problems Bulacan are facing are man-made.

[fieldsofdreams]

That is true. That's why we need to look into the trade-offs first of choosing an airport site before laying down another bag of cement on the ground. It's like, Clark still has an advantage because it is already established and a lot of land area is available for future growth, while Bulacan could be closer to Manila but can be very expensive to work on a lot of reclamation, not to mention a potential loss of habitat and potential for sinking later on if the reclaimed area is not fully stable.

[NTprime]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

That is true. That's why we need to look into the trade-offs first of choosing an airport site before laying down another bag of cement on the ground. It's like, Clark still has an advantage because it is already established and a lot of land area is available for future growth, while Bulacan could be closer to Manila but can be very expensive to work on a lot of reclamation, not to mention a potential loss of habitat and potential for sinking later on if the reclaimed area is not fully stable.

But I still think it will take far much less than $10 billion (cost of the HSR to Clark) to reclaim land from the fishponds in Bulacan. Here's what the country sets to gain with Bulacan vs. Clark for the premier international airport:

Bulacan:

1. Land will be reclaimed, which will minimize flooding in the former fishpond areas.
2. Manila-Bataan Coastal Road will become more viable, thus:
3. Spurring growth west of NLEX and MacArthur Highway in Bulacan
4. Easy transition to the various infrastructure projects San Miguel (PAL airport proponent) has in the Bulacan/Northern Metro Manila area (e.g. LRT7, NLEX/SLEX connector road, Skyway Phase 3, etc.)

And of course, not to mention your $10 billion to build an HSR that will practically serve only the airport passengers, and one to three stops in between at the most (for commuters between MM and Angeles City).

Clark:

1. Less land reclamation or acquisition
2. Less prone to flooding
3. Runway is already there, so minimal start up time.

Biggest CON: Connectivity and travel time to Metro Manila which will mean poor ROI, smaller market served. Oh, not to forget the numerous studies since 1992 - a classic case of indecision and lack of strong will to face the challenges by nature and other circumstances normally beyond their control.

I am not worried about the engineering issues regarding reclamation. It has been proven that airports can be built properly even on former lakes (e.g. Schiphol). It will just take more money to ensure that the airport doesn't sink a few cm. every year.

[rockyg]

Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams

Ganun? Talagang bargain price na ata ang lupa sa future area... Yet I still have some thoughts on the future of the area kasi kung reclamation yan, the long-term problem would be to deal with land sinking into the Bay because the area would be built as a reclamation area, and without a solid, stable surface below (except for cement and steel filings), then the tendency would be that the land area surrounding the airport and future mixed-use development can sink over time, even for just a few centimeters every 20 years or so. Building an airport over reclaimed land needs to be monitored everyday for any pressures from the Bay that could cause the surrounding area to sink over time...

I've got an idea on how to power the airport: can wave or tide be used and converted into energy, and that energy can power the entire airport? Or can the water found around the Pampanga River basin be treated and made into potable water for the residents and offices surrounding the airport? And can solar energy be harnessed to make the future Airport City (or Aerotropolis) be independent from the NAPOCOR grid so that it can function on its own, even when blackouts occur?

me internet ka naman. research ka muna paano mag reclaim. actually "landfill" na ang dapat na tawag dyan sa Bulacan site.
here is a facts about reclaimmation and landfill...
one of examples here are Incheon Int'l Airport and Nagoya Int'l Airport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaimed_land

You didn't pay attention...di ba nilagay ko sa sketch ang Reservoir as buffer zone and will also serve as rainwater harvester ng boung airport ground and water treatment facilities? This will also serve as flood water holding area in times of calamity. Flood gates and pumping stations will control the in-flow/out-flow of the channel.

[philippinearena]

Originally Posted by NTprime

But I still think it will take far much less than $10 billion (cost of the HSR to Clark) to reclaim land from the fishponds in Bulacan. Here's what the country sets to gain with Bulacan vs. Clark for the premier international airport:

Bulacan:

1. Land will be reclaimed, which will minimize flooding in the former fishpond areas.
2. Manila-Bataan Coastal Road will become more viable, thus:
3. Spurring growth west of NLEX and MacArthur Highway in Bulacan
4. Easy transition to the various infrastructure projects San Miguel (PAL airport proponent) has in the Bulacan/Northern Metro Manila area (e.g. LRT7, NLEX/SLEX connector road, Skyway Phase 3, etc.)

And of course, not to mention your $10 billion to build an HSR that will practically serve only the airport passengers, and one to three stops in between at the most (for commuters between MM and Angeles City).

Clark:

1. Less land reclamation or acquisition
2. Less prone to flooding
3. Runway is already there, so minimal start up time.

Biggest CON: Connectivity and travel time to Metro Manila which will mean poor ROI, smaller market served. Oh, not to forget the numerous studies since 1992 - a classic case of indecision and lack of strong will to face the challenges by nature and other circumstances normally beyond their control.

I am not worried about the engineering issues regarding reclamation. It has been proven that airports can be built properly even on former lakes (e.g. Schiphol). It will just take more money to ensure that the airport doesn't sink a few cm. every year.

And I think mas makakakuha sila ng maraming passenger if malalapit sila sa isang tourist area. Ididevelop kasi talaga ang Bulacan ngayon at maraming project ang gagawin. Ididevelop pa yata ang angat water park. At maraming gagawing project sa Ciudad De victoria. Ang San Jose Del Monte naman ay patuloy sa pag asenso dahil sa MRT7. May SM mall naring itatayo sa Malolos. Iaangat ang mga products ng Bulacan sa hinaharap.

[fieldsofdreams]

Originally Posted by rockyg

me internet ka naman. research ka muna paano mag reclaim. actually "landfill" na ang dapat na tawag dyan sa Bulacan site.
here is a facts about reclaimmation and landfill...
one of examples here are Incheon Int'l Airport and Nagoya Int'l Airport.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaimed_land

You didn't pay attention...di ba nilagay ko sa sketch ang Reservoir as buffer zone and will also serve as rainwater harvester ng boung airport ground and water treatment facilities? This will also serve as flood water holding area in times of calamity. Flood gates and pumping stations will control the in-flow/out-flow of the channel.

Right... I'm just looking into the long-term scenario of the airport in case anything happens, especially during the typhoon season. I take your reservoir as a way to control the flow of water which will eventually head to pumping stations wherein water can either be processed into potable water or continue as raw sewage back into the Bay. I'm just curious about the cost of such undertaking because it needs to account for natural and man-made disasters, which the airport must withstand.

I have, though, a negative connotation of the word "landfill" as it evokes the scenario of Smoky Mountain, that's why I use reclamation as the word for the new airport. Plus, I think the infill areas can be developed as open space so that water can flow continuously through the complex which would allow it to be reused as potable water or be used to water the lawns.

[rockyg]

Originally Posted by philippinearena

And I think mas makakakuha sila ng maraming passenger if malalapit sila sa isang tourist area. Ididevelop kasi talaga ang Bulacan ngayon at maraming project ang gagawin. Ididevelop pa yata ang angat water park. At maraming gagawing project sa Ciudad De victoria. Ang San Jose Del Monte naman ay patuloy sa pag asenso dahil sa MRT7. May SM mall naring itatayo sa Malolos. Iaangat ang mga products ng Bulacan sa hinaharap.

isa pa bagong ecozone itong area

Originally Posted by rockyg

This area is also designated by Tourism Infrastructure and Enterprise Zone Authority (TIEZA) as new ecozones...

http://www.bworldonline.com/content....zones&id=49134

"The first two TEZs are “Ciudad de Victoria” in Bulacan and a second entertainment and casino complex in front of Terminal 3 of the Ninoy Aquino International Airport, he said.

Ciudad de Victoria, to rise in Bocaue, Bulacan, will be a P25-billion investment. It will be undertaken by entities of the Iglesia ni Cristo.

The zone’s 58-hectare territory will enclose the New Era University’s (NEU) “Philippine arena,” the EGM Medical Center, the NEU sports complex, and a new university campus. The Philippine Arena is being eyed to become the largest closed dome in the world, with a 50,000 seating capacity.

The contractor will develop infrastructure, facilities for accommodations, and a retail area where products of the local community, such as pastries, fireworks, jewelry, horticulture and furniture, will be sold.

For the other newly approved TEZ, Mr. Lapid said investors will put up another hotel and casino complex in front of NAIA Terminal 3. The investment will be at least $5 billion.

“The two TEZs are [projected to generate] close to a hundred thousand jobs, from the construction to operations,” he added.

The TIEZA follows the same concept behind the Philippine Economic Zone Authority (PEZA), which grants special benefits and incentives to investors in economic zones, Mr. Lapid said.

“RA 9593 has automatically [allowed] the coordination of the national and local government offices where the necessary permits and licenses are processed. We have created a ‘one-stop shop’ for investors, which makes [processing] easier,” he explained."

[philippinearena]

Originally Posted by rockyg

isa pa bagong ecozone itong area

I think itong mga products dito sa maliliit na store sa loob ng Ciudad ay ang iaangat na products ng Bulacan.


http://www.twoecoinc.com/2011/10/ciu...ine-arena.html
NSJBI will be responsible for the overall development of the zone, from the infrastructure to the provision of facilities for accommodations, and a retail area for the exposition of Bulacan's products in pastries, fireworks, jewelry, horticulture, furniture, among others.

Ciudad de Victoria thus creates a unique tourism experience, at the intersection of leisure, business, education and well-being, where people can travel not only to be entertained, but to learn, believe and succeed.



Parang sa Baguio na sikat sila sa peanut brittle, ube etc. Ganyan din ang gagawin sa Bulacan. Naiimagine ko tuloy yung baka sisikat na miniature ng Philippine Arena na pangdisplay sa house

[fieldsofdreams]

Is it possible for that arena to have a retractable roof so that it can operate as an outdoor arena and an indoor concert venue?