BUFFALO - New Buffalo Bills Stadium (72,000)

[Buffalomatt1027]

So where does all this "private money" come from???

and in less then 2 weeks freeman will show off more of his plan and hopefully some of his investors!

[scrat437]

Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027

So where does all this "private money" come from???

and in less then 2 weeks freeman will show off more of his plan and hopefully some of his investors!

The NFL had a loan program the Jets and Giants (which the Bills should be able to use)borrowed the money from as well as their own fianancial reserves(the Maras and Johnsons are capable financially). In any event, Speaker Sheldon Silver and Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno said no to using any NYS tax revenue for the stadium. As you can see and it shocked me quite frankly that MetLife stadium was funded entirely by the teams themselves.

[will101]

Originally Posted by scrat437

The NFL had a loan program the Jets and Giants (which the Bills should be able to use)

Yeah, but the Bills are going to have to get in line. The current G-4 program is loaning out $200 million, but the Niners got the first bundle (well, are still getting, but let's not quibble) and the Vikings will get the next $200 million. With the LA proposals apparently dead, the only other teams in dire need of a new home seem to be the Chargers and Raiders. Maybe the Jaguars.

[scrat437]

Originally Posted by will101

Yeah, but the Bills are going to have to get in line. The current G-4 program is loaning out $200 million, but the Niners got the first bundle (well, are still getting, but let's not quibble) and the Vikings will get the next $200 million. With the LA proposals apparently dead, the only other teams in dire need of a new home seem to be the Chargers and Raiders. Maybe the Jaguars.

I couldn't think of the name of the program but thanks for refreshing my recollection, yes when the Jets and Giants had their hands out, the NFL obliged. Of course it helps when two teams collaborate to split the cost and the owners of each team are well heeled financially, Woody Johnson the patriarch of the Johnson and Johnson and the children of Wellington Mara(the son of an accountant from the last days of the robber barons). They split the 1.6 billion by chipping in the 800 million apiece to build their palace. Im not thrilled the Jets are in New Jersey but NY State was adamant about not helping them(Silver and Bruno)! From the tone of your comment you aren't optimistic about the Bills getting help in the form of loans?

[eMKay]

I would like to see a "breakdown" of what just the stadium costs, then the museum and convention facilities, then the infrastructure. The NFL wouldn't be supporting the latter things I would think. A retractable stadium alone here would be probably half the 1.4 billion, maybe 700,00,000 to 900,000,000. If the NFL put in 200,000,000, the team another 200,000,000, and these mysterious "investors" (*which as I said, I suspect are the same groups ready to buy the team) put up 400,000,000 that's a stadium right there, the state putting up the infrastructure and the convention/museum stuff. There is already talk of a significant infrastructure change at the site, the removal of the skyway, the creation of a parkway along Ohio Street, and a pedestrian and rail lift bridge. Which would make access easier from the city and northtowns. There is also an unrelated debate about connecting interstate 90 with route 5 (which is what the skyway is for those not familiar with the site) .

For those not from here, the skyway is that huge elevated highway over the Buffalo River and the Ship Canal, it was built in the 50's when we had a huge volume of freighter traffic. Now we still have a good deal of traffic but not NEARLY what we used to have, so routing the traffic down Ohio street and installing a lift bridge would greatly enhance access to the outer harbor. Now I work basically under that skyway, less than half a mile from all the great pubs, restaurants, parks that are downtown. BUT in order to get to them I have to drive 2 miles south, get on route 5, drive 3 miles north, then negotiate a confusing and constrained series of exits. This is provided the skyway is open as in winter it closes frequently due to weather. There are no breakdown lanes so if one car stops on it during rush hour, it gets backed up instantly, and for miles. It is dangerous, inconvenient, and cuts off access to the outer harbor. Getting rid of it makes this project and a dozen others possible.

[eMKay]

Here are some videos of what's already been done, and what is under construction, none of this has anything to do with the stadium proposal other than it is all in the same area, and these give a good feel for what is around there.

This is already complete



This is 75% complete, around 3:30 "Trail North of Bell Slip Harbor" is where the proposed stadium would be

[Buffalomatt1027]

Originally Posted by eMKay

I would like to see a "breakdown" of what just the stadium costs, then the museum and convention facilities, then the infrastructure. The NFL wouldn't be supporting the latter things I would think. A retractable stadium alone here would be probably half the 1.4 billion, maybe 700,00,000 to 900,000,000. If the NFL put in 200,000,000, the team another 200,000,000, and these mysterious "investors" (*which as I said, I suspect are the same groups ready to buy the team) put up 400,000,000 that's a stadium right there, the state putting up the infrastructure and the convention/museum stuff. There is already talk of a significant infrastructure change at the site, the removal of the skyway, the creation of a parkway along Ohio Street, and a pedestrian and rail lift bridge. Which would make access easier from the city and northtowns. There is also an unrelated debate about connecting interstate 90 with route 5 (which is what the skyway is for those not familiar with the site) .

For those not from here, the skyway is that huge elevated highway over the Buffalo River and the Ship Canal, it was built in the 50's when we had a huge volume of freighter traffic. Now we still have a good deal of traffic but not NEARLY what we used to have, so routing the traffic down Ohio street and installing a lift bridge would greatly enhance access to the outer harbor. Now I work basically under that skyway, less than half a mile from all the great pubs, restaurants, parks that are downtown. BUT in order to get to them I have to drive 2 miles south, get on route 5, drive 3 miles north, then negotiate a confusing and constrained series of exits. This is provided the skyway is open as in winter it closes frequently due to weather. There are no breakdown lanes so if one car stops on it during rush hour, it gets backed up instantly, and for miles. It is dangerous, inconvenient, and cuts off access to the outer harbor. Getting rid of it makes this project and a dozen others possible.

My issue with your "breakdown" is: The Buffalo Bills will NEVER put up 200 Million nor could they afford that. But I can see the state kicking in 200 million. and i will AGREE with your "guess" that the stadium cost will only be 700-800 million. That seems right.

As for the skyway: Higgins has been attempting to get rid of it for years. Who knows what happens with it.

[eMKay]

Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027

My issue with your "breakdown" is: The Buffalo Bills will NEVER put up 200 Million nor could they afford that. But I can see the state kicking in 200 million. and i will AGREE with your "guess" that the stadium cost will only be 700-800 million. That seems right.

As for the skyway: Higgins has been attempting to get rid of it for years. Who knows what happens with it.

I think the Bills are perfectly capable of kicking in 200 Million, why would you think they can't? Ralph Wilson could build the entire thing himself if he wanted to, his net worth is 13 billion.

[will101]

Originally Posted by scrat437

I couldn't think of the name of the program but thanks for refreshing my recollection, yes when the Jets and Giants had their hands out, the NFL obliged. Of course it helps when two teams collaborate to split the cost and the owners of each team are well heeled financially, Woody Johnson the patriarch of the Johnson and Johnson and the children of Wellington Mara(the son of an accountant from the last days of the robber barons). They split the 1.6 billion by chipping in the 800 million apiece to build their palace. Im not thrilled the Jets are in New Jersey but NY State was adamant about not helping them(Silver and Bruno)! From the tone of your comment you aren't optimistic about the Bills getting help in the form of loans?

Oh, they would get the loans. My point is just the matter of timing. A few years back, the owners knew well in advance that they would lock out the players. So they completely drained the old G-3 account to give $300 million to MetLife Stadium. And when the lockout ended, and the new CBA took effect, the teams had to start building up the fund all over again. And the fact that the amount loaned has gone up from $150 million to $200 million also complicates things. So the money is trickling in, but the Niners are soaking up the first $200 million, and as soon as that is done the Vikings will step up. Buffalo can get in line as soon as they have final confirmation that the project will go ahead, but they will have to wait a little while to get money from the league. That's all.

[scrat437]

Originally Posted by will101

Oh, they would get the loans. My point is just the matter of timing. A few years back, the owners knew well in advance that they would lock out the players. So they completely drained the old G-3 account to give $300 million to MetLife Stadium. And when the lockout ended, and the new CBA took effect, the teams had to start building up the fund all over again. And the fact that the amount loaned has gone up from $150 million to $200 million also complicates things. So the money is trickling in, but the Niners are soaking up the first $200 million, and as soon as that is done the Vikings will step up. Buffalo can get in line as soon as they have final confirmation that the project will go ahead, but they will have to wait a little while to get money from the league. That's all.

I hope the Bills are able to construct the stadium. It would be nice to see the city with a hockey and football team downtown. The University of Buffalo would be able to play their games there too wouldn't they?

[eMKay]

Originally Posted by scrat437

I hope the Bills are able to construct the stadium. It would be nice to see the city with a hockey and football team downtown. The University of Buffalo would be able to play their games there too wouldn't they?

Sure they could play one or two if they had a big opponent, but not the whole season. Maybe if the program continues to grow and they get into a major conference they could play more, but at that point I see them just continuing to expand UB Stadium. It's more than big enough right now (29,000)

[Buffalomatt1027]

Originally Posted by eMKay

Sure they could play one or two if they had a big opponent, but not the whole season. Maybe if the program continues to grow and they get into a major conference they could play more, but at that point I see them just continuing to expand UB Stadium. It's more than big enough right now (29,000)

I doubt UB would ever play a game in the new stadium or even at the Ralph ..... the only way i see this is a UB Vs Syracuse game!

[Buffalo]

Originally Posted by eMKay

I think the Bills are perfectly capable of kicking in 200 Million, why would you think they can't? Ralph Wilson could build the entire thing himself if he wanted to, his net worth is 13 billion.

Ralph is not worth 13 billion, I think it's a little above a billion. Most of his worth is the Bills.

[en1044]

Originally Posted by eMKay

Why not? If Indi can do it, so can we. You say Buffalo can't host a Superbowl and you have "some reason" as to why? What a convincing argument.

As for using it as leverage for leaving, This proposal has nothing to do with the team, so no.

It also has little chance of happening as the team is committed to renovating the Ralph.

Nothing against Buffalo, and I'm not saying that they couldn't pull it off, but have you been to Indianapolis during a major sporting event? That city was literally designed to house, entertain and transport people during big events.

Comparing the two cities based on size doesn't work. They're apples and oranges.

[eMKay]

Originally Posted by Buffalo

Ralph is not worth 13 billion, I think it's a little above a billion. Most of his worth is the Bills.

Whoops, I got that wrong

[Buffalomatt1027]

russ brandon said on WGR this morning:

He denied the new stadium again BUTTTTTTT

He upped the amount of money needed for renovations from 200 mil to 400- 500 million.

If Pat freeman has a LEGIT group .... the Buffalo Bills should listen. As Bills CEO Russ shouldnt rule out anything. I still think there is hope ..... freeman needs to release more details first.

[ExWNY'er]

Originally Posted by Buffalomatt1027

russ brandon said on WGR this morning:

He denied the new stadium again BUTTTTTTT

He upped the amount of money needed for renovations from 200 mil to 400- 500 million.

If Pat freeman has a LEGIT group .... the Buffalo Bills should listen. As Bills CEO Russ shouldnt rule out anything. I still think there is hope ..... freeman needs to release more details first.

If the figure is 400-500 million then they should just build a new stadium. If they do pump that much into RWS then they need a lease that locks them in for 20 -25 years and makes it almost impossible for anyone to buy the team and move it.

[flashman]

With the NFL now in serious talks to move a franchise to London, England - either the new Olympic stadium or Wembley - plus relocating one or two existing franchises in LA's new stadium project(s), does anyone really think the NFL wants to keep franchises in struggling centres like Buffalo?

I get that the Buffalo Bills future can be self-determined, given the emergence of a bidder wealthy enough to take the franchise off of Ralph Wilson's hands - or his estate's hands.

But when Wilson passes on - a sooner-than-later event - the auction begins. Who in WNY has the combination of coin and commitment to local interests to keep the Bills in Buffalo when there are far more lucrative markets awaiting the potential new owner? If you were spunking out a billion or more to win this impending auction would you opt for one of two or three glamorous, teeming marketplaces or the dowdy, deserted dowager of the rust belt?

We should also consider one other thing. Hurricane Sandy has probably taken away any play-dough the state might have been able to offer to help finance a part of this project. State money is bound to be committed now, for many years, to real-life efforts to recover from the storm damage.

[JJG]

Originally Posted by flashman

With the NFL now in serious talks to move a franchise to London, England - either the new Olympic stadium or Wembley - plus relocating one or two existing franchises in LA's new stadium project(s), does anyone really think the NFL wants to keep franchises in struggling centres like Buffalo?

I don't know what's more ridiculous to imagine....

NFL in England (or ANYWHERE outside of America, for that matter) or the Bills in L.A.

[eMKay]

Originally Posted by flashman

With the NFL now in serious talks to move a franchise to London, England - either the new Olympic stadium or Wembley - plus relocating one or two existing franchises in LA's new stadium project(s), does anyone really think the NFL wants to keep franchises in struggling centres like Buffalo?

I get that the Buffalo Bills future can be self-determined, given the emergence of a bidder wealthy enough to take the franchise off of Ralph Wilson's hands - or his estate's hands.

But when Wilson passes on - a sooner-than-later event - the auction begins. Who in WNY has the combination of coin and commitment to local interests to keep the Bills in Buffalo when there are far more lucrative markets awaiting the potential new owner? If you were spunking out a billion or more to win this impending auction would you opt for one of two or three glamorous, teeming marketplaces or the dowdy, deserted dowager of the rust belt?

We should also consider one other thing. Hurricane Sandy has probably taken away any play-dough the state might have been able to offer to help finance a part of this project. State money is bound to be committed now, for many years, to real-life efforts to recover from the storm damage.

Your ignorance continues to amaze me, there are two groups based in Buffalo that will be bidding for the Bills, do the have the "coin" to win? You bet.

Your ignorant insults at a successful NFL market are getting tiring