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Old April 28th, 2014, 06:27 AM   #681
437.001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post







Looking at these maps, some questions arise:

1) How much has the ridership changed on the Porto-Guimarães services since the gauge change? Is there any direct service Guimarães-Lisbon?

2) Why can´t the authorities see the potential of a gauge change and reopening of the lines Livraçâo-Amarante and Régua-Vila Real? (no need to answer this one )

3) How´s the service on the Algarve line (Lagos-Tunes-Faro-Vila Real de Santo António)? Is there any upgrade plan or idea there?

4) Has there ever been any passenger service on the line between Ermidas-Sado and Sines? Is there any potential for such a service (to Lisbon, I assume) in the future?

5) Which are the prospects for the West Line (the one through Caldas da Raínha and Leiria) and the Lamarosa-Tomar branch line? Any chance of upgrade there?

6) What about the upgrade between Covilhâ and Guarda? Is it definitely cancelled, the works stopped, and the line closed, or has it just been postponed?

Btw, thanks for the maps and graphics.
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Old April 28th, 2014, 02:50 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Guillarei, not Vigo.
Spain only needs to electrify the section between Valença and Guillarei, which is very short.
The rest of the line between Guillarei and Vigo was electrified in the 1980s.
Yes i also had that idea, but i wasn`t certain!!


Looking at these maps, some questions arise:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post

1) How much has the ridership changed on the Porto-Guimarães services since the gauge change?
They have change a lot!!

From this:

Source: wikipedia

To this:

Comboio Especial n.º 13841 (PTG) - Caniços por valeriodossantos, no Flickr
Old metric gauge bridge on the right, new iberian gauge on the left


CP UME 3432 vs CP 5601 | Guimarães | 01-05-2013 por Gil Ismael Monteiro, no Flickr
Commuter train on the left & Inter-city train to Lisbon on the right

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Is there any direct service Guimarães-Lisbon?
There is one voyage a day in each direction connecting directly Lisbon to Guimarães!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
2) Why can´t the authorities see the potential of a gauge change and reopening of the lines Livraçâo-Amarante and Régua-Vila Real? (no need to answer this one )
...............»»»» i think that politicians are the same in all parts of the world, and in a centralized country like Portugal, more far you go from the center of power [Lisbon], the worst it gets!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
3) How´s the service on the Algarve line (Lagos-Tunes-Faro-Vila Real de Santo António)? Is there any upgrade plan or idea there?
Not so good, except the part between Tunes & Faro that saw some upgrades because of the Pendolino service [Alfa Pendular] between Lisbon and Faro and some stantion!!

The actual government informed that it will make an investment of 55 M€ to modernized and electrified the line.

You can see a photo report a by a portuguese user in 2011 (click here)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
4) Has there ever been any passenger service on the line between Ermidas-Sado and Sines?
I think that it was 30/40 years ago!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Is there any potential for such a service (to Lisbon, I assume) in the future?
No, no, not in the distance future!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
5) Which are the prospects for the West Line (the one through Caldas da Raínha and Leiria) and the Lamarosa-Tomar branch line? Any chance of upgrade there?
The western line as lot of potencial, but for to that it is required a lot of investments, because the actual line passes far from the main towns alongside of the line and of the coast.

The actual government informed that it will make an investment of 135 M€ for modernization and electrification of the line!!

To the brach line of Tomar nothing is planned!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
6) What about the upgrade between Covilhâ and Guarda? Is it definitely cancelled, the works stopped, and the line closed, or has it just been postponed?
The actual government informed that it will make an investment of 80 M€ for modernization of the line between Entroncamento and Covilhã!!
Between Covilhã and Guarda they only renewed a section in the middle of the stretch because the EU paid 95%, i think!! The rest stopped a long time ago, even before the crisis.

The line between Covilhã and Guarda is closed for passengers!!

There no timetable in the near future for the continuation of the works!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Btw, thanks for the maps and graphics.
There are more (click here) relative for 2011

If you want to be up to date you can consult the 2015 network directory of REFER [portuguese: Directório da Rede 2015] (click here)!!
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Old April 29th, 2014, 01:53 AM   #683
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Thanks for the info.

More questions:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
They have change a lot!!

From this:

Source: wikipedia

To this:

CP UME 3432 vs CP 5601 | Guimarães | 01-05-2013 por Gil Ismael Monteiro, no Flickr
Commuter train on the left & Inter-city train to Lisbon on the right
I meant the ridership, the number of passengers. Has it increased much since the line was upgraded and changed the gauge?
(o que quero dizer é si o numero de passageiros aumentou muito ou nao?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
Not so good, except the part between Tunes & Faro that saw some upgrades because of the Pendolino service [Alfa Pendular] between Lisbon and Faro and some stantion!!

The actual government informed that it will make an investment of 55 M€ to modernized and electrified the line.
Ok. Right now, how many trains per day are there, between Faro and Vila Real de Santo António and between Faro and Lagos?
Is there any regional service north of Tunes? If there is any, where does it go, Lisbon, Setubal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
The western line as lot of potencial, but for to that it is required a lot of investments, because the actual line passes far from the main towns alongside of the line and of the coast.
So Caldas da Raínha and Leiria aren´t the biggest towns in the area?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
The actual government informed that it will make an investment of 135 M€ for modernization and electrification of the line!!
All of the line, or just parts of it?
How many trains per day it gets, right now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pai nosso View Post
To the brach line of Tomar nothing is planned!!
Is it in good state?
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Old April 29th, 2014, 01:38 PM   #684
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post

I meant the ridership, the number of passengers. Has it increased much since the line was upgraded and changed the gauge?
(o que quero dizer é si o numero de passageiros aumentou muito ou nao?)
The number of passenger increased alot. Between 2002 and 2010 the number increased from 300 thousand to 2 million. (Note : Between 2002 and 2003 there was bus replacement since the line was being converted at the time)

Here's the source and the numbers are on page 12 (Warning its in portuguese) :http://www.amp.pt/fotos/gca/estudo_d...1375436831.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post

Ok. Right now, how many trains per day are there, between Faro and Vila Real de Santo António and between Faro and Lagos?
Is there any regional service north of Tunes? If there is any, where does it go, Lisbon, Setubal?
48 trains per day.
Currently? Nope, but there was a regional from Barreiro/Setubal that would go to Faro however it was terminated in 2009 and now to go to Lisbon you need to get the Intercidades(InterCity) or Alfa Pendular(Pendolino Train) and the closest thing you get from a regional north of Tunes is the regional Beja - Vila Nova de Baronia however this regional is set in Alentejo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post

So Caldas da Raínha and Leiria aren´t the biggest towns in the area?
All of the line, or just parts of it?
How many trains per day it gets, right now?
Is it in good state?
As far I know nope but I can be wrong.
Some parts of the line but when comes to passing lines far away from town the Eastern line (Closed for passenger transport) is one of the main offenders.
21 Trains per day.
The line is in good state but the trains? Thats another story.
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Old April 29th, 2014, 09:22 PM   #685
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKF01 View Post
The number of passenger increased alot. Between 2002 and 2010 the number increased from 300 thousand to 2 million. (Note : Between 2002 and 2003 there was bus replacement since the line was being converted at the time)

Here's the source and the numbers are on page 12 (Warning its in portuguese) :http://www.amp.pt/fotos/gca/estudo_d...1375436831.pdf
I have no problem with Portuguese.

A very interesting document.
The data of both the passenger evolution in the Guimarães line after the gauge change and the plan for the Vouga line are ok.
I wonder wether this plan for the Vouga line will ever be put in practice...
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Old April 29th, 2014, 09:35 PM   #686
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Probably never.
Until 2020 the government will spend around 6000 million € in infrastructures and transports, guess how much of that money will go to the Volga line? About 3 million €, only for maintenance.
I guess this numbers tell everything.
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Old May 16th, 2014, 01:45 PM   #687
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Sintra Line (click here)

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Old May 16th, 2014, 01:46 PM   #688
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North Line (click here)


Lisbon - Santa Apolónia Station


Spanish RENFE Talgo 7C5 being tested in Portugal



CP 5605 + Talgo Renfe 7C5 por BrunoRendezVous, no Flickr


Renfe Talgo 7C5 por BrunoRendezVous, no Flickr


Talgo Renfe 7C5 por BrunoRendezVous, no Flickr


Talgo Renfe 7C5 por BrunoRendezVous, no Flickr
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Old May 16th, 2014, 11:31 PM   #689
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I tried the comboios years ago and the service was good, however, it was kind of shocking for me because the trains looked quite old, but they run pretty well, I think that here in Spain, we've lost a lot of money buying all those new Cercanías trains (Civias for example), I believe that the old series could have provided service for many years. That's my opinion.
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Old May 17th, 2014, 01:21 AM   #690
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Generación93 View Post
I tried the comboios years ago and the service was good, however, it was kind of shocking for me because the trains looked quite old, but they run pretty well, I think that here in Spain, we've lost a lot of money buying all those new Cercanías trains (Civias for example), I believe that the old series could have provided service for many years. That's my opinion.
Urban (cercanias) or Intercity ???


All of the portuguese trains are relatively new (only the regional trains and some of the IC coaches are refurbished, some of these date from as late as 1964-1977(yess 50yo trains still run here in daily basis))


Alfa Pendular ... 1998

IC rolling stock = 200km/h trains
Le5600 locomotives (same as renfe 252) 1992/3
Sorefame CORAIL coaches 1986
Sorefame REFURBISHED coaches 1967/8 <<< refurbished in 1994/5 ... all NEWER coaches from the 70's/80's were send for scrap or sold to argentina in the last 10 years and this crap (almost 50yo)was recently UPGRADED to run at 200km/h

Urban trains:
CP3500 (almost the same as renfe 450/451) 1998 ... being refurbished MLO
CP 2300/CP2400 1992-1997(?) ... being refurbished MLO
CP3400 ... 2000-2004 (same as civia?)
Cascais Line rolling stock ... anything goes built from 1957 to 1986 ... refurbished in 2000/2001

Regional trains:
CP0450 ... buit in 1964 ... rebuilt in 1994(?)
CP 2240 ... built in the 70's ... rebuilt in the 2000's



theres nothing more apart from some narrow gauge trains also built in the 90's ... so it's a recent fleet with low yearage.

Sidenote: RED material older than 21 years ... GREEN material newer than 10 years.
Sidenote2: CP urban trains are quite powerfull for their size (4 car trains have about 3100/3500KW or more) compared to other comuter trains around europe this is about 30/50% more power per car.
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Old May 17th, 2014, 01:37 AM   #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
I have no problem with Portuguese.

A very interesting document.
The data of both the passenger evolution in the Guimarães line after the gauge change and the plan for the Vouga line are ok.
I wonder wether this plan for the Vouga line will ever be put in practice...
The vouga line as is is a nonsense in the XXI century. end of discussion.

The only solution for that particular rail corridor is a completely NEW route in half of it. Either a Metro do Porto stile or Suburban/comuter railway would use very little of that railway IF one could use ANY at all in the suburban area north of Pinheiro da Bemposta. South of that is basically a matter of refurbishing the current layout in most places and regauging.
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"O País perdeu a inteligência e a consciência moral. Ninguém se respeita nem crê na honestidade dos homens públicos. O povo está na miséria. Os serviços públicos vão abandonados. A mocidade arrasta-se das mesas das secretarias para as mesas dos cafés. A ruína económica cresce o comércio definha, a indústria enfraquece. O salário diminui. O Estado é considerado um ladrão e tratado como um inimigo.
Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old May 17th, 2014, 02:41 AM   #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 437.001 View Post
Patience, then...
Thanks for the info.



Well yes, but we´re just talking about 12 km.
It´s just a matter of time, and I´d rather say that the same goes for the section of the Corgo line between Regua and Vila Real, which is short enough, too.

Both would need important upgrades of the track though, they´re much more bendy than the Guimarães line.

We are NEVER talking ONLY about 12km when we discuss about northern portugal ... NEVER EVER.

Offtopic. Just a couple of pictures form around Amarante station (from before the closure of the southern section):



South of Amarante the rails/trackbed looked like this (looking south from the bridge):


The SMALL bridge south of Amarante station is this precious work of art (wich if regauging ever happens will need replacement).


Amarante station (a LRV CP9500 can be seen):


Amarante station looking north(at the abandoned trackage) onto the road overpass (recent (as in less than 30/50 years old)


View from the railbed north of Amarante ... a long curve to the right into the WALL in the back(literally):


Next is the HOLE IN THE WALL (aka tunnel):


this is just an example of the rest of the route NORTH of that tunnel ... apart from a couple of BIG stone bridges it is just a long sucession of 45 degrees slopes with a dirt road at mid hill level all the way to Arco de Baulhe ...
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Neste salve-se quem puder a burguesia proprietária de casas explora o aluguel. A agiotagem explora o juro…"”
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Old May 17th, 2014, 04:32 AM   #693
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
The vouga line as is is a nonsense in the XXI century. end of discussion.

The only solution for that particular rail corridor is a completely NEW route in half of it. Either a Metro do Porto stile or Suburban/comuter railway would use very little of that railway IF one could use ANY at all in the suburban area north of Pinheiro da Bemposta. South of that is basically a matter of refurbishing the current layout in most places and regauging.
Can you explain a little more the reasons why north of Pinheiro da Bemposta the Vouga line is not valid for a regauge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
We are NEVER talking ONLY about 12km when we discuss about northern portugal ... NEVER EVER.
Why?
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Old May 20th, 2014, 01:13 PM   #694
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South Line (click here)

1-Ermidas - Funcheira [2003]


2-


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Source: http://www.portfolio.soaresdacosta.p...das-funcheira/
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Old May 20th, 2014, 01:14 PM   #695
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1-Section Quintans - Ovar [2005]


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4-

Source: http://www.portfolio.soaresdacosta.p...quintans-ovar/
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Old May 20th, 2014, 01:15 PM   #696
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Douro Line (click here)

Meão e Vale de Meão Tunnels- Vila Nova de Foz Côa [2007]

Source: http://www.portfolio.soaresdacosta.p...-vale-de-meao/
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Old May 20th, 2014, 01:17 PM   #697
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Minho Line (click here) - Trofa area

Trofa Tunnel » 1405m [2010]
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4-

Source: http://www.portfolio.soaresdacosta.p...ario-da-trofa/
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Old May 26th, 2014, 07:48 PM   #698
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Sintra Line (click here)

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Old May 27th, 2014, 03:50 AM   #699
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Nice!
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Old May 31st, 2014, 12:29 AM   #700
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Sado Line

Sado Line (click here)


Setúbal Station [2010]

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4-


5-


6-


7-

Source: http://www.elevogroup.com/pt/portfol...ao-de-setubal/
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