daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > Classic Architecture

Classic Architecture Discussions on heritage buildings, monuments and landmarks.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 3rd, 2013, 02:45 AM   #321
RegentHouse
City Development Shitlord
 
RegentHouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,216
Likes (Received): 771

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
As we live in a global era with global flows of people, knowledge, ideas and goods, we should strive to create a completely de-localized architectural style where cities are defined by their economies, their knowledge production, their cultural output, not for their buildings. Thus, I welcome the trend of global cities becoming increasingly like one another when it comes to new buildings. The less one can tell "which city is this" looking at one specific building, the better. We should aim to erase quixotesque and idiosyncratic characterizations of cities in favor of global styles that can be plopped anywhere, with only adaptations concerning weather and the likes.
Please compare the following recent towers in global cities, and tell us again...

Shanghai:

http://globalinksnewswire.com/wp-con...-Rendering.jpg

London:


New York City:

ttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SMp5fO8kBlY...8-43-45-am.png


Quote:
Originally Posted by BarbaricManchurian View Post
Well I just visited the Bronx, Manhattan, and Brooklyn this weekend. Surely didn't see any lack of historical buildings anywhere. There's so many everywhere that the vast majority aren't even "preserved" or well-maintained, just part of the regular gritty urban fabric. Very few cities worldwide can compare.
If it's gritty and unpreserved, then it's troublesome, considering all the buildings in decent condition ripped down. Eventually, these lesser building will be "historical," and a whole generation will be lost.
__________________

erbse liked this post
RegentHouse no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 3rd, 2013, 03:44 AM   #322
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,457
Likes (Received): 21144

Quote:
Originally Posted by RegentHouse View Post

If it's gritty and unpreserved, then it's troublesome, considering all the buildings in decent condition ripped down. Eventually, these lesser building will be "historical," and a whole generation will be lost.
Had your mentality prevailed since late 19th century, mid-town Manhattan would have never get any skyscraper, all that would be left there would be low-rises of the pre-elevator era. Lower Manhattan would look like a late medieval lesser area with colonial buildings.

For the new to come, the old must go. That is my say. We should save a handful of old buildings for the sake of historical preservation, but let 99% of everything to jsut be replaced as part of life.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:30 AM   #323
BarbaricManchurian
来了就是深圳人
 
BarbaricManchurian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 5,501
Likes (Received): 6882

Quote:
Originally Posted by RegentHouse View Post
If it's gritty and unpreserved, then it's troublesome, considering all the buildings in decent condition ripped down. Eventually, these lesser building will be "historical," and a whole generation will be lost.
Doesn't matter. There's so many that tearing a few down here and there isn't a problem in New York. Some may miss the beauty lost but there is still ton left and who is to say contemporary and gritty historical can't be beautiful? Cities are living growing organisms that change. NYC has done an amazing job preserving vast areas of historical structures and there are vast amounts outside the historical districts too. NYC has plenty of "unique flair" left and is utterly unique on Earth.
BarbaricManchurian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:31 AM   #324
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

^ You're still missing the point. No one is talking about remote [censor] here.
This thread is mainly about the very central Midtown/Downtown grand buildings that have gone and are still vanishing - like Singer Building, Penn Station, and lately gems like Drake Hotel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
We should save a handful of old buildings for the sake of historical preservation, but let 99% of everything to jsut be replaced as part of life.
How about replacing you with some user who's aware of unimportant stuff like cultural roots, sustainability, urban proportions and, most of all, aesthetics?

Just for the sake of it, huh.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Last edited by musiccity; July 3rd, 2013 at 08:00 AM. Reason: poor language
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:37 AM   #325
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

These are the reasons I opened this thread, not your random brickboxes:


Old Penn Station, torn down in the 1960s.

Von: http://www.nycvintageimages.com/site...n-nyc-1410.jpg


Singer Building from 1908, once the highest skyscraper in the world. Torn down in 1968 to make way for the soulless gritty box of One Liberty Plaza.

image hosted on flickr

Singer Building (King's Views of New York) by NYCDreamin, on Flickr

Same here:
City Investing Building of 1908, just next to the Singer.

image hosted on flickr

City Investing Building (King's Views of New York) by NYCDreamin, on Flickr
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

CNB30 liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:39 AM   #326
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

And, again, Drake Hotel - torn down to make way for another gritty concrete box called 432 Park.



And these wonderful townhouses were vaporized as well:

http://wirednewyork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13337


Not even talking about Savoy Plaza, the historical Waldorf, etc.pp...

Or more recent examples as shown some pages earlier.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:42 AM   #327
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

NYC in 1932:


http://abload.de/image.php?img=nyc19323fu8t.jpg


Go tell me what you want, but this was about perfect. Absolutely wonderful.

NYC should have continued to develop Art Deco, Art Nouveau and Expressionism
into organic shapes soaring into the sky.
Too bad the zoning law vanished in post-war times.
Damn those modernists taking away sunlight from the streets and beauty from the buildings!
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

AnOldBlackMarble, zwischbl, Pod° liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:43 AM   #328
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

30s again:

"Cathedrals of Commerce"
image hosted on flickr

From Warner Quinlan's dock, Long Island City. March 20, 1932 by cobravictor, on Flickr
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:44 AM   #329
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

40s:
image hosted on flickr

Lower Manhattan Skyline by H.A. Dunne & Co., New Milford, CT, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

ca. 1934 - Midtown Manhattan Skyline. Aerial View. by cobravictor, on Flickr
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

AnOldBlackMarble liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:45 AM   #330
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

image hosted on flickr

Samuel H. Gottscho - New York City views. Midtown skyline from Central Park at 85th Street. April 16, 1931. by cobravictor, on Flickr

Essentially Gotham.
image hosted on flickr

Samuel H. Gottscho - Midtown Manhattan & Empire State building at Dusk, 1930s by cobravictor, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

Samuel H. Gottscho - Midtown Manhattan view from McGraw-Hill building, New York. October 9, 1931. by cobravictor, on Flickr
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:46 AM   #331
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

Let's not forget about the wonderful newspaper row to the left here,
that had make way for another stupid streetramp (1915 photo):

image hosted on flickr

Brooklyn Bridge East River by H.A. Dunne & Co., New Milford, CT, on Flickr
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

AnOldBlackMarble liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:47 AM   #332
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

Hotel Manhattan 42nd St., 1904 - still with a tram!


http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...8585&page=1153
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:48 AM   #333
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

Madison Square, 1920s - today a spoiled ensemble because of some stupid modernist boxes:

image hosted on flickr

Madison Square and East 27th Street by H.A. Dunne & Co., New Milford, CT, on Flickr
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

CNB30 liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 04:50 AM   #334
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

I'm not saying "ah the good ol' times". I'm saying: we could be even way better than that today.

But with modernism, we pretty much stopped celebrating aesthetics in architecture.
Instead, we chose to provoke, to f*ck our cities and to stop building for generations to come.

Will we ever build marvels like this again?


Source & HD: shorpy.com


Of course the lovely townhouses right of Woolworth were torn down to make way
for some boxy brutalist monster. Shouldn't come as a surprise, huh.
Just like the main post office to the left.

Oh, and Singer and City Investing in the back. Actually, half of this photo is gone today.
And you didn't even encounter a war in NYC. No shite.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥

Chimer, Manitopiaaa liked this post
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 05:12 AM   #335
TimothyR
Ike
 
TimothyR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Born in NYC, Living in Boston
Posts: 1,272
Likes (Received): 2089

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
As we live in a global era with global flows of people, knowledge, ideas and goods, we should strive to create a completely de-localized architectural style where cities are defined by their economies, their knowledge production, their cultural output, not for their buildings. Thus, I welcome the trend of global cities becoming increasingly like one another when it comes to new buildings. The less one can tell "which city is this" looking at one specific building, the better. We should aim to erase quixotesque and idiosyncratic characterizations of cities in favor of global styles that can be plopped anywhere, with only adaptations concerning weather and the likes.


Are you serious? I love the individuality of cities and countries. I don't want them to become even more similar to each other than they already are.

It is that kind of attitude that destroyed the wonderful old Penn Station - an architectural masterwork unique to the spirit of New York City and brother to Grand Central. It was the destruction of a beloved building and symbol




http://flavorwire.files.wordpress.co..._station1.jpeg





http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Y_exterior.jpg


And THIS is the horror that replaced it. It looks just like every other modernist piece of junk built since the war all over the world.

It doesn't even deserve a name. It is not architecture. It is just a thing with a lot of doors. It is even more disgusting inside.





https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...n_entrance.jpg


Is this what you want?
__________________

“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

“The meaning of earthly existence lies not, as we have grown used to thinking, in prospering but in the development of the soul.”
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

"We are more closely connected to the invisible than to the visible"

-Novalis

CNB30, AnOldBlackMarble liked this post
TimothyR no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 05:30 AM   #336
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

Yes, that's what he wants. Our beloved modernist troll.

Anyway, to anyone his opinion. I just have a feeling Suburbanist is only looking to annoy people like you and me, while he mostly fails at it.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 05:39 AM   #337
sbarn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC & Bay Area
Posts: 1,222
Likes (Received): 991

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
^ You're still missing the point. No one is talking about remote [censored] here.
This thread is mainly about the very central Midtown/Downtown grand buildings that have gone and are still vanishing - like Singer Building, Penn Station, and lately gems like Drake Hotel.
I actually think you're missing the point. If you think the unique flair of New York were grandiose buildings from the late-nineteenth / early-twentieth centuries (many of which were spectacular architecturally), you don't know much about the city. Its as simple as that. The "remote [censored]" are just as much a part of New York as your beloved palaces.

I agree that there have been some tremendous losses, however mourning the loss of 1930s vistas and skyline is kinda ridiculous - there isn't a major city in the world that looks just as it did 80 years ago.

Last edited by musiccity; July 3rd, 2013 at 08:01 AM. Reason: poor language
sbarn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 06:07 AM   #338
sbarn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC & Bay Area
Posts: 1,222
Likes (Received): 991

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Madison Square, 1920s - today a spoiled ensemble because of some stupid modernist boxes:

image hosted on flickr

Madison Square and East 27th Street by H.A. Dunne & Co., New Milford, CT, on Flickr
Most of what stands in the Flatiron District in this photo still stands today.

image hosted on flickr

Joseph Campanella
sbarn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 06:42 AM   #339
BarbaricManchurian
来了就是深圳人
 
BarbaricManchurian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 5,501
Likes (Received): 6882

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
I actually think you're missing the point. If you think the unique flair of New York were grandiose buildings from the late-nineteenth / early-twentieth centuries (many of which were spectacular architecturally), you don't know much about the city. Its as simple as that. The "remote cluster****s" are just as much a part of New York as your beloved palaces.

I agree that there have been some tremendous losses, however mourning the loss of 1930s vistas and skyline is kinda ridiculous - there isn't a major city in the world that looks just as it did 80 years ago.
New York's "unique flair" is its unique urban form which isn't found anywhere else on Earth. Dense gritty brick walk-ups which are found everywhere in all parts of the 4 urban boroughs (never visited Staten Island). The architecture is nice but not the focal point as opposed to a city like Boston. The extreme vibrancy and huge numbers of people everywhere are what matter more, with the buildings more of a backdrop than the main attraction. The boroughs are extremely dense extensions of Manhattan well served by the subway, not "remote [censored]". Even if Manhattan was completely leveled places like the Bronx and Brooklyn are "New York" as all [censored]. And Manhattan is really well-preserved too. Unfortunately some true gems were lost (I would agree about Penn and Singer) but the minor historical buildings being demolished today are a small drop in the sea of late 19th/early 20th century buildings that is New York.

Last edited by musiccity; July 3rd, 2013 at 08:02 AM. Reason: poor language
BarbaricManchurian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2013, 06:47 AM   #340
BarbaricManchurian
来了就是深圳人
 
BarbaricManchurian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Worcester
Posts: 5,501
Likes (Received): 6882

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Of course the lovely townhouses right of Woolworth were torn down to make way
for some boxy brutalist monster. Shouldn't come as a surprise, huh.
Just like the main post office to the left.

Oh, and Singer and City Investing in the back. Actually, half of this photo is gone today.
And you didn't even encounter a war in NYC. No shite.
That's not remotely Brutalist. Ugly Modernist for sure but Brutalism is raw concrete Orwellian style. I actually like it for government and university buildings.

And what is with the ridiculous concern over small townhouses? That kind of townhouse exists everywhere in New York. They're literally everywhere in Manhattan and Brooklyn. Complaining about the loss of grand historical buildings I can get but not these small New York townhouses, no matter what nice decoration they have.
BarbaricManchurian no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
nyc photos

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu