Oxford unveils $3-billion casino, convention centre proposal for downtown Toronto

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

No, Ontario was the first to legalize it in 2003, then BC, Quebec, and the rest of the country save for Alberta, PEI, Nunavut, and the NWT followed suit, until it became national law in 2005.

Alright, but it was Ontario not Toronto as has been suggested.

[vid]

Toronto pretty much is Ontario though. It isn't like the rest of this province has much of a say in anything.

[Taller, Better]

Originally Posted by isaidso

gay marriage weren't Toronto firsts.

Originally Posted by isaidso

Alright, but it was Ontario not Toronto as has been suggested.

Yes it was Toronto, and most emphatically so. This came about after decades of fighting by local activists and specific court challenges; the winning one being by a Toronto gay activist lawyer. Toronto was where the law was fought for and changed in the Supreme Court of Canada, and the first truly legal gay marriage in Canada was in.... get ready for this... Toronto. Alberta, and rather bizarrely Quebec immediately announced they would challenge the ruling. Quebec pulled out reasonably soon after once it realised how counter-productive such a move would be. Ontario was alone in gay marriages for pretty much a year at least if I remember correctly.
Most of the gay rights activist movement in Canada from the '60's on was centred in Toronto. had it not been for that push I can tell you right now we would likely still not have gay marriage in Canada; just one of those close-but-not-equal-civil-union-agreements like they have in the UK.

Ontario introduced both Sunday shopping and across the board Sunday government liquor outlet openings well before Quebec did. People are not in the habit of giving credit where credit is due when it comes to Ontario, but it is a much more progressive jurisdiction than most think.

Originally Posted by vid

Toronto pretty much is Ontario though. It isn't like the rest of this province has much of a say in anything.

or, in the case of gay rights activism it isn't like the rest of the province bothered working toward it much.

[AndrewJM3D]

Isn't the the casino thread?

[Taller, Better]

yes. And the very nanosecond we get any further news on the subject we can revert from the side chatter on the topic of Toronto leading trends instead of following.
Until that, we are pretty much just re-chewing the fat that was handed to us awhile back.

[Dmerdude]

Originally Posted by crooked soul

firstly.. sorry for making a new thread.. but I think it deserves it's own..
although, I am all for a Casino in Toronto..
I feel that Exhibition Place is the best choice location and it should be built there... having this Oxford proposal downtown by Rogers Centre just is soo cluttered and quite awkward - especially with all the concert/sports events - before and after the shows would be a nightmare to try to get into and out of..yes you can tell I am not a fan of this proposed location- no matter how they dress it up..
leave it to the Exhibition grounds.. there is sooo much more potential in that location.. it makes complete sense.. and would suit that area well.. and there would be a huge potential for expansion and have that area thrive beyond comprehension.




http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/10...ntown-toronto/

Oxford unveils $3-billion casino, convention centre proposal for downtown Toronto


The proposal by Oxford would see massive changes to Front Street.

Oxford Properties Group upped the ante on Friday among Toronto’s casino suitors with details of a $3-billion plus proposal for a swath of downtown real estate next to the Rogers Centre that would see black jack tables among a new hotel, residential, office space and a redeveloped Metro Toronto Convention Centre.

The group hired Foster + Partners, the architects behind Abu Dhabi’s Masdar City Development, Washington’s Smithsonian Institute and London’s Canary Wharf Underground Station, to sketch out a master plan for Oxford Place, located on 11 acres on the south side of Front Street, between Simcoe Street and Blue Jay Way.

The plan, contingent on authorities giving a casino the go-ahead, includes a new and expanded convention centre, new retail, office and residential space, 4,000 new underground parking spots and an “integrated casino and hotel complex.” The casino would make up less than 10% of the project, Oxford said in a press release, and would be funded, built and operated by the casino operator selected by the provincial government, should it do so. The company is also contemplating a new 5.5 acre park over the existing rail corridor.

“Although the casino itself represents less than 10% of the project’s area, it is a necessary and essential catalyst for the entire development and is a use that will be complementary to Toronto’s core in the way that we have designed and conceived it,” said Michael Kitt, Oxford’s executive vice president in Canada, in a press release.

The Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp. in March announced plans to build a new casino in greater Toronto, but says it will not put one in a city that does not want one. The issue has triggered considerable debate in Toronto, with people voicing their support and opposition at a public forum this week. Paul Godfrey, chairman of the OLG and also chief executive of Postmedia Network Inc., the parent company of the National Post, has said that downtown Toronto is OLG’s first choice. Caesars, MGM Resorts, Las Vegas Sands Corp., Woodbine Entertainment and Onex Corp. have all expressed interest, with Caesars in particular saying it considers the Metro Toronto Convention Centre as the best site. MGM prefers Exhibition Place.

“If the decision is made to have a casino in the City of Toronto, Oxford believes it can provide the best location and the ideal solution for all stakeholders,” Blake Hutcheson, president and CEO of Oxford Properties, said in the press release. “We have engaged an extraordinary team to develop the very best plan for this site and to transform this entertainment and commercial hub into a world class destination.”


The Oxford proposal.


The proposed location of the casino and hotel is on the western edge of the property. Renderings depict two hotel towers on that part of the land, with the casino at the base of one, and another two sky scrapers on the eastern side for commercial and residential. The company wants to phase construction of the new, state-of-the-art convention space before demolition begins. “The expanded convention centre would result in over 22 acres of contiguous exhibit space,” the press release said.

The company described its proposal as a “well-conceived private sector solution” that does not require public infrastructure or other funding.

“We would not take this on if we did not think we could deliver a bull’s eye solution to this complex issue, and we will work with all stakeholders to deliver an extremely positive result for the City of Toronto,” Mr. Hutcheson said.

Details of the project provided by Oxford:

11 acres with 7.35 million square feet (SF) of master planned mixed-use development

Elements:
* 1.1 million SF of Convention Centre
* 2.5 million SF of Office
* 1 million SF of Retail
* 600,000 SF of Residential
* 450,000 SF of Casino and Amenity Space
* 1.7 million SF of Hotel and Amenity Space
* 4,000 Parking Stalls On-Site
* 5.5 acres of public parkland, cooperating with neighboring stakeholders

Timeline:
Contingent on City of Toronto support and Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation operator selection process. Oxford will be in a position to submit a rezoning application shortly after the necessary decisions are made.

This looks too boring for such an iconic area of Toronto, right next to CN Tower and Rogers Centre, hope it won't get built.

[waldenbg]

Originally Posted by Dmerdude

This looks too boring for such an iconic area of Toronto, right next to CN Tower and Rogers Centre, hope it won't get built.

It's for massing. The buildings won't actually look like that. Its a world renowned architect. Wait for actual renders before you wish something isn't built.

[Mercenary]

Originally Posted by Dmerdude

This looks too boring for such an iconic area of Toronto, right next to CN Tower and Rogers Centre, hope it won't get built.

Its a big improvement on what is currently there.

[isaidso]

And only the 2 big office buildings are designed by Foster. I do hope the final design looks very much like these though. We don't have anything quite like it here in Toronto and have always liked them. They look gorgeous.

[Epi]

Well I'm glad someone prominent supports my position

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/edito...jan-horse-look

Oxford Properties’ plan for downtown Toronto has that Trojan Horse look

Published on Monday October 22, 2012
Oxford Properties Group The proposed $3-billion Oxford Place would be on the south side of Front Street, bounded by Simcoe Street and Blue Jays Way.
Ken Greenberg

The latest salvo in the attempt to shoehorn a “casino mile” into downtown Toronto comes in the form of an 4.45-hectare, 7.35-million-square-foot “hyper-urban project” at the corner of John and Front Sts. proposed by Oxford Properties Group.

The all-or-nothing offer promises to fix this part of the city and make us rich at the same time — if we just accept the casino as part of a package deal.

Getting something for nothing? Take a harder look; there is no free lunch here. What comes inside this alluring Trojan Horse?
.
.
.

[Dmerdude]

Originally Posted by waldenbg

It's for massing. The buildings won't actually look like that. Its a world renowned architect. Wait for actual renders before you wish something isn't built.

Maybe I'll be surprised but I really dislike twins.

[koolio]

To be fair, he didn't say anything that various other people haven't said already. Moreover, he didn't even bother to explain as to how this project is a "trojan horse". The developers are attempting to destroy the surrounding neigbhourhood? How would that benefit them?

Fact is that no rational person is naive enough to believe this is a "free lunch". Nothing is free in this world and certainly no one builds a $3 billion complex for free. However, just because it isn't free does not mean that it is not mutually beneficial. This does not need to be a zero sum game. Certainly this proposal is not without some concerns. However, to put our hands up and say "I give up. I can't figure out whether this will have a net benefit so I will just avoid making a decision forever" is lazy and detrimental to the city. Most decisions are not easy. It takes effort to fight inertia.

The way I see it, the primary concern is indeed a potential "holdup" issue that you or someone else had alluded to in this thread already. Depending on the timeline of their construction, it is indeed possible that at some point the developers can say that they are out of money and just barely finish the casino and the condos while skipping out on the park altogether. However, the city can put various checks and balances in place to avoid that issue. Aside from that, there are some smaller issues that I cannot recall off the top of my head but certainly there is nothing that is an instant dealbreaker.

[Taller, Better]

Well reasoned, koolio. Also I agree that the City can place checks on them pulling out. Surely they must have learned that lesson after having hoarding sitting up around the Dundas Square building site for a year or two because one of the main players lost interest in the project. In retrospect it is too bad that another developer hadn't stepped in and built a very tall tower with
a retail base instead of what went up.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Epi

Well I'm glad someone prominent supports my position

Aren't most of the articles in the media in opposition to this proposal?

[Jim856796]

The following existing structures are in the redevelopment ares: The Metro Toronto Convention Centre, the InterContinental Toronto Centre Hotel, and three Royal Bank of Canada buildings. If the Metro Toronto Convention Centre is to be redeveloped, I would expect any new building to be larger than the existing one. Existing InterContinental is dismantled = new one built as compensation.

[waldenbg]

An administrator at UT just posted this..

The following post is for fanboys only; 'scraper geeks. You know who you are. You will want to be alone when you read the rest of this post, unless you're into kinkier stuff. For those who aren't, you are advised to ask others to exit the room. Lock the door if you have a lock.

A source at City Hall intimately associated with this project has told me that three of the towers proposed here are taller than the Mirvish proposals, and the two to the east are proposed at… one thousand seventy feet each.

Have fun.

[Taller, Better]

**goes into seizures***

[chuguie]

Can't deal.

[Innsertnamehere]

C-c-c-c annnoott-t com-com-p-ute....

[ONE HUMAN]

And the key word is "proposed", but hey, they can't happen if they aren't first proposed.