daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Forums > Architecture > Classic Architecture

Classic Architecture Discussions on heritage buildings, monuments and landmarks.



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old August 8th, 2013, 10:59 AM   #401
hordak1975
Registered User
 
hordak1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 610
Likes (Received): 253

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Hysterically wild generalization, that assumes not only this course of events, but assumes that essentially, anything old is automatically superior than what is new, just because it's old.
The fate of the Bancroft Building isn't sealed yet, but of course, it's assumed it is to meet the predetermined assumption that NY doesn't care about its old buildings.
Admittedly, that's a system that has flaws, as every system of landmarking would have in a city that is as focused on commerce as NY. I just think it's very important to understand the role of zoning in this discussion as it somehow has gone unmentioned, and seems to very quietly preserve huge swaths of the city.
Maybe RegentHouse just doesn't want to understand that NYC's authorities are not tearing down any old building: come on, this discussion is becoming pointless...
hordak1975 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old August 8th, 2013, 02:26 PM   #402
Subsequence
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 198
Likes (Received): 50

...........

Last edited by Subsequence; March 8th, 2017 at 04:28 PM.
Subsequence no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 8th, 2013, 05:31 PM   #403
CNB30
centralnatbankbuildingrva
 
CNB30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New York (Brooklyn)/Richmond/Philadelphia
Posts: 2,575
Likes (Received): 804

Quote:
Originally Posted by RegentHouse View Post


At least the replacements are often more architecturally appealing than some wooden carpenter house, and of higher density and consistency with the neighborhood. If Chicago was demolishing its Michigan Avenue buildings fronting Grant Park for more university dorms, or was "preserving" them by turning the former office and hotel space into such undignified uses, I would agree 100%.
I agree that maybe the carpenter houses can go, but a huge number of fine brick Victorian homes in places like Lincoln park, and the east village (just to name a few) have found themselves @ the hands of the wrecking ball.

I have to agree that stuff like this can go



but I have a huge problem with this being destroyed for some bloated looking suburban Mchouse

__________________
High speed rail=real energy independence!

A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. Itís where the rich use public transportation

Feel The Bern #2016

erbse, Raf124, nomarandlee liked this post
CNB30 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 02:33 AM   #404
socrates#1fan
Registered User
 
socrates#1fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,605
Likes (Received): 1318

Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
Hysterically wild generalization, that assumes not only this course of events, but assumes that essentially, anything old is automatically superior than what is new, just because it's old.
It is an oversimplification to assume things improve with time. Architecture is a prime example of this. Although the engineering element of it has improved a great deal, it has aesthetically declined at an alarming rate.

It does not assume that anything old is better, but it does assume that one is willing to look at the past honestly. In many ways we are superior, while in many ways we've declined. It's complexity at its best.
Quote:


I'm not sure who's doing the teaching, but just for continuity you've made another huge generalization which is nice to see.
How so?
__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

"I donít know what it is about Hoosiers, but wherever you go there is always a Hoosier doing something very important there."-Kurt Vonnegut

erbse liked this post
socrates#1fan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 02:46 AM   #405
RegentHouse
City Development Shitlord
 
RegentHouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,216
Likes (Received): 771

Quote:
Originally Posted by hordak1975 View Post
So buildings of little ornamentation are bad... wow...
Um... no, considering I said:
Quote:
I admire International Style, unless you're talking to socrates#1fan. Classical architecture prior to Art Nouveau is still far superior. While there are nice buildings from said period, the consistent past replacements with Art Deco wedding cakes and International Style boxes with giant plazas is redundant in an uninspiring way.
The replacements for the Drake Hotel and Western Electric Building are inferior in every way, if not plain terrible. 7WTC is a good example of Neo-Modernist architecture, but even too many copies of that in one city would be boring.

Quote:
Again, it's just your opinion... if NYC had built only classical buildings it would have been just a Paris' copy... thanks God it didn't happened.
Sorry, but I didn't realize Paris had any buildings remotely high-rise at the time, apart from the Eiffel Tower (which is a structure).


Quote:
London has already destroyed several Victorian buildings... and there are few middle-ages buildings left.

So, not only you haven't visited NYC, you also haven't visited London..
I'll admit I've only been to NYC twice, and both times I only visited Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn and maybe Queens, but I've only been to London a mere eight times dating back to the Iron Lady.

Quote:
Maybe RegentHouse just doesn't want to understand that NYC's authorities are not tearing down any old building: come on, this discussion is becoming pointless...
Of course NYC's authorities are not doing the demolition, but the Landmarks Commission continues authorizing the destruction of many beautiful buildings, while saving less worthy ones. The Bancroft Building's preservation should be prioritized over, let's say this. Why the hell is 140 Broadway listed? It wasn't even threatened.
__________________

erbse liked this post

Last edited by RegentHouse; August 11th, 2013 at 05:29 AM.
RegentHouse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 02:58 AM   #406
yankeesfan1000
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,235
Likes (Received): 560

Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates#1fan View Post
It is an oversimplification to assume things improve with time. Architecture is a prime example of this. Although the engineering element of it has improved a great deal, it has aesthetically declined at an alarming rate.
In your opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates#1fan View Post
How so?
Because you said, Most people (save a few architectural circles) find the replacement of traditional structures with glass boxes and modernist nightmares to be criminal. That's why they have to teach people to "appreciate" such structures. You shouldn't have to be taught to find a building beautiful anymore than you should be taught that your dinner is delicious when really it is vile.

Most people is a generalization. And you fail to define what traditional even means. To different people that means different things. If you grew up in an ex Soviet state, traditional means something different than if you grew up in Paris. Not saying ones better than the other, and I can probably guess what you mean, but there are too many loose ends in that sentence for me.

I think you and I, and most people on this forum would agree what general styles we would like to see landmarked, and what general styles could get the axe, but there is just too much opinion in this thread that's presented as fact, I couldn't resist.
__________________

hordak1975, Vertical_Gotham, CNB30 liked this post
yankeesfan1000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 9th, 2013, 10:25 AM   #407
hordak1975
Registered User
 
hordak1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 610
Likes (Received): 253

Quote:
Originally Posted by RegentHouse View Post
Sorry, but I didn't realize Paris had any buildings remotely high-rise at the time, apart from the Eiffel Tower (which is a structure).
Did I talk about high-rises?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RegentHouse View Post
I'll admit I've only been to NYC twice, and both times I only visited Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn and maybe Queens, but I've only been to London a mere eight times dating back to the Iron Lady.
Wow... that's explain a lot of things... and confirm that you don't know NYC very well.
Anyway, in one of your previous post you called the buildings along the High Line "excrements" (with the exception of Frank O. Gehry's one)... Let me guess, you haven't seen the High Line, haven't you?

Last edited by hordak1975; August 9th, 2013 at 11:01 AM.
hordak1975 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 10th, 2013, 07:10 PM   #408
musiccity
Retired Mod
 
musiccity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 18,088
Likes (Received): 15099

Did some light cleaning in this thread, lets try and keep things civil please
__________________
ďTravel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.Ē

-Mark Twain
musiccity no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2013, 09:58 PM   #409
Rev Stickleback
Registered User
 
Rev Stickleback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,107
Likes (Received): 1925

Quote:
Originally Posted by hordak1975 View Post
London has already destroyed several Victorian buildings... and there are few middle-ages buildings left.
So, not only you haven't visited NYC, you also haven't visited London..
Most of the middle ages buildings were burned down in 1666. A huge number were also bombed out of existence during WWII.

It's true though that destruction of old buildings is not a new thing, as many seem to think. London's city gates, as well as the historic London Bridge, were all demolished to ease traffic congestion.

Mind you, mistakes of the past really should be treated as warning, rather than a blueprint. I think the "no to modern buildings" idea can be a little over-zealous at times, but is often hard to shake off the idea that modern architects don't care what people think. Their vision overrides everything.

Then again, London has many building that are much older than people realise. There are plenty of buildings dating from the 1700s, but because they opted for flat roofs, rather than gabled one like in Amsterdam, people don't notice them as much.
__________________

CNB30 liked this post
Rev Stickleback no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2013, 02:45 PM   #410
hordak1975
Registered User
 
hordak1975's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 610
Likes (Received): 253

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev Stickleback View Post
Then again, London has many building that are much older than people realise. There are plenty of buildings dating from the 1700s, but because they opted for flat roofs, rather than gabled one like in Amsterdam, people don't notice them as much.
I know, but I was talking about Middle-Age buildings.
hordak1975 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2013, 07:56 PM   #411
socrates#1fan
Registered User
 
socrates#1fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,605
Likes (Received): 1318

Quote:


Because you said, Most people (save a few architectural circles) find the replacement of traditional structures with glass boxes and modernist nightmares to be criminal. That's why they have to teach people to "appreciate" such structures. You shouldn't have to be taught to find a building beautiful anymore than you should be taught that your dinner is delicious when really it is vile.

Most people is a generalization. And you fail to define what traditional even means. To different people that means different things. If you grew up in an ex Soviet state, traditional means something different than if you grew up in Paris. Not saying ones better than the other, and I can probably guess what you mean, but there are too many loose ends in that sentence for me.
How is it a generalization? The VAST majority of new houses whether designed by architects or by the residents themselves are overwhelmingly based on traditional styles. The VAST majority of the aesthetics within the homes of most are based on traditional styles. They are based on the organic and relaxed flow of ornamentation that soothes the human spirit.

The people of the former Soviet union would recognize very well the traditional architecture of their land, built on a long tradition of ornamentation and influence from both the Byzantines, native, and more Western influences. Not surprisingly, traditional architecture in Paris is built on many of the same principles. A building upon tradition and a need for ornamentation.

Traditional architecture in the specific context of NYC is the architecture based on the long tradition of Western civilization. It is based on the human need for ornamentation and a natural and organic environment. It is not constricted by the prohibitive limits of modernist architecture. You exaggerate the "loose ends" for the sake of your argument.


You know very well what I speak of.
Quote:

I think you and I, and most people on this forum would agree what general styles we would like to see landmarked, and what general styles could get the axe, but there is just too much opinion in this thread that's presented as fact, I couldn't resist.
There is too much assumption that modern architecture is or ever was considered to be on the same level as the art deco tower or the Greek temple. When an opinion is in line with fact that makes some uncomfortable, they are quick to dismiss it as the blabber of common people spewing their uneducated "opinion".
__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

"I donít know what it is about Hoosiers, but wherever you go there is always a Hoosier doing something very important there."-Kurt Vonnegut

Sweet Zombie Jesus liked this post
socrates#1fan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2014, 08:22 AM   #412
RegentHouse
City Development Shitlord
 
RegentHouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,216
Likes (Received): 771

Bumped, in light of this abomination.
RegentHouse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2014, 05:24 PM   #413
Hed_Kandi
Registered Usurper
 
Hed_Kandi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,285
Likes (Received): 12612




__________________

Vertical_Gotham, TowerVerre:) liked this post
Hed_Kandi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2014, 05:43 PM   #414
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

Wow, they're tearing down the Mayfair for such a bland glass blooper?

WTF is wrong with NYC?


http://www.emporis.com/building/701-...rk-city-ny-usa
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 21st, 2014, 06:31 PM   #415
bolg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 916
Likes (Received): 759

Shame to see it go, would love to have one like it in Stockholm. But wasn't the charm of Time's Square lost a long time ago anyway?

Edit: their consumerism hysteria seems a bit over the top though.
bolg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2014, 01:10 PM   #416
socrates#1fan
Registered User
 
socrates#1fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 2,605
Likes (Received): 1318

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Wow, they're tearing down the Mayfair for such a bland glass blooper?

WTF is wrong with NYC?


http://www.emporis.com/building/701-...rk-city-ny-usa
Wow.. Just wow.

The new building is so vastly inferior it's not even funny. It's a hideous structure, and a beautiful structure will be demolished to make room for it. Typical.

People are not drawn to New York because of its post-modern high-rises, they are drawn to the Empire State Building, the Chrysler, etc. Yet modernists are turning the city into a hideous mix of shard glass and sheet metal that got lost on its way to the dump.
__________________
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

"I donít know what it is about Hoosiers, but wherever you go there is always a Hoosier doing something very important there."-Kurt Vonnegut

Manitopiaaa, DBadger liked this post
socrates#1fan no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2014, 03:16 PM   #417
Vertical_Gotham
Registered User
 
Vertical_Gotham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,437
Likes (Received): 6488

Quote:
Originally Posted by socrates#1fan View Post
Wow.. Just wow. The new building is so vastly inferior it's not even funny. It's a hideous structure, and a beautiful structure will be demolished to make room for it. Typical. People are not drawn to New York because of its post-modern high-rises, they are drawn to the Empire State Building, the Chrysler, etc. Yet modernists are turning the city into a hideous mix of shard glass and sheet metal that got lost on its way to the dump.
Wow. Just wow. That old building is plain ugly covered up in billboards it's not even funny, does NYC look like a shard of glass?? You must be jealous of NYC considering maybe you came from a dump yourself





:Cheers:
__________________
-------------------------



Hudson Yards mega development Map: June 2015
http://i.imgur.com/FVrYwpy.jpg
(click again once inside to enlarge the map)
Vertical_Gotham no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2014, 04:14 PM   #418
erbse
LIBERTINED
 
erbse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: McLenBurg
Posts: 43,340
Likes (Received): 58063

Why are you getting personal? It makes you look inferior in any discussion, mate.


That corner near Times Square was one of the few places in the area you could sniff some of the old flair, and I'm not talking about the smell of fries fat.

The building isn't to blame for being covered in billboards. And most likely the same will happen to this new faceless shard of glass.
__________________
GET FREE!
D W F


🔥 Tradition doesn't mean to look after the ash, but to keep the flame alive! 🔥
erbse no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2014, 04:58 PM   #419
Vertical_Gotham
Registered User
 
Vertical_Gotham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,437
Likes (Received): 6488

Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Why are you getting personal? It makes you look inferior in any discussion, mate. That corner near Times Square was one of the few places in the area you could sniff some of the old flair, and I'm not talking about the smell of fries fat. The building isn't to blame for being covered in billboards. And most likely the same will happen to this new faceless shard of glass.
Lol... Nah mate! Me look inferior? You must be lacking in something for you to think that was an insult.

Making blanket statements and calling NYC dumb or a dump over a particular building(s) really shows intelligence but I should have known better since this thread is about hating NYC so I'm done here in this thread

Cheers
__________________
-------------------------



Hudson Yards mega development Map: June 2015
http://i.imgur.com/FVrYwpy.jpg
(click again once inside to enlarge the map)

hordak1975 liked this post
Vertical_Gotham no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2014, 02:31 PM   #420
Kiboko
hubba hubba
 
Kiboko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 1,462
Likes (Received): 327

Manhattan is stuffed with old brick highrises. The sacrifice a couple of those for the sake of progress is not a bad thing. After all, New York is still a commercial heart of the world, not a museum.
Kiboko no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
nyc photos

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 05:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu