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Old May 28th, 2014, 01:12 PM   #561
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I think Suburbanist actually is on our side and a down-to-the-core preservationist/classical architecture campaigner.

He just uses this kind of ridiculous cliché modernist arguments, to ridicule the modernist movement even more than all their crappy work in our cities already does.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 11:12 PM   #562
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Has this highway been built, the clearance of filth, grit and decay from many areas in Lower Manhattan would have happened in the 1960s, instead of the 1990s.
In Lower Manhattan? Upper Manhattan and parts of midtown in the 60s and especially the 70s - yes, I certainly agree. But what parts of Lower Manhattan were filthy and decaying? Wall Street? Battery Park? Tribeca? Greenwich Village? Washington Square?
Seedy in some ways, yes - but filthy?

I don't know where you are from - but how well do you know Manhattan?
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Old May 28th, 2014, 11:13 PM   #563
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I just think newer buildings are generally better than old buildings, and that most buildings should have a shorter life span (like no more than 60-70 years), so that when time comes, they are demolished and replaced. Only a limited set of structures should be preserved for long time.
What?
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Old May 28th, 2014, 11:39 PM   #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyR View Post
In Lower Manhattan? Upper Manhattan and parts of midtown in the 60s and especially the 70s - yes, I certainly agree. But what parts of Lower Manhattan were filthy and decaying? Wall Street? Battery Park? Tribeca? Greenwich Village? Washington Square?
Seedy in some ways, yes - but filthy?

I don't know where you are from - but how well do you know Manhattan?
He's from Brazil but lives in the Netherlands. He is here to tell the world that all (historic) city centres is to be demolished and to be replaced with motorways.
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Old May 28th, 2014, 11:53 PM   #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyR View Post
In Lower Manhattan? Upper Manhattan and parts of midtown in the 60s and especially the 70s - yes, I certainly agree. But what parts of Lower Manhattan were filthy and decaying? Wall Street? Battery Park? Tribeca? Greenwich Village? Washington Square?
Seedy in some ways, yes - but filthy?

I don't know where you are from - but how well do you know Manhattan?
I've visited the island a few times.

What I mean are areas that are now called "SoHo" or "NoLiTa" used to be full of decayed buildings, dilapidated tenements, decrepit former industrial buildings etc. Or so I read and saw pics.

Hundreds of these would have been demolished to build this highway.
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Old May 29th, 2014, 12:08 AM   #566
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You're talking about the areas around Broadway, Canal Street, China Town the Village and Little Italy.
The areas that has made Manhattan! You and your ****** highways!!!
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Old May 29th, 2014, 12:28 AM   #567
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I dont know what you people expect from Americans - mixture of Cowboys, Indians, Africans and Jews with loaded guns and death penalty. They are not like Leonardo Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Albrecht Dürer, Mozzart, Tchaikovsky...
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Old May 29th, 2014, 12:36 AM   #568
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I dont know what you people expect from Americans - mixture of Cowboys, Indians, Africans and Jews with loaded guns and death penalty. They are not like Leonardo Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Albrecht Dürer, Mozzart, Tchaikovsky...
What? This thread is about NYC. You got off at the wrong stop...

And the spelling is Mozart.
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Old May 29th, 2014, 12:39 AM   #569
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I dont know what you people expect from Americans - mixture of Cowboys, Indians, Africans and Jews with loaded guns and death penalty. They are not like Leonardo Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Albrecht Dürer, Mozzart, Tchaikovsky...

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Old May 29th, 2014, 06:08 AM   #570
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If the City and Suburban First Avenue Estates were demolished today and replaced by an apartment tower block like the post-war ones which line York Avenue, I couldn't care less.

As for the freeways, I partially agree with Suburbanist. Considering his username, I'm not surprised he admires the Robert Moses freeways. After all, Moses is usually considered the father of sprawl. Regardless, the area the Lower Manhattan Expressway would have ran straight through became absolute crap right after Jane Jacobs manifested that Greenwich Village was a great community. Clearing the entire neighborhood wouldn't even have been commensurate to the destruction of Pennsylvania Station, or any high-rises demolished within the past ten years.
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Old May 29th, 2014, 08:22 PM   #571
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Has this highway been built, the clearance of filth, grit and decay from many areas in Lower Manhattan would have happened in the 1960s, instead of the 1990s.
Considering the area's contribution to Western culture since the 1960s, I'm glad the activists got their will through.
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Old May 30th, 2014, 01:03 AM   #572
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Umm, beatniks/hippies/hipsters are the antithesis of Western culture. The whole basis of their ideology is counter-cultural, thus rejecting the very stuff which made NYC, America, and ultimately Western civilization so great. You must be just as misinformed about how the world works as them.
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Old May 31st, 2014, 12:06 AM   #573
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Yet their work is part of western culture. I think you'll find that much of western culture is in fact a criticism of western society, materialism and global capitalism etc. Sure some of them were pretentious hippies, but many were very informed and critcial thinkers and artists.
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Old May 31st, 2014, 12:43 AM   #574
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America's cultural and historical origins are counter-cultural. What were the Puritans? They rejected and were rejected by European society.
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Old May 31st, 2014, 03:15 AM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bricks View Post
Yet their work is part of western culture. I think you'll find that much of western culture is in fact a criticism of western society, materialism and global capitalism etc. Sure some of them were pretentious hippies, but many were very informed and critcial thinkers and artists.
All culture is influenced by individual critical thinking, but that doesn't mean everything is abandoned in favor of something completely different.

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America's cultural and historical origins are counter-cultural. What were the Puritans? They rejected and were rejected by European society.
Um, no... America's cultural and historical origins were the British colonialists. The Puritans were merely one of the first groups of isolated settlers. Also, many settled in the Netherlands as well.
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Old May 31st, 2014, 01:08 PM   #576
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Demolishing residential buildings doesn't mean "killing the culture".
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Old May 31st, 2014, 01:19 PM   #577
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Flattening whole areas and replacing them with motorways goes beyond that. It's terrorism.
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Old June 1st, 2014, 01:26 AM   #578
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Quote:
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Demolishing residential buildings doesn't mean "killing the culture".
But wiping out Huge swaths of large communities is killing communities, as well as the culture of that community. Furthermore, I think part of what erbse is referring to is the fact that the counter culture of lower Manhattan probably would have not grown if highways were built there. Ex, SoHo probably would not be what it is today. Furthermore, being obsessed with older urban architecture, especially Victorian architecture, as well as HUGE fan of traditional Urban planning, I personally find the idea of bulldozing the buildings of SoHo, and the Lower East side (possibly my favorites in the world), to be down-right mortifying!
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Old June 1st, 2014, 01:28 AM   #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RegentHouse View Post
Umm, beatniks/hippies/hipsters are the antithesis of Western culture. The whole basis of their ideology is counter-cultural, thus rejecting the very stuff which made NYC, America, and ultimately Western civilization so great. You must be just as misinformed about how the world works as them.
WOW it's a shame people like you see such counter-cultural movements a being the exact opposite of "great".
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Old June 1st, 2014, 01:35 AM   #580
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Flattening whole areas and replacing them with motorways goes beyond that. It's terrorism.
Dang If only the U.S. lived up to their "we don't negotiate with terrorists" motto in the 50s, and 60s
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