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Old May 2nd, 2009, 08:19 PM   #81
rheintram
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Obviously you don't care about the environment and passenger comfort, Falubaz. Thank god more reasonable people do.
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Old May 2nd, 2009, 10:42 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rheintram View Post
Obviously you don't care about the environment and passenger comfort, Falubaz. Thank god more reasonable people do.
Obviously i do care, but i care about ppl as well, who need to move from one place to another, and BRt gives this chance, cheap and fast.
And as for environment, every kind of public transport is 'green' coz it needs less energy than private cars. It's bullshitting when they say "buses are diesel-monsters" and rail-transport is the only 'good'. Every mass transit is good, both for city and environment.
As for comfort - new buses are very comfortable, i'm using them every day.
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 01:04 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz View Post
Who cares about "over 10mln cities"?
Why r u trying to force thes 10mln? 2 or 6mln are big cities as well.
Besides BRT is expanding, it's still 'new idea'. Wait few years and u will see BRT as main transportation in ur 'over-10' cities (Lagos is constructing BRT and with its ca. 10mln it's pretty big, isnt, it? Johanesburg another 6-7mln is getting right now it's first BRT)
The problem to find such city that fits to ur wishes is, that they already have metros, but if the BRT idea were known few years back - i bet some of them would have had more BRt than metros nowadays.
But it doesnt matter now. The important thing is, that some open-minded ppl see the chance for their cities to improve urban transport in a fast and cost effective way, which is good for the citizens.
The Bogota BRt can carry up to 24.000 passangers per direction per hour! This makes it a powerful alternative for trams, and fits between normal buses and metro , allowing to spare some nice amount of money (instead of building costly trams), so a well organized city can make it on a new way. If Xiamen passanger flows will rich the BRT limits, tehy can convert it to real heavy metro, but maybe there will be no need, so they can save their money and invest it otherwise to make the live better for citizens. sounds logical, doesnt it?



Ok so the best BRT system in the world Bogota carries 2,850,000 passengers per day including feeder lines...well cities like Mumbai (which have more than 10 million people) have 6 million people riding just the railways everyday! Add to that a couple more million taking public buses everyday...

How do you expect BRT to work in big cities which need to serve around 8 million people everyday when the world's best BRT serves only 2.8 million people?

A BRT system will never be able to replace the metro . Yes, BRT is a great feeder system and is really good for small-medium cities, but for big cities, BRT needs the help of the Metro because buses will never be able to carry as many people as a train!
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 03:19 PM   #84
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Not agree. Depends on the city, it's teritorial structure, the main passenger flows, density and its infrastructure. In some cities u can efficient use only BRT in other ones metro is needed.
U can never see cities as a one pattern.

Bogota rides 'only' almost 3mln coz there are no more ppl tehre. u can't expect 10mln ridership in a town of 100.000
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Old May 20th, 2009, 05:16 AM   #85
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BRT is popular in places like Jakarta, Bogota, and Laos because those cities don't have enough money to build a rail system (because the national government is cheap) so they do the next best thing which is BRT.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 06:20 PM   #86
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Not agree. GRT is being built also in so called rich countries, like France (Nantes-instead of tram - ligne 4 is BRT line, Toulouse, Paris-agglo, Marseilles), England (Ofsord county), Spain (Castello, Vallencia, plans also for Madrid), Canada (Vancouver, Ottava, Quebec), States (Boston, Cleveland, LA, LV), Japan (Nagoya) to mention just few of them.

This is some kind of legend, that BRT is only for poor ones.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 07:12 PM   #87
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Nantes' primary system is a tramway, only one line is a BRT. Paris has Métro, RER, transilien and trams as the main mode of transportation (Mobilien BRT is only a small part). Toulouse has a Métro, RER and is building a tramway and I didn't hear about any BRT projects there. Marseille has a Métro and extensive tramway network - again I don't know about any BRT there.

I could go on with the rest of your list, Falubaz. Truth is, no major western city relies on BRT. If it exists at all, it's just a minor part of the whole system. The main mode of transportation is always railways.
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Old May 20th, 2009, 07:52 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falubaz View Post
Not agree. GRT is being built also in so called rich countries, like France (Nantes-instead of tram - ligne 4 is BRT line, Toulouse, Paris-agglo, Marseilles), England (Ofsord county), Spain (Castello, Vallencia, plans also for Madrid), Canada (Vancouver, Ottava, Quebec), States (Boston, Cleveland, LA, LV), Japan (Nagoya) to mention just few of them.

This is some kind of legend, that BRT is only for poor ones.
To correct the North American Cities:

Ottawa is building a comprehensive LRT system, in which BRT will play a complimentary role. Ottawa already has an extensive BRT system, that is currently at capacity. Portions of the BRT will be converted to rail.

I am assuming you Gatineau when talking about Quebec. The Rapidbus system has yet to be built, and portions have been cut out to save costs.

Vancouver already has a few "BRT" lines. One has been converted to rail(Canada Line).

In Boston, the Silver Line BRT is widely regarded as a total failure. The service that it provides is actually worse than previous service. The single, disjointed line cost over 1 Billion to build. The bus tunnel is widely reported to be leaking, and the roadway is so rutted, that buses are limited to 12mph in the tunnel. The surface portion is mostly in mixed traffic, will little segregation. The MBTA is attempting to build a second tunnel, that will connect the 2 disjointed portions, but the government rejected it.

The Cleveland Heartline BRT has been implemented successfully, and seems to be doing pretty well. Looks nice too. The $200 million price tag is questionable for the length of the line, and the ammenities provided.

The LA Orange Line is considered a success, however, the line reached capacity in only a few months. Some have questioned why the line was built as BRT, when the corridor was previously a rail corridor. Many believe this line should have been built as rail, as the corridor seems to justify it.

Las Vegas is pursing a Higher Quality Bus System. However, much of the system is expected to run in mixed traffic, so I cannot consider it BRT. It will use Europen Wright "Streetcar" vehicles.

In North America, Rhinetram is mostly correct. Las Vegas will be building system that will use only buses. The monorail is not considered a part of the transportation network.
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Old June 15th, 2009, 06:07 PM   #89
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In fact, Bogota's BRT can have a capacity up to 45,000ppdph with limited stops and express services.
This capacity nearly approached the London Underground's capacity.
For implementing limited stops and express services, BRT is easier that LRT because BRT doesn't require to build one more track at least. This also reflects BRT's flexibility.
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Old June 15th, 2009, 06:19 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
The LA Orange Line is considered a success, however, the line reached capacity in only a few months. Some have questioned why the line was built as BRT, when the corridor was previously a rail corridor. Many believe this line should have been built as rail, as the corridor seems to justify it.
The Orange line is not rail because ordinances were passed to disallow above ground rail transit in that area. The goal was to get a subway line instead....it backfired and we were left with BRT. Should have been LRT or HRT and maybe someday it will be.

LA also has metro and LRT lines to complement the BRT. Again, BRT is a minor part of the system.

Also, to correct and further about Cleveland: They have heavy rail subway/elevated metro as well as a light rail system. The BRT is a minor part of the transit puzzle.


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Last edited by tampasteve; June 15th, 2009 at 06:25 PM.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 12:24 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niknak View Post
Ok so the best BRT system in the world Bogota carries 2,850,000 passengers per day including feeder lines...well cities like Mumbai (which have more than 10 million people) have 6 million people riding just the railways everyday! Add to that a couple more million taking public buses everyday...

How do you expect BRT to work in big cities which need to serve around 8 million people everyday when the world's best BRT serves only 2.8 million people?

A BRT system will never be able to replace the metro . Yes, BRT is a great feeder system and is really good for small-medium cities, but for big cities, BRT needs the help of the Metro because buses will never be able to carry as many people as a train!
Individual lines in Bogota have tremendous capacity (45,000 ppdph on ONE LINE) - but the total network in Bogota is still incomplete - it is about 1/2 to 2/5 ths built. So until it is, we can't say how it is functioning. I do think that the original plans do not have (in my opinion) sufficient line density - the lines are still a far walk from many locations.

By adding line density they would make it even more convenient and disperse the ridership slightly. If Bogota had the same line density as Paris, or even Manhattan, they would easily meet their demand. One can built an equivalent line density using BRT for less $ than underground rail.

Also remember that not everyone commutes by vehicle. In a dense, properly-designed and urbanized city there can be 20-40% commuting by foot and bike. - In Copenhagen 36% of people ride bicycles to commute. In addition the youngest and oldest members of that 8 million probably don't commute.

image hosted on flickr


from: http://www.uncrd.or.jp/env/est/docs/...ion_to_BRT.pdf

Last edited by adrimm; June 16th, 2009 at 12:33 AM.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 12:31 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tampasteve View Post
The Orange line is not rail because ordinances were passed to disallow above ground rail transit in that area. The goal was to get a subway line instead....it backfired and we were left with BRT. Should have been LRT or HRT and maybe someday it will be.

LA also has metro and LRT lines to complement the BRT. Again, BRT is a minor part of the system.

Also, to correct and further about Cleveland: They have heavy rail subway/elevated metro as well as a light rail system. The BRT is a minor part of the transit puzzle.


Steve
Solid transit service can eventually generate enough ridership/demadn to easily justify consideration for underground. Vancouver managed it with regular and express buses (every 4 mins). If it is frequent and reliable no reason the orange line won't do the same.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 12:42 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinB View Post
To correct the North American Cities:

Ottawa is building a comprehensive LRT system, in which BRT will play a complimentary role. Ottawa already has an extensive BRT system, that is currently at capacity. Portions of the BRT will be converted to rail.

I am assuming you Gatineau when talking about Quebec. The Rapidbus system has yet to be built, and portions have been cut out to save costs.

Vancouver already has a few "BRT" lines. One has been converted to rail(Canada Line).

In Boston, the Silver Line BRT is widely regarded as a total failure. The service that it provides is actually worse than previous service. The single, disjointed line cost over 1 Billion to build. The bus tunnel is widely reported to be leaking, and the roadway is so rutted, that buses are limited to 12mph in the tunnel. The surface portion is mostly in mixed traffic, will little segregation. The MBTA is attempting to build a second tunnel, that will connect the 2 disjointed portions, but the government rejected it.

The Cleveland Heartline BRT has been implemented successfully, and seems to be doing pretty well. Looks nice too. The $200 million price tag is questionable for the length of the line, and the ammenities provided.

The LA Orange Line is considered a success, however, the line reached capacity in only a few months. Some have questioned why the line was built as BRT, when the corridor was previously a rail corridor. Many believe this line should have been built as rail, as the corridor seems to justify it.

Las Vegas is pursing a Higher Quality Bus System. However, much of the system is expected to run in mixed traffic, so I cannot consider it BRT. It will use Europen Wright "Streetcar" vehicles.

In North America, Rhinetram is mostly correct. Las Vegas will be building system that will use only buses. The monorail is not considered a part of the transportation network.
Vancouver BRT? Yeah right, in TransLink's dreams. B-Lines are express buses and it is simply misleading to call a glorified bus stop a "station".

The problem is that everyone is so keen to use they term they are applying it to systems that aren't. BRT in North America suffers from the most amorphous definition. Ottawa is (sort of), the Boston Silverline is a bus with an identity crisis (been there, rode that) the Silverline is totally inconsistent and bizzare, infrequent during rush hour, goes in mixed traffic, stupidly slow going into the tunnel.

Compared to international best practices, 95% of what we have in North America fails, it isn't geared towards convenience, speed, or comfort, but rather cost-savings. People here simply haven't been exposed to a good BRT so they can't imagine one could actually function - and I can say that becuase I *was* one of the naysayers too.
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Last edited by adrimm; June 16th, 2009 at 12:49 AM.
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Old June 17th, 2009, 02:28 PM   #94
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The Xiamen BRT is a really great solution for the city. It can easily be expanded with articulated or double-articulated buses if needed, and even to rail in the future.
So it is possible to adopt that BRT to a metro at a later stage by using the already existing headway without the need to tear everything down and built completely anew?

If thats the case, then it would be not so bad in my eyes.


I have to admit however that its mind boggling for a European like me that a "small" city like one with 3 mio inhabitants alone in its core area is too "small" for a metro. Vienna has half of that population and 5 metro lines, and a huge tram network, S-Bahn, and on top of that the bus lines. I know cities with one or two hundred thousand inhabitants and they have already a light rail system.

Of course, they might be wealthier, probably thats the point.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 02:31 AM   #95
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XIAMEN | Public Transport

Xiamen Metro is a planned metro system in the city of Fujian Province, China.

The first Line 1 with 31.5 km is planned to open in 2016.

Line 1, 2, and 3 are expected to be completed by 2020 with a total length of 75.3 km.

The master plan has a total of 6 lines with a total network size of 246.2 km.


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Old October 16th, 2012, 04:53 AM   #96
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Hope the new subway network can be well connected to the existing BRT lines.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 10:47 AM   #97
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Great update
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Old October 16th, 2012, 08:13 PM   #98
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Will that be a new system, or they will convert the existing BRT lines into a metro?
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Old October 16th, 2012, 08:37 PM   #99
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First 3 lines are new lines, but Line 4 is going to go were the BRT is today by just adding tracks.
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Old June 7th, 2013, 08:55 PM   #100
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42 Dead, 33 Injured in Xiamen BRT Fire

Forty-two people died and 33 others were injured after a bus burst into flames on an elevated bus lane in Xiamen City in southeast China's Fujian Province on Friday evening, authorities said.

http://english.cri.cn/6909/2013/06/07/189s769102.htm
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