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Old May 27th, 2014, 12:07 AM   #541
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Old May 27th, 2014, 12:31 AM   #542
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These external fire staircases are hideous, look very third-world worth.
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Old May 27th, 2014, 01:02 PM   #543
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Alright, I expected it was "renovated" to death. The previous condition surely wasn't all that special. But still, I don't get over the completely bonkers landmark protection measurements in the city.
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Old May 27th, 2014, 01:08 PM   #544
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NIMBYs often try to push last-minute landmark designation not for the sake of the building that would be demolished, but to prevent something else from being built there. It is the only practical tool they have to stifle development of high-rises, and they use it.
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Old May 27th, 2014, 01:12 PM   #545
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Alright, I expected it was "renovated" to death. The previous condition surely wasn't all that special. But still, I don't get over the completely bonkers landmark protection measurements in the city.
That's because you don't landmark buildings because they're beautiful, but because they're historical and have a particular value.
Quote from a few posts ago:

Quote:
The City and Suburban Homes Company built the apartment houses starting in 1898, on First Avenue between 64th and 65th Streets. With relatively large rooms and small courtyards to provide light and air, they were some of the first privately financed models of better tenement dwelling.
May this be the reason why they were landmarked? However, I think the renovation largely removed its historical value because you can't see how these apartments were designed at first.
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Old May 27th, 2014, 06:13 PM   #546
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These external fire staircases are hideous, look very third-world worth.
Funny, I actually kind of like the look of fire escapes on the buildings
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Old May 27th, 2014, 08:08 PM   #547
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The fire escapes of NYC are what makes its cityscape, to a great degree. They're structurally interesting. And frankly, I don't know these from most "poor" countries I've been to, they rather have some straight ladders scattered across the exterior, at best.

Jasper90: Sure, I've read that. And it'd be understandable indeed if it remained in its original condition. But that way I just don't get behind it really. Oh and artistically beautiful/thoughtful buildings are landmarked around the world - and should be.
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Old May 27th, 2014, 08:52 PM   #548
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Originally Posted by erbse View Post
The fire escapes of NYC are what makes its cityscape, to a great degree. They're structurally interesting. And frankly, I don't know these from most "poor" countries I've been to, they rather have some straight ladders scattered across the exterior, at best.

Jasper90: Sure, I've read that. And it'd be understandable indeed if it remained in its original condition. But that way I just don't get behind it really. Oh and artistically beautiful/thoughtful buildings are landmarked around the world - and should be.
Sure, but that's because most historical buildings are also beautiful. Otherwise, if they were poorly designed, they'd probably have been demolished when they were still not historical. It's obviously not always true, but it happens often

This is more or less the Italian way into preservation. It's more important to landmark a modern building which is perceived as "ugly" if it's one of a kind, rather than 1000 identical Art-Nouveau buildings. When in doubt, we usually preserve everything, even when it becomes extremely costly.
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Old May 27th, 2014, 09:13 PM   #549
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Historical preservation should be limited to a small % of total buildings in a city. Like 5% maximum (considering footprint, total area, lot size or other criteria). If the maximum limit is reached, to landmark a new building, authorities would have to release other old building into the general market, allowing it to be disfigured/demolished/replaced.
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Old May 27th, 2014, 10:27 PM   #550
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Quote:
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Historical preservation should be limited to a small % of total buildings in a city. Like 5% maximum (considering footprint, total area, lot size or other criteria). If the maximum limit is reached, to landmark a new building, authorities would have to release other old building into the general market, allowing it to be disfigured/demolished/replaced.
I was never going to like your post, and I've unliked it. I wanted to quote you..

Here you go again with your obsession to demolish historical landmarks in favour of modernisation and infrastructure. You've made references a few times now to destroy historical Italian city centres in order to build a ******* motorway through it. I'm going to ask you for once and for all now: Why!!!????!!!!
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Old May 27th, 2014, 11:15 PM   #551
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Suburbanist is a junkie hooked on Corbusier's needle forever. There's no way you can get behind it in a rational way, because it's just bonkers. He's trolling.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 04:17 AM   #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNB30 View Post
Funny, I actually kind of like the look of fire escapes on the buildings
I dislike fire escapes - they are associated for me with unattractive but necessary (at the time) additions to buildings that did not provide the required internal escape routs.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 04:20 AM   #553
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Suburbanist is a junkie hooked on Corbusier's needle forever. There's no way you can get behind it in a rational way, because it's just bonkers. He's trolling.
I just think newer buildings are generally better than old buildings, and that most buildings should have a shorter life span (like no more than 60-70 years), so that when time comes, they are demolished and replaced. Only a limited set of structures should be preserved for long time.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 04:21 AM   #554
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NY's lost a gem of an airport terminal.
It may not be classical architecture but it was a historic architectural icon that cannot be replaced.
Pan Am Worldport, 1961 (over 50 years old!)


NYC has entire landmarked districts of pre war buildings, but it isn't focusing enough on the gems of the later years.
I like it because it is a representative of populuxe - the streamlined, aerodynamic design of the early postwar boom years in the US. It symbolizes a US that doesn't exist anymore.

I'm sorry to see it go but I don't think it is beautiful. It has symbolic interest.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 04:26 AM   #555
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn View Post

The San Remo:

Source: Manhattan Scout

There are many other notable buildings on the Upper West Side and countless hidden "gems" (for lack of a better word). So once again, I don't think you can say the Upper West Side isn't a central part of NYC. Furthermore, I think its fair to say that this neighborhood has been well preserved in terms of its historic character.
So beautiful.

And I certainly agree with your about the upper west side
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Old May 28th, 2014, 04:31 AM   #556
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Quote:
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These external fire staircases are hideous, look very third-world worth.
I dislike them too - but they are not third-world. They became commonly used in Manhattan, the Bronx and Brooklyn as a way of assuring that fires did not kill large numbers in a very rapidly growing city. So it was a symbol of progress at the time.

But they do definitely have a 'class identity' aspect to them.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 04:44 AM   #557
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
I was never going to like your post, and I've unliked it. I wanted to quote you..

Here you go again with your obsession to demolish historical landmarks in favour of modernisation and infrastructure. You've made references a few times now to destroy historical Italian city centres in order to build a ******* motorway through it. I'm going to ask you for once and for all now: Why!!!????!!!!
Well, someone kinda did that, even though the demolitions were rather limited.
Here's the "Sopraelevata" in Genova, Italy
There are plans to build an underwater tunnel with larger capacity and demolish this street, I hope they'll be carried out soon. This street is so bad that it has somehow become fascinating in a perverse way.


Genova - Sotto la neve 2006 di Cebete, su Flickr


Genova - Pescherecci di Willcorit, su Flickr


ge-piazza caricamento e via gramsci:water front di Roberto Narducci, su Flickr
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Old May 28th, 2014, 04:54 AM   #558
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New Yoek is enhanced, rather than degraded, by the presence of urban freeways like the FDR Parkway or the Long Island Expressway

They had awesome plans for more Manhattan highways, like the Lower Manhattan Expressway. Too bad it didn't get built



Has this highway been built, the clearance of filth, grit and decay from many areas in Lower Manhattan would have happened in the 1960s, instead of the 1990s.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 11:14 AM   #559
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^You really are a comedian aren't you, a talentless provoker.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 11:50 AM   #560
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He throws his garbage all over the place like that. I think he stopped his medication, because it's getting worse.
He has no respect for culture or making a city livable.
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