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Old November 10th, 2012, 10:42 PM   #141
WrightTurn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
In 1920, NY looked largely indistinguishable from London, for example. This was what 5th Ave in Midtown once looked like:

image hosted on flickr



That being said, most of the destruction occurred in Midtown and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Aves on the UES. Other than those limited areas, the overwhelming majority of Manhattan and Brooklyn is dominated by areas with a sea of old structures. Unlike Midtown, Most of those areas are landmarked.
Oh no it didn't.

Unless London was somehow full of early skyscrapers and French-style Beaux Arts buildings laid out on a grid.

New York hasn't looked like London since it started using brownstone. Later developments looked about as much like London as they did Santa Fe.
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Old November 10th, 2012, 11:34 PM   #142
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I meant in terms of having old, low-rise buildings. There were very few skyscrapers in midtown in 1920.

5th ave in the 50s


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Old November 10th, 2012, 11:40 PM   #143
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^Except things aren't as classy as they used to be, hence Niketown. Hell, even in the 50s and 60s, most people still dressed well.
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Old November 11th, 2012, 05:04 PM   #144
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That photo was from the 1880s, not the 50s
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Old November 12th, 2012, 04:48 AM   #145
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for nice city to ugly city , bad idea
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Old November 12th, 2012, 08:03 PM   #146
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Quoting this post via Eidolon @ SSP, an article I figure those reading this thread will appreciate:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eidolon View Post
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...n/#more-439713

A 19th-Century Dividend at a 21st-Century Station

By DAVID W. DUNLAP
November 9, 2012

Quote:
The brightest new architectural addition to Lower Manhattan is now emerging from its cocoon of scaffolding, 124 years after construction began.

No, this isn’t another post about the World Trade Center project.

It is about the Corbin Building, a sumptuous nine-story Romanesque Revival tower that was built from 1888 to 1889. Its future was imperiled in July 2003 when the Metropolitan Transportation Authority began developing plans for the Fulton Street Transit Center on the same block.

At the time, it was by no means certain that the Corbin Building would be left standing. Indeed, there seemed — on the face of it — to be little reason even to try. Why go to the trouble and expense ($59 million, as it turned out) of grafting a decrepit, inefficient, obsolete office tower on to a modern transit interchange and shopping mall?

Yet, the Corbin Building had many things in its favor, beginning with the arrestingly robust design by Francis Hatch Kimball, among the more imaginative New York architects of his day. On his death in 1919, The New York Times said he was “often spoken of as ‘the father of the skyscraper.’” The namesake of the building, Austin Corbin, had united a tangle of small railroads on Long Island into the colossus of the Long Island Rail Road.


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Old November 13th, 2012, 05:22 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
Let's talk about NYC's recent trend to sacrifice its historical heritage and flair due to greedy investors pulling up soulless modernist buildings.

Please add more examples and join the controversial discussion!



The honor of being the thread opener goes to:

432-Park-Tower!

It's screwing up the whole skyline of Midtown Manhattan. And as if that wouldn't be enough, a whole intact block with a historical highrise and neat townhouses was torn down for this abomination. While they could easily have been integrated into the complex, as happened at so many other places. I'll introduce them after showing some visualizations...

432 Park is the long drawn-out, badly proportioned, concrete facade stalk to the left here...

image hosted on flickr

by SSC User sbarn

And these intact, vital, original Manhattan gems were all torn down for this ^ monstrous madness!
Goodbye Drake Hotel and neat townhouses, welcome greed and ugliness!







The news that 432 Park is going to have a concrete facade at that height is just frightening.
I told you how this thing will be horrible by any means. Now it's not only the proportions, but also an ill-bred cladding! I've never seen any good modernist tower featuring an exposed concrete facade.

And they've torn a beautiful ensemble with Drake hotel and historical townhouses for it!
I'm getting really mad at NYC. And what they're doing to their heritage that is global architectural heritage, too!
2) Yes, losing Penn Station and other incredible prewar was horrible. But without demolition of some historic structures, Manhattan would be a frozen museum and wouldn't be the iconic and vertical urban center it is today.

3) You are completely clueless about New York City and its extensive landmarking process. Large swaths of Manhattan (and other boroughs) fall within Landmark Districts that provide incredible strict rules of what can be built, not to mention replaced. Much of the city has in fact has been preserved. HERE is a link to maps of all the Landmarks districts in NYC.

Last edited by erbse; November 13th, 2012 at 02:57 PM.
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Old November 13th, 2012, 07:10 AM   #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
2) Yes, losing Penn Station and other incredible prewar was horrible. But without demolition of some historic structures, Manhattan would be a frozen museum and wouldn't be the iconic and vertical urban center it is today.
It seemed iconic at the time...


http://www.rebirthman.de/newyork/new...ridge_1928.jpg

Yes, it's important to continue forward, but demolishing what is already an iconic high-rise for a concrete post isn't very good for the city's image. It would have made much more sense demolishing the boring box next door or more low-rises.

Last edited by RegentHouse; December 14th, 2012 at 09:50 AM. Reason: Added image source
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Old November 13th, 2012, 02:59 PM   #149
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Some areas of NYC look like you had a freaking war there, while there never was.


As a German, that lost much of the city's heritage, you get a whole different sense of what's worth being preserved. NYC didn't preserve enough of its grand past. Despite all the landmarked zones.
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Old November 18th, 2012, 11:40 PM   #150
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I feel the need to put this thread in perspective. A few headlines from the past year or so, I'll post some more.

As Harlem continues to gentrify an increasing area will get landmarked, Historic Push Begins for Harlem Landmarking.

The second one was approved, and can be viewed on the LPC website, it is the Crown Heights North Phase II.

The last one is in addition to the existing historically landmarked buildings and neighborhoods in the immediate vicinity. On the map below you can even see a bit of the Noho Landmark neighborhood on the lower left.


Harlem Plays Catch-Up with 9 Proposed Historic Districts
Friday, May 11, 2012, by Dave Hogarty



"Harlem is significantly lacking in historic districts and landmarking in comparison to other neighborhoods in the city, so Community Board 10 released a report outlining a plan for historic preservation [pdf] and the establishment of 9 new or expanded historic districts within its borders..."

LPC Seeks Big Landmark Expansions; Wants to Buck Procro
Tuesday, June 28, 2011, by Bilal Khan



"The Landmarks Preservation Commission is really on a roll today, they're seeking to landmark or at least progress designations for over 1,700 buildings. That's the most since 1990, when they landmarked 2,020 buildings on the Upper West Side! So what's on their agenda?

The big story of the day is the vote on expanding the Crown Heights North II Historic District. They want to landmark 640 buildings in addition to the 472 that are already landmarked. This big chunk of rowhouses, freestanding houses and apartment buildings were built between 1870 and 1920..."

East Village/Lower East Side Historic District Approved
Tuesday, October 9, 2012, by Jeremiah Budin



"The Landmarks Preservation Commission concluded its six-year consideration of the proposed East Village/Lower East Side Historic District today, voting nearly unanimously in favor of its approval... Regardless, approval was at this point pretty much a foregone conclusion, and the other commissioners seemed thrilled to grant protected status to over 300 century-old buildings..."

An idea of what is getting landmarked.


http://gvshp.org/blog/2012/09/21/fin...+from+GVSHP%29
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Old November 19th, 2012, 12:21 AM   #151
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Two more that caught my eye, simply for their sheer size. I could post stuff like this all day. Anyone who even hints at the idea that NY, and its citizens don't do enough to protect the cities architectural past just simply has no idea what they're talking about.

Park Slope Historic District Becomes City's Biggest

July 25, 2012 7:58pm | By Leslie Albrecht, DNAinfo Reporter/Producer



"... Park Slope, already home to the biggest historic district in Brooklyn, now contains the largest contiguous swath of protected buildings in the entire city.

The city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission approved a 600-property extension to the Park Slope Historic District on Tuesday, creating an unbroken stretch of 2,575 buildings — more than the historic districts in Greenwich Village (2,315 buildings) and the Upper West Side (2,020 buildings)..."



Huge New UWS Historic District Surprises Even Preservationists
Thursday, September 16, 2010, by Joey Arak

"Though West End Avenue already has five small historic districts protecting many pre-war buildings, some folks feel that isn't enough. They don't want slices kept safe from developers, they want the whole pie taken off the windowsill. Led by a group called the West End Preservation Society, Upper West Side preservationists have been pushing hard to establish a historic district protecting all of West End Avenue from 70th Street to 109th Street.

... The stitching together and expansion of the existing historic districts would cover 745 additional buildings on West End Avenue and various sidestreets..."



Part of the Riverside-West End Historic District Wins Approval
Tuesday, June 26, 2012, by Jessica Dailey

"Chalk one up for the preservationists: a chunk of the long-sought Riverside-West End Historic District won approval this morning. The mega-district is split into three sections, spanning 70th to 109th Street, and the section approved today covers between 79th and 87th Streets from Riverside Drive to Broadway...



The LPC also approved a new historic district on Park Place in Crown Heights, preserving 13 Romanesque-style rowhouses built in 1894. This district is also part of a larger proposal, the Crow Hill Historic District. This afternoon, the Commission is holding a hearing for the proposed East Village-Lower East Side Historic District, which runs along Second Avenue from East 2nd Street to East 7th Street and includes adjacent side streets, for a total 330 buildings. We'll be covering the meeting, so stay tuned for more info!"
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Old November 19th, 2012, 01:33 AM   #152
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Wait... these weren't already historic districts??????
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Old November 21st, 2012, 07:13 AM   #153
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Seriously yankeesfan1000, I wouldn't mind if all that was destroyed by Moses if so many beautiful Midtown high-rises weren't constantly being destroyed (AGAIN, DRAKE HOTEL).

Apart from that, you still failed to provide any examples of good historic preservation concerning high-profile buildings. All you talk about are messy neighborhoods that could use some re-development for consistency.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 10:34 AM   #154
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I agree. The preservation issue of Manhattan ain't to be found in those neighborhoods, but in the high-density areas where some of the last beautiful ensembles of historical highrises and townhouses are disappearing. That's what made the charm of large swathes of the skyscraper ocean of Manhattan.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 04:35 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
I agree. The preservation issue of Manhattan ain't to be found in those neighborhoods, but in the high-density areas where some of the last beautiful ensembles of historical highrises and townhouses are disappearing. That's what made the charm of large swathes of the skyscraper ocean of Manhattan.
Do you mean places like Murray hill?
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Old November 21st, 2012, 06:19 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erbse View Post
I agree. The preservation issue of Manhattan ain't to be found in those neighborhoods, but in the high-density areas where some of the last beautiful ensembles of historical highrises and townhouses are disappearing. That's what made the charm of large swathes of the skyscraper ocean of Manhattan.
I don't follow. The Upper West Side likely has a higher population density than Midtown.

Some photos of West End Avenue and the proposed Historic Districts:

image hosted on flickr

msnyc111

image hosted on flickr

Otterman56

image hosted on flickr

*cakebitches*

Last edited by sbarn; November 21st, 2012 at 06:33 PM.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 06:35 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RegentHouse View Post
Seriously yankeesfan1000, I wouldn't mind if all that was destroyed by Moses if so many beautiful Midtown high-rises weren't constantly being destroyed (AGAIN, DRAKE HOTEL).

Apart from that, you still failed to provide any examples of good historic preservation concerning high-profile buildings. All you talk about are messy neighborhoods that could use some re-development for consistency.
You clearly don't know NYC very well. The Upper West Side is NOT in need of redevelopment.
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Old November 21st, 2012, 06:53 PM   #158
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Another great historic district is the Ladies Mile, which covers much of the Flatiron District and lower 5th Avenue. Many of these buildings were the most prominent department stores of the early 20th century.

image hosted on flickr

wallyg

image hosted on flickr

Dave Pinter

image hosted on flickr

lumierefl
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Old November 21st, 2012, 07:10 PM   #159
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And are still prominent department stores today
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Old November 21st, 2012, 07:12 PM   #160
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Edit: Great photos sbarn. Lower 5th Avenue is so well preserved, it really is incredible, and one of the my favorite stretches in the entire city. Some of the buildings look very Tribeca or Soho-ish. I live in that general area, and worked a block from that building in the last photo with gold dome, and people need to realize those photos are not cherry picking a one or two block stretch that look pretty, those photos are very accurate representations of what large stretches of what particularly 5th Avenue looks like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RegentHouse View Post
Seriously yankeesfan1000, I wouldn't mind if all that was destroyed by Moses if so many beautiful Midtown high-rises weren't constantly being destroyed (AGAIN, DRAKE HOTEL).

Apart from that, you still failed to provide any examples of good historic preservation concerning high-profile buildings. All you talk about are messy neighborhoods that could use some re-development for consistency.
You say "if so many beautiful Midtown high-rises weren't constantly being destroyed," and then provide one example. If it's a constant problem, then provide other examples. I live here, you're grossly exaggerating the issue.

In regard to good historic preservation, scroll up and look at what's been done with the Corbin Building.

In regards to your last sentence, so you're okay with this being redeveloped? Because what's pictured is exactly like what was landmarked.

Park Slope:

image hosted on flickr

http://brooklynhistory.org/blog/tag/park-slope/

Or this...

East Village:


http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/2011...-300-buildings

Or...

Harlem:


http://www.greatrealtyusa.com/realtors/NY/Harlem.htm

Last edited by yankeesfan1000; November 21st, 2012 at 07:23 PM.
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