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Old April 24th, 2014, 02:22 AM   #521
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRouchell View Post
The Tyranny of the Glass Boxes, NY Times

ALL board members of the New York Landmarks Preservation Board is appointed by the Mayor. No one person or entity should have the privilege of appointing ALL board members. It is obvious that the current and/or previous mayor(s) have stacked the board with pro developers/anti-preservationists.
Wow, this is utterly abject. Democracy and sincere cultural values, where art thou?
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Old April 24th, 2014, 02:43 AM   #522
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Thank you for sharing the photos here John!

This is utterly sad. What's the NYC way now? Turning the place into an American Tokyo?
Dude. It has ALWAYS been like this, and was in fact worse in decades past. Get over it or be prepared to torture yourself for the rest of your life.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 03:07 AM   #523
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As long as no one touches Chrysler, Woolworth, Flatiron, ESB, 40 Wall, AIG, 20 Exchange place, Rockefeller etc. I'm okay with tearing down old buildings to make way for huge modern skyscrapers.

It's the cycle of life.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 03:41 AM   #524
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NY's lost a gem of an airport terminal.
It may not be classical architecture but it was a historic architectural icon that cannot be replaced.
Pan Am Worldport, 1961 (over 50 years old!)






NYC has entire landmarked districts of pre war buildings, but it isn't focusing enough on the gems of the later years.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 02:45 PM   #525
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NYC airports have an acute space shortage. If you landmark a terminal, which is a strictly functional building that needs to be periodically replaced to fit new patterns and airside practices, you will end up with a useless building in the middle of an airport that badly needs expansion.

That terminal was beautiful, but it became obsolete, it cannot accommodate planes as they are preferable boarded today - with jetways -, and it was built for an era where you needed few if any rigid separation between airside and landside, well before mandatory x-rays and tight security became important.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 10:51 PM   #526
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I'm baffled how numb people turned when it comes to aesthetics.

Btw I agree that terminal is a loss, too. But well, airports probably are the fastest evolving structures ever.
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Old April 24th, 2014, 11:57 PM   #527
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While this is a shame, It is true that it is made to be completely utilitarian, and also, the biggest difference between it an pre war buildings is that it looks like anything built in today's world (to an extent).
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Old April 25th, 2014, 03:22 AM   #528
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I don't know what it takes to deny the uniqueness of that terminal's design.

People cry that a mid-century building has become obsolete, but they never bother to point out that the classical buildings can be over 100 years obsolete. Yet somehow they bring those old buildings up to modern standards.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 04:38 AM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
I don't know what it takes to deny the uniqueness of that terminal's design.

People cry that a mid-century building has become obsolete, but they never bother to point out that the classical buildings can be over 100 years obsolete. Yet somehow they bring those old buildings up to modern standards.
I'm not denying it, while I do agree that it's a tragic loss, my point was that older buildings are more irreplaceable than mid century ones, and the world-port almost seems like something that could have been built recently.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 05:01 AM   #530
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Architecturally that terminal was pretty unique.

However, it was also one of the most god awful terminals I have ever flown out of. The security line blocked the entrances, it was overcrowded, decrepit and birds would fly around crapping on you. It would be nice to see something built that can handle the crowds of 21st century airports. So, I am not really going to miss it.

Eero Saarinen's terminal on the other hand, I have very different opinion on (and happy it has been preserved).
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Old April 25th, 2014, 05:07 AM   #531
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They could have gutted it and redone the layout to fit modern requirements. Or maybe left the roof and most of the original outer walls intact and implemented them into a larger, new terminal, kind of like those facadectomies.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 08:44 AM   #532
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Quote:
Jay
As long as no one touches Chrysler, Woolworth, Flatiron, ESB, 40 Wall, AIG, 20 Exchange place, Rockefeller etc. I'm okay with tearing down old buildings to make way for huge modern skyscrapers.

It's the cycle of life.

I would tend to agree with that but would like also maybe to see an exhaustive list from the city council with the buildings that should remain protected after a democrative debate or so. And carved in stone. I personaly think that quite all Art Deco from the 20s or 30s buildings with more than 7 floors should not be touched. Art Deco is the particular architectural identity of the city. And the limit is often crossed. The building below is a shame is being demolished.

(Owners could be compensated and build elsewhere, what would be the problem for them ?)


Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
And they keep going:




Seriously, WTF NYC?
You'd get lynched in Europe for tearing down such a gem.
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Old April 25th, 2014, 09:38 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
People cry that a mid-century building has become obsolete, but they never bother to point out that the classical buildings can be over 100 years obsolete. Yet somehow they bring those old buildings up to modern standards.
There were not airports in the modern sense 100 years ago.

The Transworld terminal became obsolete because aviation changed a lot, and so did the whole concept of how passenger flows should be managed. Airplanes also got much bigger, and accessibility and comfort requirements meant the preferred access is via jetways, not walking up to movable stairs.

Many industrial buildings become obsolete in their function. That is the case of many factories, for instance: no one is insane to operate a high-volume assembly line in multi-story buildings these days. That would be pure craziness. People can think of other uses for disused factories.

Airports, however, are a very special type of infrastructure: they need, physically, runways to be operable, and nothing else other than airport facilities should be placed around runways. Space for airport facilities come at a premium, no airport can afford the luxury of keeping an empty building on a prime location for a passenger terminal.

This is why terminals are routinely demolished and razed to the ground, and rebuilt. JFK is a global flight hub, it cannot possible afford to write-off the space used by the obsolete terminal.
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Old April 26th, 2014, 02:56 AM   #534
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Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
In 1920, NY looked largely indistinguishable from London, for example.
Absolutely untrue.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 07:00 AM   #535
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Clockwise from the northwest, the following are the buildings composing of the block in question:

331 Madison Avenue, 1911 (expanded in 1924):
http://slgreen.com/properties/view/331-madison-avenue/
http://www.emporis.com/building/char...orkcity-ny-usa

317 Madison Avenue/47 East 42nd Street, 1922:
http://slgreen.com/properties/view/317-madison-avenue/
http://www.emporis.com/building/ligg...orkcity-ny-usa

51 East 42nd Street, 1913:
http://slgreen.com/properties/view/51-east-42nd-street/
http://www.emporis.com/building/vand...rk-city-ny-usa

48 East 43rd Street, 1923:
http://slgreen.com/properties/view/48-east-43rd-street/
http://www.emporis.com/building/48-e...rk-city-ny-usa

All in all, I'm less biased towards One Vanderbilt, and support pushing of the Bloomberg Midtown rezoning plan. However, the facade of 51 East 42nd Street at least should be incorporated into the design. As a component of the old Warren and Wetmore "Terminal City" masterplan, destroying it would be like destroying part of Grand Central Terminal itself. Even the Biltmore and Commodore Hotels still exist, and can be restored to their pre-war appearances if warranted. In fact, the latter is only encased in glass.

Of course, if I may remind everybody of a similar building lost recently some blocks away for a ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by RegentHouse View Post
Madison Plaza Building (original Union Carbide HQ), 1913:

http://collections-static-1.mcny.org...5/MNY15868.jpg

Replaced by 300 Madison, 2003:

http://www.turnasure.com/images/proj...300madison.jpg
I challenge anybody who disagrees to Google Streetview 300 Madison, and still tell me it looks better at street level than 317 Madison Avenue.
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Last edited by RegentHouse; May 23rd, 2014 at 07:06 AM.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 07:36 AM   #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RegentHouse View Post
Clockwise from the northwest, the following are the buildings composing of the block in question:

331 Madison Avenue, 1911 (expanded in 1924):
http://slgreen.com/properties/view/331-madison-avenue/
http://www.emporis.com/building/char...orkcity-ny-usa

317 Madison Avenue/47 East 42nd Street, 1922:
http://slgreen.com/properties/view/317-madison-avenue/
http://www.emporis.com/building/ligg...orkcity-ny-usa

51 East 42nd Street, 1913:
http://slgreen.com/properties/view/51-east-42nd-street/
http://www.emporis.com/building/vand...rk-city-ny-usa

48 East 43rd Street, 1923:
http://slgreen.com/properties/view/48-east-43rd-street/
http://www.emporis.com/building/48-e...rk-city-ny-usa

All in all, I'm less biased towards One Vanderbilt, and support pushing of the Bloomberg Midtown rezoning plan. However, the facade of 51 East 42nd Street at least should be incorporated into the design. As a component of the old Warren and Wetmore "Terminal City" masterplan, destroying it would be like destroying part of Grand Central Terminal itself. Even the Biltmore and Commodore Hotels still exist, and can be restored to their pre-war appearances if warranted. In fact, the latter is only encased in glass.

Of course, if I may remind everybody of a similar building lost recently some blocks away for a ...


I challenge anybody who disagrees to Google Streetview 300 Madison, and still tell me it looks better at street level than 317 Madison Avenue.
Just how can a facade that is now "encased in glass" be restored to its pre-war condition? The glass facade was not installed over the old masonry facade, more likely, the old facade was dismantled and disposed of, and the new glass facade was installed over the old building's frame. There is nothing to restore.
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Old May 23rd, 2014, 09:37 PM   #537
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the building itself is a regular brick box, but it has an array of a beautiful stucco works that can be removed and reused. I can't see how can they incorporate the old facade though...

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Old May 25th, 2014, 04:59 AM   #538
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Another WTF moment for me and again proof that the heritage protection policy in NYC is seriously flawed:

So they can tear down a harmonious gem like this completely unbothered - but a random turd like this remains protected?
For what exactly? (Yeah, role model social housing, blah, blah.)

Landmark Status Could Block Luxury Tower Plans
at Upper East Side Site



Two-thirds of the 190 apartments at the tenements are currently vacant. (First Avenue between 64th and 65th Streets)

For decades, one of New York City’s biggest real estate families has been trying to demolish a pair of historic tenements on the Upper East Side to make way for a luxury apartment tower many times their size.

The fate of the buildings, known as City and Suburban First Avenue Estates, is to be decided by the Landmarks Preservation Commission on Tuesday. More than just a pair of six-story buildings, they have come to represent the growing tension between historic preservation, property rights and the constant clamor for new housing — affordable and otherwise.

The City and Suburban Homes Company built the apartment houses starting in 1898, on First Avenue between 64th and 65th Streets. With relatively large rooms and small courtyards to provide light and air, they were some of the first privately financed models of better tenement dwelling.

The commission’s vote will be one of the last for its departing chair, Robert Tierney, a holdover from the Bloomberg administration. He has taken a particular interest in seeing the case through, since it has been going on throughout his 12-year tenure. Mayor Bill de Blasio has named Meenakshi Srinivasan, who previously served on the Board of Standards and Appeals, to be the new chair.

Complete: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/20/ny...?src=recg&_r=0


Again - come on. WTF? Preservationists, value architectural measures, for once.
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Last edited by erbse; May 27th, 2014 at 01:01 PM.
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Old May 25th, 2014, 06:37 AM   #539
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The "harmonious gem" link in your post is broken
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Old May 25th, 2014, 09:22 AM   #540
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That building used to have a different facade, but the protection was dropped, so the owner replaced the old brick cladding with that crap.
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