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Public Space Squares, parks and other public areas in the city



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View Poll Results: If you create a city, how much of it would you like to use for open spaces or parks?
None! I don't want any parks! 0 0%
Between 1 and 10% 3 12.50%
Between 11 and 20% 3 12.50%
Between 21 and 30% 8 33.33%
Between 31 and 40% 3 12.50%
Between 41 and 50% 1 4.17%
I am all for it -- more than 50%! 6 25.00%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old October 21st, 2012, 03:27 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Ideally, 50% to 2/3 of the total area of a city would be parkland. Parks would act like natural barriers establishing different clusters bysectioned by transportation routes (urban highways, subways, monorails) but establishing buffer zones that break continuity and create clusters. Like a mosaic.

Urban plazas are nice as long as they are kept empty and have something monumental about that, without clutter such as food stands or else.
Really? Half to 2/3 of a city's area as parkland? Hmmm, that would mean a challenge for planners: how best to use the remaining land available for development if such figures are used to parks and open space. I mean, open spaces would be great, but to consist of 2/3 of a city's area would mean a challenge of creating compact buildings that would blend harmoniously with city parks, plazas, and a nearby forest.
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Old October 22nd, 2012, 01:25 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post

I wonder though which kind/s medians would qualify as open space indeed.
If it was going to be the medians, then the key thing is that it would have to be wide. But I think its better to have the space at the edges as people don't have to cross wide carriage ways to get there, and I hate the use of pedestrian under passes in all cases.
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Old October 22nd, 2012, 01:57 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by poshbakerloo

If it was going to be the medians, then the key thing is that it would have to be wide. But I think its better to have the space at the edges as people don't have to cross wide carriage ways to get there, and I hate the use of pedestrian under passes in all cases.
I understand what you're addressing. But why don't you like to use pedestrian underpasses? London Underground has a lot of them...
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Old October 22nd, 2012, 01:29 PM   #24
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I understand what you're addressing. But why don't you like to use pedestrian underpasses? London Underground has a lot of them...
They are an awful idea, in built up areas bridges are always a better idea as they are open top, bright, and safer for people. Under passes, are always (even the good ones) not nice a night.

Its always best to have a flat crossing with traffic lights, or a bridge if its a motorway
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Old October 22nd, 2012, 08:15 PM   #25
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Pedestrian bridges are always a great idea because it allows people to have views of the community or city they walk in, but it also attracts the homeless and criminal activity, especially when those are overcrowded with people walking.

As for a flat crossing with traffic lights, it would work, but you might want to consider how much time you would give for pedestrians so that traffic backup would not cause problems later for drivers.
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Old October 22nd, 2012, 11:52 PM   #26
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You always have to set priorities. In the 70ies, the prioriy was free car traffic. Many crossings were "improved" for pedestrians by establishing tunnel crossings, and while they were at it, at level crossings were often completely abolished.

Luckily, nowadays those underpasses that have no real legitimation as part or elongations of underground stations are themselves abolished or transformed to some clubs etc. and where they remain pedestrians are given the option again to cross at level.

As a pedestrian I can't say how much of an inconvenience non-level crossings are. I really prefer waiting at traffic lights than taking them.
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Old October 22nd, 2012, 11:56 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slartibartfas
You always have to set priorities. In the 70ies, the prioriy was free car traffic. Many crossings were "improved" for pedestrians by establishing tunnel crossings, and while they were at it, at level crossings were often completely abolished.

Luckily, nowadays those underpasses that have no real legitimation as part or elongations of underground stations are themselves abolished or transformed to some clubs etc. and where they remain pedestrians are given the option again to cross at level.

As a pedestrian I can't say how much of an inconvenience non-level crossings are. I really prefer waiting at traffic lights than taking them.
Really? What makes you think level crossings are better than pedestrian overpasses, bridges, or underpasses?
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 01:16 AM   #28
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Pedestrians are as citizens as the ones driving cars and should have no preemptive priority.

An extremely well lit (think of something like a hospital ER corridor) underpass with cameras and motion sensors can be safer and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, improve the throughout of people on foot and on vehicles.

Cities like Montreal and Houston have large underground network for pedestrians, and they are a major hit drawing passengers on the dozens of thousands while living ground level for all sorts of vehicles, preventing jaywalking etc.
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 01:18 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Really? What makes you think level crossings are better than pedestrian overpasses, bridges, or underpasses?
There is a long pedestrian precinct in the peripheral but dense working class district Favoriten in Vienna. On one point there is a street crossing. which has a traffic light regulated pedestrian crossing and at the same time, an even fairly open underpass, even barrier free. (It is connected to a subway station but as an extension somewhat)

Barely anyone is taking that underpass, even though it is safe and not really dirty. People rather prefer to wait at the traffic light.

Why? You don't need go down one level and then up again, probably you are effectively not even much slower. The underpass is considered an unnecessary hassle.


Of course things are different if the pedestrian crossing is either impossible (highway, railway) or outright hostile towards pedestrians. The problem remains however that underpasses are very prone to deterioration unless they are under heavy maintenance, like is often the case with subway tunnels.

I am not a general opponent o bridges, underpasses etc either. Where you have existing level differences and bridges etc actually make the path more direct, instead of more indirect.
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Last edited by Slartibartfas; October 23rd, 2012 at 01:32 AM.
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 01:28 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Pedestrians are as citizens as the ones driving cars and should have no preemptive priority.
I was not even talking of priority, merely about level crossing, like car traffic. Longer more complicated ways for pedestrians would be putting car drivers above pedestrians. Are you proposing a preemptive priority for car drivers?

Quote:
An extremely well lit (think of something like a hospital ER corridor) underpass with cameras and motion sensors can be safer and, MORE IMPORTANTLY, improve the throughout of people on foot and on vehicles.
That costs a lot and does not change the most basic problem: it is much more inconvenient to use an underpassing than simply crossing at level at green, if pedestrians are not discriminated in the crossing design towards car traffic.

Quote:
Cities like Montreal and Houston have large underground network for pedestrians, and they are a major hit drawing passengers on the dozens of thousands while living ground level for all sorts of vehicles, preventing jaywalking etc.
Houston ... a city known for its great pedestrian modal split ..
Its such a success that there are incredibly many cities with a vast underground tunnel system. They were the wet dream of 70's city planners but mysteriously they remained that almost everywhere.
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 05:18 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Pedestrian bridges are always a great idea because it allows people to have views of the community or city they walk in, but it also attracts the homeless and criminal activity, especially when those are overcrowded with people walking.

As for a flat crossing with traffic lights, it would work, but you might want to consider how much time you would give for pedestrians so that traffic backup would not cause problems later for drivers.
Makati CBD for example has an extensive network of pedestrian walkways.

Here are some pictures that I took,







But since Makati is Metro Manila's main CBD, there is security around it so there hardly any criminal activity or homeless. Plus it is in a pleasant area.
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Old October 23rd, 2012, 05:24 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manila-X

Makati CBD for example has an extensive network of pedestrian walkways.

Here are some pictures that I took,

But since Makati is Metro Manila's main CBD, there is security around it so there hardly any criminal activity or homeless. Plus it is in a pleasant area.
I definitely remember those walkways myself indeed! That's the one close to The Landmark in Makati City, in which yes, it's secured. But it doesn't help to recall other overpasses too, particularly in Cubao and Crossing.
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