Oxford unveils $3-billion casino, convention centre proposal for downtown Toronto

[vid]

Having a point where they say "that's it" and dump all the inebriated people into the street is just asking for trouble. At least in Spain it happens when public transit is running. (I assume they start running transit before 6am.)

Thunder Bay's Casino only closes two or three times a week for in-depth cleaning and servicing.

[isaidso]

There should be no 'last call' at all.

[monkeyronin]

Originally Posted by vid

Having a point where they say "that's it" and dump all the inebriated people into the street is just asking for trouble. At least in Spain it happens when public transit is running. (I assume they start running transit before 6am.)

Of course, last call doesn't mean everything closes and everyone has to go home...

But yeah, the later/more non-existent a last call is, the more dispersed the crowds leaving are.

[JustinB]

Originally Posted by vid

Having a point where they say "that's it" and dump all the inebriated people into the street is just asking for trouble. At least in Spain it happens when public transit is running. (I assume they start running transit before 6am.)

Thunder Bay's Casino only closes two or three times a week for in-depth cleaning and servicing.

We have 24 hour transit in Toronto, and the cabbies will be happy with the extra revenue from drunk suckers.

[vid]

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

Of course, last call doesn't mean everything closes and everyone has to go home...

It does for the people who are only there to drink.

[crooked soul]

Originally Posted by isaidso

There should be no 'last call' at all.

I agree....


and then it should bleed into the rest of our city..
everything closes far too early - for a major city like ours..
it isn't booonie land.. so there should be a difference..
especially for a casino.. it should be 24hours.. if there is set hours- then I see no difference of it being like chuck e cheese.. or the playdium.. etc..
you are dealing with "real money" it is an adult establishment.. so it should be treated as such....
what if you are on a winning streak.. then suddenly - poof.. you have security forcing you out.. and if you object.. you'll get arrested..
I still think Exhibition grounds is theeee prime location for this.. it works on all levels... to me.. this layout is just an excuse to build more condos'' "residential units as they put it..." and oohh.. look.. lets throw a casino on the bottom of one of these building.. to build excitement and have a better chance of getting approved.. the whole thing looks tacky if you ask me..
for it being the first casino in Toronto.. you need something grander..something spectacular and really get the area thriving and have unlimited potential to future expansions.. Exhibition place is ideal...
MGM having interest is phenomenal - can you imagine having a massive structure - on the scale of Vegas- cause you know if MGM is involved they aren't going into it half-assessed. they will make it grand in scale fountains and all.. I can go on forever at how amazing it would be...
I think you all can agree with me on that one.. it would sooo rock!

[Mercenary]

I am just worried that due to the Casino that whole area could become a cesspool of drunks, prostitution, and other ills of society that is attached to gambling.

And besides who wants to go to a Casino in downtown anyways. People plan road trips with their friends and go to Niagara.

Its very weird to party near where you work.

[Taller, Better]

You can drink all night if you want to, but you have to go to an illegal booze can to do it!

[JustinB]

Originally Posted by Mercenary

I am just worried that due to the Casino that whole area could become a cesspool of drunks, prostitution, and other ills of society that is attached to gambling.

And besides who wants to go to a Casino in downtown anyways. People plan road trips with their friends and go to Niagara.

Its very weird to party near where you work.

Other than the obvious gabmling destinations, is there a thriving city with a casino in it's downtown core? I am not talking about cities like Detroit, or Sioux Falls.

I personally doubt this proposal is going to get off the ground, the idea of a park over the raill lands is being debunked because of the air-rights, and potential disruption to rail traffic.

[crooked soul]

Originally Posted by JustinB

I personally doubt this proposal is going to get off the ground, the idea of a park over the raill lands is being debunked because of the air-rights, and potential disruption to rail traffic.

the park itself is awesome.. just not in this location.. it looks out of place.. could be done elsewhere within the downtown core spread out..
and besides.. I think it is ridiculous that they even consider having a park atop the rail lands.. has anyone ever walked over the the ramp at Rogers Centre while the trains roll on by?... it is loud... and thumbling..
I don't think a park would be a peaceful place to go to while there are several disturbances felt and heard underneath - no matter how much they can disguise the barrier between rails and where the park begins..

also.. I might get flack for this.. but the rails lines are a part of our city.. it is quite awesome to see them go by in that area.. the visuals are cool.

[JustinB]

Originally Posted by crooked soul

also.. I might get flack for this.. but the rails lines are a part of our city.. it is quite awesome to see them go by in that area.. the visuals are cool.

Couldn't agree more. To me, world class cities have lots of surface rail, even if a lot of land is taken up.

[Taller, Better]

Originally Posted by JustinB

Other than the obvious gabmling destinations, is there a thriving city with a casino in it's downtown core? I am not talking about cities like Detroit, or Sioux Falls.

I personally doubt this proposal is going to get off the ground, the idea of a park over the raill lands is being debunked because of the air-rights, and potential disruption to rail traffic.

I've heard the "in the downtown core" argument a lot lately and am a bit perplexed by it. Why would a casino in the core be any more harmful than one that is slightly removed but not really far at all from downtown? Not referring to you, Justin, but in general I've seen it used mostly with the usual:
"No world class city has a casino in the downtown core", because "World Class Cities" like New York, Paris, London, etc... obviously all have casinos, so limiting the location to the downtown core allows for this rather sweeping statistic. I don't see why Toronto should not do something that has not been done in other cities out of fear that it is "different" to the accepted norm. Using the threat of something not being "World Class", to me, is the silliest objection imaginable.

[amgonzal]

Originally Posted by Taller, Better

I've heard the "in the downtown core" argument a lot lately and am a bit perplexed by it. Why would a casino in the core be any more harmful than one that is slightly removed but not really far at all from downtown? Not referring to you, Justin, but in general I've seen it used mostly with the usual:
"No world class city has a casino in the downtown core", because "World Class Cities" like New York, Paris, London, etc... obviously all have casinos, so limiting the location to the downtown core allows for this rather sweeping statistic. I don't see why Toronto should not do something that has not been done in other cities out of fear that it is "different" to the accepted norm. Using the threat of something not being "World Class", to me, is the silliest objection imaginable.

I agree. And I think historically Toronto has been a city where new things happen. I moved to this city 7 years ago and I hate to see it as a city 'like NY' 'like Chicago' 'like Sydney'. I think Toronto stands on its own name. First city with a stadium that was capable of closing its roof. First city to build a super tall communications tower. Most diverse city in the world. Toronto is Toronto and it shouldn't make decisions based on examples. I'd say Toronto is an example of innovation itself. We are the biggest city and leader in many areas in one of the most innovative countries in the world! Canada invented the IMAX for god's sake! Yes, that new technology that is providing millions of dollars to Hollywood producers.

As for a casino downtown, I really don't know. What I know is that I'd love to see this project raise up, that's what I know. And I also know the council shouldn't base their decisions based on what other cities are doing.

[Taller, Better]

We really should strive to set trends, not cower in fear because the larger more established cities have not done something yet.

If we take the casino away from downtown, we are also taking away all the casino specific tourists who then feed the surrounding bars,
clubs, restaurants. Clearly the casino consortiums are NOT interested in building out in the sticks. They have made this abundantly clear.
They do not want to get stuck up in Woodbine or in Markham, and will not invest their bucks up there.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Taller, Better

We really should strive to set trends, not cower in fear because the larger more established cities have not done something yet.

If we take the casino away from downtown, we are also taking away all the casino specific tourists who then feed the surrounding bars,
clubs, restaurants. Clearly the casino consortiums are NOT interested in building out in the sticks. They have made this abundantly clear.
They do not want to get stuck up in Woodbine or in Markham, and will not invest their bucks up there.

Agree 1000% on all counts.

[Epi]

Originally Posted by amgonzal

I agree. And I think historically Toronto has been a city where new things happen. I moved to this city 7 years ago and I hate to see it as a city 'like NY' 'like Chicago' 'like Sydney'. I think Toronto stands on its own name. First city with a stadium that was capable of closing its roof. First city to build a super tall communications tower. Most diverse city in the world. Toronto is Toronto and it shouldn't make decisions based on examples. I'd say Toronto is an example of innovation itself. We are the biggest city and leader in many areas in one of the most innovative countries in the world! Canada invented the IMAX for god's sake! Yes, that new technology that is providing millions of dollars to Hollywood producers.

As for a casino downtown, I really don't know. What I know is that I'd love to see this project raise up, that's what I know. And I also know the council shouldn't base their decisions based on what other cities are doing.

Frequently forgotten is Toronto was one of the first big cities in the world to ban smoking in bars, clubs and so on. As well, Toronto was one of the first places to allow gay marriage. I think we're generally a leader on global social norms.

[Toronto2008]

Originally Posted by Epi

Frequently forgotten is Toronto was one of the first big cities in the world to ban smoking in bars, clubs and so on. As well, Toronto was one of the first places to allow gay marriage. I think we're generally a leader on global social norms.

Finally..some positivity brings its way into the thread! Toronto kicks ass. Believe me, other cities beg to face the "problems" we have of growth, expansion and major capital investments. Go TO!!!

...continue...

[isaidso]

Toronto is progressive, but to be fair its Canada that's progressive. Smoking bans and gay marriage weren't Toronto firsts. Smoking bans in public spaces and the work place first happened in PEI. PEI was followed by New Brunswick, Nunavut, NWT, and Manitoba. Equal marriage became law nationally at the same time.

[monkeyronin]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Equal marriage became law nationally at the same time.

No, Ontario was the first to legalize it in 2003, then BC, Quebec, and the rest of the country save for Alberta, PEI, Nunavut, and the NWT followed suit, until it became national law in 2005. The first legally-recognized same-sex marriage in the world happened in Toronto.

[vid]

NWT was in the process of legalizing same sex marriage but stopped once it became inevitable that the federal law would pass and supersede their old laws.
Alberta and Nunavut are the most resistant to socially progressive rights, not sure what PEI's case is. Probably just because everyone there is old.

Pretty sure we had certain rights for same-sex couples since the late 1990s.