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Old October 31st, 2008, 10:32 PM   #21
urbanfan89
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[QUOTE=urbanfan89;27414652]Cheaper is not necessarily better. Especially when the loads are high.


You've obviously never heard of bus bunching and large crowds. Keep in mind this is China, where ridership is magnitudes higher than anything in you're familiar with.

Perhaps every city should tear up their metro systems and install underground buses.

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50 per bus? Seated maybe, but good BRT systems have capacity of up to 250 people per bus.
Take a look at the size of the bus platform.

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The ones shown here arent that high, but they can easily be expanded to fit more people by making them double articulated.
Why not increase capacity further by putting in rails?

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And because headways are not a problem with buses....


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250 * 60 = 15,000 per hour
Of course this would be the upper end, but thats directly comparable with heavyrail.
Perhaps if you put massive amounts into customizing the buses, but trains can be obtained off the shelf.

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On top of that, I assume the buses are made in CHina, while rail vehicles would have to use extensive foreign technology.
China produces its own trains, in case you don't know.
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Old October 31st, 2008, 10:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
city should tear up their metro systems and install underground buses.
Careful now coz, a couple of springs ago, the English-language daily here featured a long article written by some planner who, column after column, elaborated as to why converting our third-longest fully-underground metro line into a tram line instead would be logical.
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Old October 31st, 2008, 11:01 PM   #23
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i like it but they should star building a metro system.
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Old October 31st, 2008, 11:16 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Too funny -- I hadn't heard of fare classes based on with or without air conditioning until browsing the link you're sharing.
It can be found in Singapore also.
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Originally Posted by urbanfan89 View Post
On top of that, I assume the buses are made in CHina, while rail vehicles would have to use extensive foreign technology.
China doesn't need foreign technology to produce trains. It even begin to export trains: the Tehran metro is an example.
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Old October 31st, 2008, 11:47 PM   #25
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Impressive system.

BRT is not just cheaper than a light rail, but it's more flexible.
If the density in surrounding is not high enough, supporting a fixed route rail may not be economically sound feasible; where buses can go into the heart of lower density area and serve the isolated community, but still providing the same speed of travel without any transfer of mode.
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Old November 1st, 2008, 03:59 PM   #26
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Would this BRT convert to urban railway again, as those bridges and stops' design look like metro instead of BRT?
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Old November 1st, 2008, 07:34 PM   #27
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that's the concept of BRT: running as bus but operating like subway.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 08:34 AM   #28
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What's the ****en point? With gas prices the way they are (though they have been dropping), why the ****? Who's the ****en genius to come up with such a retarded idea? Let's just hope Xiamen municipal government eventually gets some sense drilled into them and converts it into an elevated rail. I mean are they serious? The system looks really nice too. What a waste. They better convert it soon!
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 09:38 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by big-dog View Post
that's the concept of BRT: running as bus but operating like subway.
You misunderstood my question. I wanted to ask would this BRT convert to metro/subway in the future, as this infrastructure seems to be a metro instead of BRT at the beginning.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 12:23 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jserradell View Post
In this web:
http://www.whatsonxiamen.com/news_msg.php?titleid=3905


We can read this:


2) BRT 1 Interchange

BRT 1 Interchange starts from No.1 Port and ends at Wenxing Dong Rd (Qianpu), it has 17 bus stops. Its length is 18.7kms and takes about 50mins per route one way.

The assigned route is:
The No.1 Port -- Kaihe Rd Crossing -- Hubin Xi Road -- Douxi Rd -- Bailuzhou Rd -- Hubin Zhong Rd – Houdaixi -- railway station – Mingfa -- Dongpu Rd -- Jinshang Rd -- Agricultural Science Institute -- Conference & Exhibition Bei Rd -- Conference & Exhibition Nan Rd -- Wenxing Dong Rd (Qianpu).


BUT I ONLY FIND 15 STATIONS!!! Is there any error in this?


From Port to New Xiamen Station: 20 or 21 stations?
From Port to Qianpu: 17 or 15 stations?
From Airport to Xike: 9 stations

From Port to Jinshang I understand it is a shared section. (11 stations?)

Then, I think there is more than 30 stations. Can you explain this, please?

Maybe I am wrong and I have misunderstood your post...

Thank you very much for your help.
I got the info of "30 stations" from here:
http://www.chinabrt.org/en/cities/xiamen.aspx
The data might be out of date.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 12:26 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkth View Post
You misunderstood my question. I wanted to ask would this BRT convert to metro/subway in the future, as this infrastructure seems to be a metro instead of BRT at the beginning.
sorry. it think it's not easy to convert it into a light rail, the BRT elevated road can have some sharp turns and the carrying weight capacity is different either.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 02:20 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmunkey888 View Post
What's the ****en point? With gas prices the way they are (though they have been dropping), why the ****? Who's the ****en genius to come up with such a retarded idea? Let's just hope Xiamen municipal government eventually gets some sense drilled into them and converts it into an elevated rail. I mean are they serious? The system looks really nice too. What a waste. They better convert it soon!
That's not a waste, that's logical. If u have not enough money to build a metro rail then u build metro bus.
It's not retarded but smart idea, cuz it allows ppl to move fast and comfortable in the city.
If they need it and get financement - they will convert it (if that's possible in that case) - but if they wont reach the very high ridership they won't convert. That's smart! Waste would be to build metro if it would ride almost empty.
Don't blame them. They have teir reasons, im sure.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 02:37 PM   #33
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Quote:
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sorry. it think it's not easy to convert it into a light rail, the BRT elevated road can have some sharp turns and the carrying weight capacity is different either.
with pre-planning, all these light rail constraints could have been accounted and constructed in the initial bus running system. take the pavement out and put the track in when the time comes.
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 07:42 PM   #34
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wow, very impressive developments in Xiamen.
Awesome. that's where my great-grandparents came from
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Old November 2nd, 2008, 07:59 PM   #35
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It was not the fault of the municipal government. They presented a metro bill to the municipal congress, but the cynical legislators threw it out. Automobil industry was also a factor. Xiamen is the seat of the famed (at least in China) King Long Bus.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 12:25 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by leo_sh View Post
It was not the fault of the municipal government. They presented a metro bill to the municipal congress, but the cynical legislators threw it out. Automobil industry was also a factor. Xiamen is the seat of the famed (at least in China) King Long Bus.
King Long bus also operates in other countries including Malaysia...so it is becoming famous

Cheers, m
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 07:52 PM   #37
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that's the concept of BRT: running as bus but operating like subway.
Alright, but you gotta admit that its safety's compromised coz of its overly-elevated-busses-on-the-loose. It does look impressive but the system like it is really shouldn't have been commissioned into service along the earth-shattering Pacific Rim of Fire.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 08:28 PM   #38
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Alright, but you gotta admit that its safety's compromised coz of its overly-elevated-busses-on-the-loose. It does look impressive but the system like it is really shouldn't have been commissioned into service along the earth-shattering Pacific Rim of Fire.
First, Xiamen is outside the Pacific Ring of Fire and it isn't on any fault line either. The chance that Xiamen is going to have a damageable scale earthquake is very low. Second, these structures have to be designed and constructed to withstand such damageable scale earthquake even the chance is very low.

If there is going to be an earthquake, I have no doubt the quake can be felt and/or disrupting traffic. But the chance the flyover is gonna come down is very low. Generalizing the statement you had made is like saying no bridges or elevated structures should be constructed.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 09:00 PM   #39
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The chance that Xiamen is going to have a damageable scale earthquake is very low.
"very"?!

I wrote that it was "along" it, not inside it; besides, wasn't Beijing itself jolted enough by the far-off tremblings back in the Summer? The busway pillars themselves do appear sturdy-looking, mind you.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 09:53 PM   #40
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"very"?!

I wrote that it was "along" it, not inside it; besides, wasn't Beijing itself jolted enough by the far-off tremblings back in the Summer? The busway pillars themselves do appear sturdy-looking, mind you.
And the Ring of Fire is east of Taiwan and Japan. It's not "along" the China main coast, but along Taiwan and Japan. Most catastrophic earthquakes happen along the Ring of Fire, not inside it.

The quake in May shaken the whole China, not just Sichuan. But most of the damages are near the epic centre. Beijing in the north and Hong Kong in the south all felt the quake, but it didn't mean any earth motion can destroy structures. Although new structures may not be purposely designed to withstand catastrophic scale earthquake as those do in Tokyo along the southeastern China coast, but they are designed to withstand the strong typhoon wind which hit the coastal area numerous time every year. Earthquake (away from the epic centre) and heavy wind generate similar wavy loading on a structure. Thus these buildings can withstand heavy wind load as well as earthquake at the same time.
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